The Other Side Of The Mirror - A Re-Evaluation?

[louielouie2000]

I've always called OSOTM a "mood album"... I really have to be in the mood to hear it! There are quite a few aspects of the album I do truly like, though. It's the closest thing Stevie's ever done to a concept album (and I do love a concept album!). Because of that, you might even be able to call OSOTM her most consistent work. I really do go back and forth on what I think of the theme of the album, though. Being a Stevie fan, of COURSE I adore the mysticism this album heaps on. But there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. In that aspect, it almost comes across as cliche and unimaginative. Like I started out with, when I'm in the mood to hear this album, nothing's better. But most of the time it's just a bit too over the top in it's ultra concentrated Stevieness for me. I love the album, but I just have to take it in small doses, spread very far apart.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I've always called OSOTM a "mood album"... I really have to be in the mood to hear it! There are quite a few aspects of the album I do truly like, though. It's the closest thing Stevie's ever done to a concept album (and I do love a concept album!). Because of that, you might even be able to call OSOTM her most consistent work. I really do go back and forth on what I think of the theme of the album, though. Being a Stevie fan, of COURSE I adore the mysticism this album heaps on. But there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. In that aspect, it almost comes across as cliche and unimaginative. Like I started out with, when I'm in the mood to hear this album, nothing's better. But most of the time it's just a bit too over the top in it's ultra concentrated Stevieness for me. I love the album, but I just have to take it in small doses, spread very far apart.

That album to me just seemed like she didn't try. Her vocals to me were soooo lazy and the synth production was just wrong.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

I'm a Stevie Nicks fan because of Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, this album and some singles. I stayed with her because of her earlier work and because of Fleetwood Mac. I don't support garbage and I'm not the type to feed into her making more of it.

This is your problem though Jondalar. You're not saying "in my opinion this" or "I feel this way", you're saying "I don't support garbage" as in "I think it's garbage therefore IT IS". Like I've said before, you're projecting what's just your opinion as Real Truth and it's not.

The closest we can get to objectively critiquing Nicks albums is by combining factors like critical reviews, chart performance, sales, number and success of singles, and even those factors can be impacted by things that have nothing to do with album quality: For example, In Your Dreams might well not go Gold, not because its a bad album but simply because hardly anyone's albums go Gold these days.

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

I'm a Stevie Nicks fan because of Bella Donna, The Wild Heart, this album and some singles. I stayed with her because of her earlier work and because of Fleetwood Mac. I don't support garbage and I'm not the type to feed into her making more of it.

Yet you like the new album j/k

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by tabruns

This is your problem though Jondalar. You're not saying "in my opinion this" or "I feel this way", you're saying "I don't support garbage" as in "I think it's garbage therefore IT IS". Like I've said before, you're projecting what's just your opinion as Real Truth and it's not.

The closest we can get to objectively critiquing Nicks albums is by combining factors like critical reviews, chart performance, sales, number and success of singles, and even those factors can be impacted by things that have nothing to do with album quality: For example, In Your Dreams might well not go Gold, not because its a bad album but simply because hardly anyone's albums go Gold these days.

No matter how try to make it out like I'm quantifying things, it was a loaded stinker. Yet, knowing that she had more in her, over the years I bought about 8 copies of it so that she would get the support she needed to make another album. I also did this with Street Angel which reaked and TISL, which I didn't exactly hate, but couldn't not support by saying it was actually good.

You are living in some falsehood that Stevie does not care about sales or they don't matter. I know how she is. I read the interviews, watched the youtube videos. She is motivated by status and sells. So is her record company. She needs to get the sales to have the emotional and financial support to make a REAL record, which I knew she could and has.

As far as The Other Side of the Mirror is concerned, a twelve year old could of written it and produced it on a synthesizor. It reaked of self-indulgence, especially vocally. She didn't even try. It's not the fact that she didn't even try, I could not get over the fact that she actually released it. Did she think her fans would accept any pile of pooh? Yes, she did and she got slapped down for it like she should. Her career decline was her own doing.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

No matter how try to make it out like I'm quantifying things, it was a loaded stinker. Yet, knowing that she had more in her, over the years I bought about 8 copies of it so that she would get the support she needed to make another album. I also did this with Street Angel which reaked and TISL, which I didn't exactly hate, but couldn't not support by saying it was actually good.

You are living in some falsehood that Stevie does not care about sales or they don't matter. I know how she is. I read the interviews, watched the youtube videos. She is motivated by status and sells. So is her record company. She needs to get the sales to have the emotional and financial support to make a REAL record, which I knew she could and has.

As far as The Other Side of the Mirror is concerned, a twelve year old could of written it and produced it on a synthesizor. It reaked of self-indulgence, especially vocally. She didn't even try. It's not the fact that she didn't even try, I could not get over the fact that she actually released it. Did she think her fans would accept any pile of pooh? Yes, she did and she got slapped down for it like she should. Her career decline was her own doing.

Wow, you just jump to so many amazing conclusions.

"You are living in a falsehood that Stevie does not care about sales". I never said anything about whether SHE cares. I have no idea whether she does or doesn't, and wouldn't presume to know. I'm not making the argument that she doesn't care at all. I'm making the argument that other than some statistics of "success" everything else is PURE opinion and you keep asserting your OPINION as if its well known fact.

"I know how she is". You know Stevie Nicks personally? You're actually doing here what you just falsely accused me of doing. You're asserting her point of view when you don't really know her, something you claimed I was doing when I wasn't.

Your hatred of TOSOTM is fine in that you are free to like or dislike whatever you want, but you keep seeming to think that you have to somehow "prove" that your opinion is THE FACT. For some reason you can't just leave it be that you hate the album but others love it. You also keep asserting that TOSOTM led to her career decline, when critically it was actually treated similarly to her previous three albums. As I've pointed out before, if you look at Rolling Stone in particular they actually rated TOSOTM slightly higher than they had TWH and RAL. The album charted higher than RAL did, and the album went Platinum. None of these facts means that you have to like it or that you're "wrong" to not like, but they do mean that maybe the album wasn't the career-killing mess that you keep wanting to make it into.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

She is motivated by status and sells. So is her record company. She needs to get the sales to have the emotional and financial support to make a REAL record, which I knew she could and has.

Not necessarily true. Stevie has come to understand how "fragmented" the record business is today. I don't think she's as hung up on sales as much as the record company is. Most artists get paid before they even make the record. Then of course there are residuals. Also... when you cut a record I believe you only get paid up to 10 or 11 songs. So that would mean Stevie would have no reason to put 13 or 14 tracks on her album if she was motivated by sales alone. Stevie knows she has fans, she knows that the fans support her. I don't think she would ever say "Well I'm not going to make this record because it won't sell." Sure money and sales are a factor, but not necessarily the whole motivation.

[Kooch68]

Tabruns! Thank you for pointing that fact out...It seems so many fans project their feelings as "gospel" when in fact its just their opinion......Opinions are fine as long as they are stated as such.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by tabruns

Wow, you just jump to so many amazing conclusions.

"You are living in a falsehood that Stevie does not care about sales". I never said anything about whether SHE cares. I have no idea whether she does or doesn't, and wouldn't presume to know. I'm not making the argument that she doesn't care at all. I'm making the argument that other than some statistics of "success" everything else is PURE opinion and you keep asserting your OPINION as if its well known fact.

"I know how she is". You know Stevie Nicks personally? You're actually doing here what you just falsely accused me of doing. You're asserting her point of view when you don't really know here, something you claimed I was doing when I wasn't.

Your hatred of TOSOTM is fine in that you are free to like or dislike whatever you want, but you keep seeming to think that you have to somehow "prove" that your opinion is THE FACT. For some reason you can't just leave it be that you hate the album but others love it. You also keep asserting that TOSOTM led to her career decline, when critically it was actually treated similarly to her previous three albums. As I've pointed out before, if you look at Rolling Stone in particular they actually rated TOSOTM slightly higher than they had TWH and RAL. The album charted higher than RAL did, and the album went Platinum. None of these facts means that you have to like it or that you're "wrong" to not like, but they do mean that maybe the album wasn't the career-killing mess that you keep wanting to make it into.

It went platinum after the Dance, just like Street Angel went Gold and Timespace went Platinum. That was all about The Dance. It wouldn't of happened without the Dance. And Stevie, not going Platinum in 1989 was a lot more devasting than not reaching Gold status with Street Angel. She just came off Tango. The album charted higher than RAL because 1985 and 86 was a lot more competive than 1989 and she came off of Tango. She should of managed to go platinum. Bad word of mouth and no singles killed it. RS suddenly gives Stevie one more good rating (TISL) AFTER THE DANCE. After Sheryl Crow, Coutney Love come out in her defense... Oh and by the way critic darling Sheryl Crown and John Shanks are producing the album. Bah.

Yeah, I have re-evaluated TOSOTM and it still sucks.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Not necessarily true. Stevie has come to understand how "fragmented" the record business is today. I don't think she's as hung up on sales as much as the record company is. Most artists get paid before they even make the record. Then of course there are residuals. Also... when you cut a record I believe you only get paid up to 10 or 11 songs. So that would mean Stevie would have no reason to put 13 or 14 tracks on her album if she was motivated by sales alone. Stevie knows she has fans, she knows that the fans support her. I don't think she would ever say "Well I'm not going to make this record because it won't sell." Sure money and sales are a factor, but not necessarily the whole motivation.

You're talking about this album. This about the past.

[tabruns]

Originally Posted by Kooch68

Tabruns! Thank you for pointing that fact out...It seems so many fans project their feelings as "gospel" when in fact its just their opinion......Opinions are fine as long as they are stated as such.

Thanks Kooch.

I do have to say I've seen Jondalar make some very interesting points on other issues so I'm not trying to dismiss his take on TOSOTM, which is a valid point of view. I'm just stressing to him that it's a point of view. I am very opinionated myself so I know that its really easy to come across as "my way or the highway" when that's not really how you intend it.

[AliceLover]

Originally Posted by tabruns

Wow, you just jump to so many amazing conclusions.

"You are living in a falsehood that Stevie does not care about sales". I never said anything about whether SHE cares. I have no idea whether she does or doesn't, and wouldn't presume to know. I'm not making the argument that she doesn't care at all. I'm making the argument that other than some statistics of "success" everything else is PURE opinion and you keep asserting your OPINION as if its well known fact.

"I know how she is". You know Stevie Nicks personally? You're actually doing here what you just falsely accused me of doing. You're asserting her point of view when you don't really know her, something you claimed I was doing when I wasn't.

Your hatred of TOSOTM is fine in that you are free to like or dislike whatever you want, but you keep seeming to think that you have to somehow "prove" that your opinion is THE FACT. For some reason you can't just leave it be that you hate the album but others love it. You also keep asserting that TOSOTM led to her career decline, when critically it was actually treated similarly to her previous three albums. As I've pointed out before, if you look at Rolling Stone in particular they actually rated TOSOTM slightly higher than they had TWH and RAL. The album charted higher than RAL did, and the album went Platinum. None of these facts means that you have to like it or that you're "wrong" to not like, but they do mean that maybe the album wasn't the career-killing mess that you keep wanting to make it into.

Thank you!

I would respond, but I think I'm blocked by Jonolar or whatever.

I love OSOTM! A lot of this has to do with the memories it brings me back to. I love songs off of every Stevie album. I don't consider anything she does as "garbage." I may favor some tracks over others, but at the end of the day, she's still my home-skillet!

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by AliceLover

Thank you!

I would respond, but I think I'm blocked by Jonolar or whatever.

I love OSOTM! A lot of this has to do with the memories it brings me back to. I love songs off of every Stevie album. I don't consider anything she does as "garbage." I may favor some tracks over others, but at the end of the day, she's still my home-skillet!

I remember that album as the album that almost signaled the end of her solo career.

[AliceLover]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

I remember that album as the album that almost signaled the end of her solo career.

Well, 21 years later, we now know it wasn't.

BTW OSOTM was the last album to go platinum!

...even if 500,000 returned their copies, which is so obviously true!

[Jondalar]

Here:

The Other Side of the Mirror went Gold in 1989 (Her first album to not go platinum immediately.

Timespace released in 1991 only manages to go gold

Street Angel 1994 fails to even go gold

1997 THE DANCE HAPPENS


Suddenly a slew of ceritifcations, plus her box set goes GOLD

MORE NICKS, STEVIE STREET ANGEL MAY 23, 1994 NOVEMBER 25, 1997 ATLANTIC GOLD ALBUM SOLO


MORE NICKS, STEVIE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MIRROR MAY 11, 1989 NOVEMBER 19, 1997 MODERN PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO


MORE NICKS, STEVIE TIMESPACE: THE BEST OF STEVIE NICKS AUGUST 23, 1991 NOVEMBER 11, 1997 MODERN PLATINUM ALBUM SOLO

it saved her