What the heck is REALLY happening lately in the Middle East??? - Page 2

HejiraNYC · #16 02-17-2011, 04:59 PM

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Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

wow. I wonder what scrutiny someone you know (or even you) would fall under, particularly in looking at decisions they felt necessary or how they handled a situation similar to this.

without even being there, I know this woman for 'her 15 mins' of fame did not call out "feel my ass, touch by (o)(o), brutally sustain sexual assault on me, beat me pulpless!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape

unbelievable.

I don't understand your point. The article clearly pointed out that she was not "raped," so what does the wiki definition of rape have to do with this? I am not even going to attempt to try to speculate what happened to her. All I am saying is that her alleged "brutal and sustained sexual assault" is not consistent with her ability to wait around and then take a long-haul flight home the following day before being hospitalized. I envision a "brutal assault" would necessitate immediate medical intervention to prevent loss of life or permanent injury.

LiamMcConville · #17 02-17-2011, 07:10 PM

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Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

Should this invalidate what happened to her?

yes, that's exactly what luke was implying!

BTFLCHLD · #18 02-17-2011, 10:07 PM

I didn't really get the point of the wiki link either other than it was the first link with mentions of the varying descriptives of sexual assault. I had to step away from the computer as the read of doubtful words verged perez hiltony, for me. I don't need to research numbers to know that there is an underreporting of sexual assault. One could summize there is a reason for this. The fact that people in mass came forward to rescue this person leads me to believe there was no choice other than truly a public display, as well there must have been something amiss or why would they come to her aid? I have to say, if I was attacked in a foreign country I'd want to get the FCK OUT TOO.

jannieC · #19 02-17-2011, 10:27 PM

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Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

I have to say, if I was attacked in a foreign country I'd want to get the FCK OUT TOO.

Amen.

And just because a "person familiar with the matter" stated it wasn't a rape, doesn't mean that's the case. "Raped" or "sexually assaulted for 20-30 minutes... " either way, no thanks.

mezzoforte · #20 02-17-2011, 10:40 PM

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Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

A "brutal and sustained sexual assault" sounds a bit vague to me. It sounds like "rape," but it was not described as such. So I suppose it could be anything from "merely" a groped boob to something more intrusive, albeit, just short of some type of "penetration." But something about her story doesn't pass the sniff test to me. If it was as "brutal" as described, why wasn't she hospitalized immediately? After all, they do have hospitals in Egypt! Instead, she waits a day, takes an arduous 12+ hour flight back to the U.S. and then goes to the hospital?

Call me cynical, but could this be manufactured drama? Could this be an obscure reporter trying to get her 15 minutes of fame? Sure, she could have been swept up in some kind of a rampaging street mob... and yes, when you have lots of people densely packed together like that, body parts are going to tend to get touched and you're gonna get hurt. Yes, she may have felt violated, but everyone else in that mob was probably groped and shoved around too. If it was me, and if I was swept up in an angry mob like that, my first instinct would be about getting the eff away from the rampage, not obsessing about whether someone incidentally groped my ass.

I'm not sure that's fair. Lara Logan isn't an obscure reporter--she's CBS's chief foreign affairs correspondent. She's a serious journalist in a high profile position. I'd certainly heard of her before this, and I don't watch 60 Minutes.
And I don't think she's desperate for her 15 minutes of fame. Her marriages have gotten some attention in the past, and by all accounts she was horrified by the interest in her personal life. There are people who are desperate to gain fame at any cost and for anything--Lara Logan is not one of them.
She might not have been raped (although I certainly think it's possible--we don't know who that quote came from), but whatever transpired it was certainly more than having her ass incidentally groped. If a group of civilians helped her, they must have seen something beyond what was happening to everyone else. And without getting too graphic, there are other types of penetration than P to V--the distinction of what counts gets pretty blurry in some of these cases. Nor does the fact that she didn't go to the hospital there necessarily indicate anything, except that her life wasn't in danger from any injuries.
Of course we don't know all the facts, and we may never. But doubting the veracity seems a little tasteless when a woman is recovering from a traumatic assault.

David · #21 02-17-2011, 10:41 PM

The Arab world -- GET ME OUTTA THERE!!!!!!

HejiraNYC · #22 02-17-2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BTFLCHLD

I didn't really get the point of the wiki link either other than it was the first link with mentions of the varying descriptives of sexual assault. I had to step away from the computer as the read of doubtful words verged perez hiltony, for me. I don't need to research numbers to know that there is an underreporting of sexual assault. One could summize there is a reason for this. The fact that people in mass came forward to rescue this person leads me to believe there was no choice other than truly a public display, as well there must have been something amiss or why would they come to her aid? I have to say, if I was attacked in a foreign country I'd want to get the FCK OUT TOO.

I am sure many people, not just this reporter, who required assistance when this mob started rampaging. There was no mention of this angry mob of people all on the attack after her specifically; rather, it sounds like something happened and she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not saying that it was all nothing. I'm just questioning how "brutal" the assault and beating must have been if she was fine enough to fly away. If I was bloody and my bones were broken, I think I would have been hospitalized. And yes, perhaps sexual assaults are underreported, I don't know. But there have also been high profile cases of manufactured rapes/sexual assaults, e.g., Tawana Brawley (sp?).

TulaneNO02 · #23 02-17-2011, 11:28 PM

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Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

All I am saying is that her alleged "brutal and sustained sexual assault" is not consistent with her ability to wait around and then take a long-haul flight home the following day before being hospitalized. I envision a "brutal assault" would necessitate immediate medical intervention to prevent loss of life or permanent injury.

I agree that the phrase "brutal and sustained sexual assault" is quite vague and doesn't specify the specific details of the event. However, with all due respect, it really doesn't take much to see that "brutal" + "sustained" + "sexual assault" probably doesn't equal "groped boob."

The official statement came from the CBS Corps. news unit, so I assume they made sure that just enough information was released while protecting Lara Logan's privacy. If she (or her family) had wanted more information released, they probably would have released an additional statement. They did not, as they asked for privacy. If, at some point, LL decides to share her story, she may or may not choose to use the phrase "brutal and sustained sexual assault" to describe her experience.

It's possible that she did receive treatment for the more severe injuries and CBS did not mention it. It's also possible that treatment was received before or after her return to the hotel. It's even possible that after receiving treatment for the more brutal injuries, someone (her boss, medical personnel, etc.) decided that she was in decent enough shape to travel home to the states for the rest of her recovery. The point is, we don't have a minute-by-minute play of what happened, where it happened, and who was involved.

LikeAWillow · #24 02-17-2011, 11:38 PM

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Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

yes, that's exactly what luke was implying!

He didn't volunteer an explanation behind his post. I asked for one.

HejiraNYC · #25 02-17-2011, 11:39 PM

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Originally Posted by mezzoforte

I'm not sure that's fair. Lara Logan isn't an obscure reporter--she's CBS's chief foreign affairs correspondent. She's a serious journalist in a high profile position. I'd certainly heard of her before this, and I don't watch 60 Minutes.

Never heard of her. I doubt 99.9% of the public have heard of her either.

Quote:

And I don't think she's desperate for her 15 minutes of fame. Her marriages have gotten some attention in the past, and by all accounts she was horrified by the interest in her personal life. There are people who are desperate to gain fame at any cost and for anything--Lara Logan is not one of them.

Do you know her? You state this with such veracity.

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She might not have been raped (although I certainly think it's possible--we don't know who that quote came from), but whatever transpired it was certainly more than having her ass incidentally groped.

Why do you still think it could have been a rape despite statements to the contrary? Did Lara Logan call it a rape? Did a source close to the matter call it a rape? No. Most likely it's because it's NOT A RAPE. Nobody knows exactly what happened since "sexual assault" could encompass so many things. So it's a "brutal sexual assault," yet it's not rape.

I just can't imagine what that could be. If she was being held down by a mob and forced to do things against her will... that's rape. So if it wasn't rape... then what could have happened?

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If a group of civilians helped her, they must have seen something beyond what was happening to everyone else.

Were you there? How do you know nobody else was being assisted/rescued? Soldiers were there to try to keep the peace. People were also there to protect reporters.

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And without getting too graphic, there are other types of penetration than P to V--the distinction of what counts gets pretty blurry in some of these cases. Nor does the fact that she didn't go to the hospital there necessarily indicate anything, except that her life wasn't in danger from any injuries.

Exactly. This is why I am a bit baffled by what transpired. If it was a "brutal sexual assault" and "beating," I am thinking of blood gushing out of orifices, broken bones and perhaps even loss of consciousness.

Quote:

Of course we don't know all the facts, and we may never. But doubting the veracity seems a little tasteless when a woman is recovering from a traumatic assault.

If I don't have details, I question everything. If I receive contradictory information, I question everything. I'm not saying with certainty that she is lying or sensationalizing her story, which, after all, journalists would never do

. I'm just saying that I don't know what to make of a story that does not seem to add up in my estimation.

HejiraNYC · #26 02-17-2011, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TulaneNO02

I agree that the phrase "brutal and sustained sexual assault" is quite vague and doesn't specify the specific details of the event. However, with all due respect, it really doesn't take much to see that "brutal" + "sustained" + "sexual assault" probably doesn't equal "groped boob."

The official statement came from the CBS Corps. news unit, so I assume they made sure that just enough information was released while protecting Lara Logan's privacy. If she (or her family) had wanted more information released, they probably would have released an additional statement. They did not, as they asked for privacy. If, at some point, LL decides to share her story, she may or may not choose to use the phrase "brutal and sustained sexual assault" to describe her experience.

It's possible that she did receive treatment for the more severe injuries and CBS did not mention it. It's also possible that treatment was received before or after her return to the hotel. It's even possible that after receiving treatment for the more brutal injuries, someone (her boss, medical personnel, etc.) decided that she was in decent enough shape to travel home to the states for the rest of her recovery. The point is, we don't have a minute-by-minute play of what happened, where it happened, and who was involved.

Anything is "possible," including manufactured drama. I would "assume" that airlines would be loathe to take on the liability of boarding a very sick passenger onto a commercial flight.