The Epistemology Of Stevie Nicks

[vivfox]

For today I wanted to have an elaboration of yesterday’s post. I wanted to have something about the nature of art and some measure for assessing value. Some way to speak to or about the complaint some people make about some art and entertainment being dubious. Yesterday’s post included a quote from an art critic who labeled Karen Kilimnik’s work as “feeble.”

I don’t have that post but I have a couple of Stevie Nicks stories that touch on this issue.

All my life, the best musicians I’ve known have been jazz musicians.

The second-best guitar player I’ve ever known had a collection of bootleg tapes of bad performances by famous musicians. He traded these with friends. It is a hobby shared by a lot of people in the entertainment business. One of his favorite tapes was Stevie Nicks recorded live singing something during one of the bad stretches in her life and without audio processing of any kind on her voice. It was pretty horrible. It sounded like some hoodlums had chained up an old drunk behind a car and were dragging her along an alley and she was screaming in pain as her bones cracked.

But no matter how many musicians I’ve heard laugh uproariously at this tape, every musician I talked to still did covers of one or two Stevie Nicks songs and every musician—although sometimes grudgingly and only in private—would admit that they still liked some of her songs and still enjoyed hearing her sing when she could keep her voice together.

I knew a woman who was an aspiring jazz singer. One evening she asked me if I ever heard of Stevie Nicks and I said I had heard of her. My friend said a lot of people at her shows had been requesting a Stevie Nicks song called “Rhiannon” and she asked me if I’d heard it. I said I had heard it. “My bass player taught it to me,” my friend said. “He did an arrangement for us. Do you know that song is just two ****ing chords?” I nodded. I said, “Yeah, but it’s a good song.” My friend looked at me and just like in an espionage movie her eyes narrowed. “It’s just two ****ing chords,” she said. “We rehearse songs that take us hours to get right. And people are requesting this stupid Stevie Nicks **** with two ****ing chords. Are people ****ing retards?” I said, “Well, you know, you can use more than two chords if you want to. When I play it I harmonize the whole bass run kind of.” “Yeah,” my friend said, “but the whole song is still just two ****ing chords. What the ****?” But she performed the song. And even though her band never took the trouble to make a cool arrangement of the song, every performance I saw the audience loved it. My friend never would admit—even grudgingly and in private—that a two-chord song could be a great song.

One time I played a song I wrote that mentioned Stevie Nicks for a young woman. The song included these lyrics:

What if tomorrow morning
Everyone in the world
Dressed like Stevie Nicks
That would be cool

The young woman had never heard of Stevie Nicks. And the aesthetic issues of dressing like Stevie Nicks had never made the transition from women of my generation to the younger set. I’d hoped to springboard from talking about dressing like Stevie to talking about writing songs like Stevie to get a feel for what the next generation would be thinking about two-chord songs but I never got the chance.

I bet that art critic who doesn’t like Karen Kilimnik doesn’t like Stevie Nicks, either. Maybe she never even heard of Stevie Nicks.

She’d still look cool if she dressed like Stevie Nicks.

That says something about the power of art. Even “feeble” [?] art.

http://impossiblekisses.blogspot.com...vie-nicks.html

[GypsyBlueEyes]

When you start talking about giving art some sort of universal value things get a little complicated. Everyone has their own ideas about what actually constitutes "art" and the level of significance that it has. The level of significance I give something I consider art is based on how it makes me feel...which is why I'm so drawn to music...especially lyrics...I absolutely love lyrics. The reason those people who laughed at that one particular demo yet still admitted to listening to some of her other stuff and liking it is because they were aware that you can't place a value on art based on one piece of it. They may not have even realized it but there was something in those songs of Stevie's that they did like and did listen to that had some sort of affect on them. That jazz singer chick who couldn't get over the fact that Rhiannon was only two chords is the perfect example of the snobbery some people exude when it comes to art. She considered it an inferior piece of music and beneath her simply because it only had two chords...who says that something has to be complicated to worth something??? That is so annoying!

[Christopher]

Well for starters a lot of the great old rock n roll songs are 3 chord wonders, The early Beatle's catalogue is littered with them. Tom Petty boasts about 3 chord songs, and a good deal of his early and latter stuff are just a few chords i.e. "Free Falling". The Byrds & the Doors ("Riders On The Storm", "Light My Fire" "Mr Tambourine Man, etc.) have some great 3-4 chord songs. Kurt Cobain wrote some great chord lite material, and lastly Blues music is typically a 3 - 4 chord shuffle, and I could go on and on and on..

So to GASP, OMG "the song (Rhiannon) is just 2 ****ing chords" (while it's really a 3 chord classic rock song; Am-F & C) is musical & artistic grandiosity and perhaps this pathological narcissist "aspiring jazz singer" should not perform any piece of music that she deems below her own greatness!! If she were aware that the purpose, or even better, intent behind Stevie's classic 3 chord wonder's ala "Rhiannon" or "Dreams" that drives & endears them is age old passion. And that perhaps, is what I argue is one of the essential ingredients that comprise a great song or piece of art from being mediocre and stoic. The delivery and the passion are the mortar and bricks filling in the blank skeletal structure.

[LikeAWillow]

Rhiannon is also composed almost entirely of one syllable words except for the title....and that's what makes it brilliant.

[/English Major]

[Nikolaj]

I knew a woman who was an aspiring jazz singer. One evening she asked me if I ever heard of Stevie Nicks and I said I had heard of her. My friend said a lot of people at her shows had been requesting a Stevie Nicks song called “Rhiannon” and she asked me if I’d heard it. I said I had heard it. “My bass player taught it to me,” my friend said. “He did an arrangement for us. Do you know that song is just two ****ing chords?” I nodded. I said, “Yeah, but it’s a good song.” My friend looked at me and just like in an espionage movie her eyes narrowed. “It’s just two ****ing chords,” she said. “We rehearse songs that take us hours to get right. And people are requesting this stupid Stevie Nicks **** with two ****ing chords>>
--from the interesting piece Viv found and shared---

She was also a particularly bitter aspiring jazz singer, I'd say.
It was an interesting article, but kind of funny that some nameless aspiring jazz-singer's opinion might matter to anyone!

[Sanne2]

Hold on, lemme Google "epistemology" first.....

[Nikolaj]

This piece also reminds me of a quote from Stevie circa 1983, I believe it is still on the NicksFix in the 'Articles' archive, I think it was from an interview in 'Arizona Woman' where the writer mentioned to Stevie that while she was hugely successful, some people took a joy of sort in dismissing her songs, and her. Her answer, I think, is part of what has made her endure:
"Those people, I don't care if they live or die," said Stevie in '83.

[Ghost_Tracker]

I just want to make a point about something called "the Western Canon" - it's the so-called "eat your vegetables" stuff in literature - the books that you "must" read - YOU know, Hamlet, Dickens, Utopia, Plato, that sorta stuff, the whole "dead white guy" thing. The thing is - - As many members here have discovered - some of it really is DAMN good. And if you know a little of the history of it, some of it like Shakespeare was SCANDALOUS. Shakespeare was a freaking ROCK star!!! And how Jonathan Swift stayed out of jail is just absolutely beyond me. But once art gets that label - "this you MUST read, this you MUST see, this you MUST hear" - - Then it's "dead-in-the-water" with a lot of people, especially the young. I'm not saying there's any real possiblilty that could happen with Stevie, but I think it wouldn't be a great thing if it even started to move in that direction. She's (i.m.o.) sort of a "rebel" by nature - people should be listening to her music when the teacher ain't lookin', not being told by the teacher "Okay now if you will please all turn your CD players to song number 35!...."

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Christopher

So to GASP, OMG the song (Rhiannon) is just 2 chords (while it's really a 3 chord classic rock song; Am-F-C)

BUT, the chords only appear two at a time...Am-F, Am-F, C-F, C-F.....it doesn't go through an entire 3 chord progression. Which even "Dreams" does for the little guitar break, but basically is just Fmaj7 - G (repeat as nauseum). But, I'm wondering if this "aspiring jazz singer" wasn't confusing "Rhiannon" with "Dreams".

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by chiliD

BUT, the chords only appear two at a time...Am-F, Am-F, C-F, C-F.....it doesn't go through an entire 3 chord progression. Which even "Dreams" does for the little guitar break, but basically is just Fmaj7 - G (repeat as nauseum). But, I'm wondering if this "aspiring jazz singer" wasn't confusing "Rhiannon" with "Dreams".

I hear ya, but to be fair the "aspiring jazz singer" is quoted as saying "Do you know that song is just two ****ing chords?” not "Do you know that song is just two ****ing chord progressions?”

[gypsy4life]

I can't help it...everytime I see this thread I read "The Episiotomy of Stevie Nicks"

[Stevie's~Prince]

Originally Posted by gypsy4life

I can't help it...everytime I see this thread I read "The Episiotomy of Stevie Nicks"

OW!! If only that ever happened... lol.. but still i was in shock to read that..

[KateTheCursed]

Writing a really good 2-3 chord song is like a writing a good haiku. It takes talent & craft to work within such limited confines.