Trouble in Shangri-la vs Say You Will

[mezzoforte]

I think TISL is a more even album-- I like most of the songs, and don't hate any. But while I will literally leap across the room to skip away from Silver Girl, I love almost all of Stevie's other songs on SYW.
I completely, totally adore Thrown Down, Destiny Rules, and Running Through the Garden. And I know Goodbye Baby and Smile at You were disappointing to many, but I think they're pretty great. Since I'm a newer fan and hadn't heard or loved the demos, I wasn't approaching them from the same perspective, I guess.

And I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I think the production on SYW is aging better than that on TISL. Some of the songs sound a little dated, but most don't, to my ears.

[GoldDustOrphan]

TISL by a landslide.

All I can say about SYW is that I'm still waiting for my personal, hand-written apology from the guy that murdered Smile at You, The Tower and Running Through the Garden in cold blood.

[louielouie2000]

These two albums are just so very different that I've never really even thought about comparing them. To me, I guess SYW is the better of the two, though. I'm on the other side of the coin from HejiraNYC (per usual!), but like he said, there are just no songs on TISL that can be ranked among the best she's ever done. However, I would stack Destiny Rules and Illume in the same ranks as some of Stevie's classics. The only song I even find myself listening to from TISL anymore is Bombay Sapphires. That song still just sparkles out of the speakers, while the rest of TISL just sounds murky to my ears. I think it's cool Bombay Sapphires is the only song of her own she's ever self-produced, too. Makes me wonder if Stevie might have a third act in life as a producer? Weirder things have happened...

[peer_gynt10]

I voted for Trouble, because her vocals are stronger and more passionate. I love Thrown Down, Running through... and Everybody..., but on some SYW tracks, her vocals are so flat and boring and non-committed (Illume, Destiny Rules, Smile at You, not to speak of the title track). Hope I didn't offend anyone now.

[Phoenix]

trouble in shangri la for me but I love thrown down say you will and
illume. I know this does not factor in but the music videos for trouble we
beautiful but the ones for sale you will were so bland. plus my favorite show
CHARMED played I miss you now and planets of the universe on 2 of my favorite episodes which I loved.

[KarmaContestant]

Originally Posted by peer_gynt10

I voted for Trouble, because her vocals are stronger and more passionate. I love Thrown Down, Running through... and Everybody..., but on some SYW tracks, her vocals are so flat and boring and non-committed (Illume, Destiny Rules, Smile at You, not to speak of the title track). Hope I didn't offend anyone now.

The drudgery of working with Lindsey on a project that doesn't really interest her, I suppose.

[jwd]

TISL is all about continuum and flow. The songs collectively pull you in and take you on a journey, from beginning to end.

SYW is a collection of fragmented songs with no real connection between them. It's like a record with a lot of pops and skips.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Both albums have major flaws, but both also have some great tunes.

Initially, I would lean toward Say You Will due to it being Fleetwood Mac and not just "studio cats" making the music. (How can you top John McVie's bass work on "Smile At You"?? That's right, you can't!) After hearing Richard Ashcroft's "New York", Stevie's "Illume" dropped a few notches on my list...they're almost identical, but Ashcroft's was released considerably earlier. If it weren't for the first two lines of "Destiny Rules", that was in the running for my favorite Stevie tune on the album...but, jeez, those first two lines just ruin the rest of the song. She sounds like Johnny friggin' Cash on those...and not in a GOOD way.

But, as far as Stevie Nicks solo albums, TISL, to me, is her best album through & through.

I have a couple of tweaks that would've made it better (for ME, that is):

add "Touched By An Angel" & "Thrown Down" (what has heretofore been referred to as the "wall of sound" version) and toss "Too Far From Texas" off the album and onto a single B-side.

I agree with most of this. More specifically I concur that "Thrown Down" should have never been thrown off of TISL (making that record near perfect) and John McVie really really shines on many of Stevie's SYW songs. Even if I don't love the overall arrangement and direction SAY ended with, Mcvie's bass is extraordinary and a highlight on Illume & Everybody Finds Out as well. Lindsey really shines on the guitar finale of Destiny Rules. I remember a critic referred to it as Fleetwood Mac meets The Smiths... I was like HELL yes!! Johnny Marr is a brilliant guitarist and The Smiths are one of my favorite bands.

But as a total package I had to vote for TISL. Sure I argue with myself thinking Stevie's SYW songs are a bit edgier, and I always wanted an edgy Stevie Nicks record. But I wonder how they recorded her vocals, or what they were hearing in playbacks. Were they all stoned?! Cause Stevie sounds like she was smoking something... because to my ears her vocals are sonically razor sharp to the point of nails on a chalk board cringe worthy at times, and that ruins it for me in places. On the other hand her vocals on Thrown Down and even Silver Girl are nice. While SAY, EFO & Illume have great moments. But ultimately I've decided Stevie current voice requires delicate layers of production to make it palatable for the masses. This is what I'm hoping for on In Your Dreams. No T Bone for Stevie, unless she wants to go out with a total Johnny Cash or Marianne Faithful vibe.

In the future the only way we are getting another Fleewtood Mac record is if Lindsey & Stevie agree on using an outside producer & agree on the producer. And I think the odds are in favor of this happening. So then it will not be SYW pt. 2, instead they should pared down to hopefully 12 stellar tracks where they both can shine.

[bluefox4000]

Funny I've been spinning TISL relentlessly lately. I used to not think much of it.....but it's growing on me. Some really great Tunes on that album. SYW....not much there at all. That album just frustrates me too no end. TISL has more of a classic Nicks feel Though. Trim off..for me.....Planets of the Universe, Bombay Sapphires, and Fall From Grace, and you've got a great album. Stevie needs to learn album trimming, but I digress. I also don't like the nose singing on TISL....Oh well. Getting warmer on that album though

Mick

[TerraRhiannon]

Originally Posted by bluefox4000

Funny I've been spinning TISL relentlessly lately. I used to not think much of it.....but it's growing on me. Some really great Tunes on that album. SYW....not much there at all. That album just frustrates me too no end. TISL has more of a classic Nicks feel Though. Trim off..for me.....Planets of the Universe, Bombay Sapphires, and Fall From Grace, and you've got a great album. Stevie needs to learn album trimming, but I digress. I also don't like the nose singing on TISL....Oh well. Getting warmer on that album though

Mick

After 10 years, oh dear. Haha That was a real grower.

[bluefox4000]

Lol I know I hated it...But I said....Mick Give it a go. You know when something for no reason clicks. Well it happened. She better not crush me with In Your Dreams

Mick

[CADreaming]

I knew this would turn into the bash Lindsey again thread....

Meanwhile, I LOVE Stevie's songs on SYW. I LOVE Illume, Running Through the Garden, Everybody Finds Out, Thrown Down, Say You Will, Smile at You, Not Make Believe and I've come to appreciate Destiny Rules and Silver Girl.

I don't think it's fair to compare this body of work with TISL because that was a solo thing and regardless of everyone saying how jacked up they think SYW is - I actually appreciate it more when I listen to the entire project together.

I think TISL is wonderful and I think the production on it was perfect for a Stevie solo album. But, I prefer her songs as a whole on SYW and admire the artistry behind the production of the SYW songs. Lindsey's guitar solo at the end of RTTG is by far one of my all-time favorites. Also, I'm always going to love their harmonies and I love that whole funky voice stuff in the middle of Illume and how she picks her vocals up right after that as if she's just totally overcome with the emotion and his voice echoing hers - very haunting vibe and perfect for the song.

I don't know why everybody hates on Smile at You. Sure, the demo was great...a hundred years ago when it was recorded. I appreciate the new lyrics and the mature perspective she brings to it in the SYW version though and again the vocal layering and the spanish acoustic guitar at the end is delicious.

Just love these songs!

[Jondalar]

TISL had too many producers. It was sorta a good try, but no dice. The title track + planets are memorable, but a lot of the songs had no presence whatsover.

[AliceLover]

Trouble in Shangri La is good but it is also boring at the same time. I rarely will flip to a song on my Ipod from TISL. If I do, I skip to the end of Fall From Grace, the choruses of Sorcerer, or the middle of Planets.

None of the songs can sustain my attention for very long. I think its a good album, just not great.

With that said, I'll vote Say You Will.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

These two albums are just so very different that I've never really even thought about comparing them. To me, I guess SYW is the better of the two, though. I'm on the other side of the coin from HejiraNYC (per usual!), but like he said, there are just no songs on TISL that can be ranked among the best she's ever done. However, I would stack Destiny Rules and Illume in the same ranks as some of Stevie's classics. The only song I even find myself listening to from TISL anymore is Bombay Sapphires. That song still just sparkles out of the speakers, while the rest of TISL just sounds murky to my ears. I think it's cool Bombay Sapphires is the only song of her own she's ever self-produced, too. Makes me wonder if Stevie might have a third act in life as a producer? Weirder things have happened...

Louie, I usually love your insights, even though I don't always agree - especially on this point highlighted. Seriously, how can you not rank "Trouble In Shangri~La" (the song) & POTU among some of the best things Stevie has ever done solo or even in her entire career. The production on TISL is fantastic. The layered chorus is BRILLIANT and still gives me goosebumps. And the whole ending "You can consume all the beauty in the room BABY" Before the dawn of seperation"....is awesomely delicious and friggin' sonic masterbation IMHO I've seen some Ledgies say Stevie's vocals on TISL are dull. But I don't think thats necessarily so...She really sings TISL with conviction & passion! "It's Only Love" is probably my favorite Stevie vocal in the last 25 years! "Love is" has some real highlights vocally in the beginning and ending. And I feel every reflective and yearning emotion she conveys during "I Miss You". I could go on...... But I will give you Too Far From Texas....she definitely phoned that one in. And it's too bad cause that is a catchy nice little ditty, ruined in part by a uninspired delivery.