Demo/Live Performance Requests - Page 26

SapphireSister · #**376** 04-20-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Angel

Jeff (and Mike)..what demos are you wanting lossless? I'm pretty sure I have a lossless What Has RnR. What else?

Ok I must be on the ignorant train this morning but what's lossless?

KarmaContestant · #**377** 04-20-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

Ok I must be on the ignorant train this morning but what's lossless?

Think of it like this:

When you buy a CD in the store, the data is recorded at 1440 kbps. If you rip the CD to your computer as a WAV file, the data is preserved in it's original quality of 1440 kbps - this type of copying is referred to as lossless, because none of the little bits of data are lost.

If you rip that CD to your computer as MP3 files, the data that was 1440 kbps gets squashed down to somewhere between 64 and 320 kbps, which is a considerable loss of data. The loss is usually from the low and high ends of the sound spectrum. The difference is not usually detectable to the ear unless you have a high end stereo system.

However, over time as people trade those MP3 tracks back and forth, they get burned to CD and ripped as MP3s over and over, and eventually the sound quality degrades considerably to very noticable levels due to the constant loss of data.

It's like when you buy a nice deep black shirt, and each time you wash it you lose a little bit of the bold black coloring, until finally what you have is a dull shirt in a rather ugly shade of grey.

You can avoid the loss of data when copying tracks from CD by keeping them in a format that does not compress, like WAV or FLAC.

Since most of the demos in circulation originated from analog tapes, it's likely that somewhere there is a lossless copy of each. The sound quality may be bad since it was copied from cassettes that were copied many times over, but it's still lossless as long as it was never converted to MP3.

Pretty much.

jeffd8382 · #**378** 04-20-2010, 12:02 PM

^ ^ Couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks for that explanation, KC... I like the metaphor too!

HejiraNYC · #**379** 04-20-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

However, over time as people trade those MP3 tracks back and forth, they get burned to CD and ripped as MP3s over and over, and eventually the sound quality degrades considerably to very noticable levels due to the constant loss of data.

MP3's burned to CDs do not need to be "re-ripped" if the MP3 file is not converted back to WAV when burned to the CD. Only an idiot would do that. I would hope that traders have better common sense than to do that.

AliceLover · #**380** 04-20-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

MP3's burned to CDs do not need to be "re-ripped" if the MP3 file is not converted back to WAV when burned to the CD. Only an idiot would do that. I would hope that traders have better common sense than to do that.

You would probably be able to only fit one or two WAV files on a cd. They take up a lot of space. So, no I doubt that.

KarmaContestant · #**381** 04-20-2010, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

MP3's burned to CDs do not need to be "re-ripped" if the MP3 file is not converted back to WAV when burned to the CD. Only an idiot would do that. I would hope that traders have better common sense than to do that.

Agreed, but if you don't know any better... I've been looking at my master reels for instance, and some of them are truly lossless, while others are MP3 sourced because they were ripped as MP3s and burned to CD again.

Fortunately I'm not an audiophile so I'm not losing sleep over it, though I see how others might lay awake at night fretting over it, because I do the same thing - just not over music.

SapphireSister · #**382** 04-20-2010, 12:23 PM

Thank you Karma that was an awesome explanation! Now assuming that I actually understand all of this would it be correct to say that the best copy one could possibly have of a song would be the lossless master?

KarmaContestant · #**383** 04-20-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

Thank you Karma that was an awesome explanation! Now assuming that I actually understand all of this would it be correct to say that the best copy one could possibly have of a song would be the lossless master?

I suppose, yes. In terms of Stevie demos, the best copies you can get are a lossless copy of the studio reels - if one is available.

Otherwise, you settle for what you can get.

Sanne2 · #**384** 04-20-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

you settle for what you can get.

And isn't that what Stevie-fandom is all about?

KarmaContestant · #**385** 04-20-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanne2

And isn't that what Stevie-fandom is all about?

Pretty much, yep.

In so many ways.

SapphireSister · #**386** 04-20-2010, 01:04 PM

So who would like to volunteer to compose a list of lossless master demo reels we have here so far, the ultimate goal being for all of us who want them to have the best quality demos out there without going through 10 versions of every song to figure it out (and yes I know some of you love having every version!)? I'll be your bff

.

P.S.- to you experts out there is this a lame idea??

jeffd8382 · #**387** 04-20-2010, 02:19 PM

I thought I'd take a crack at Mike's fantastic upload of "All The Beautiful Worlds"... it's just a shame the sound was compressed like it is (a look at the spectrum graph probably puts the source at around a 128-160 bitrate mp3 since there is an abrupt drop off just under 15 kHz)... but it's still the best around that I've heard!

There wasn't really much that I could do here to improve the sound from how good it already is, so the differences will be subtle. I tried to brighten up the sound a bit (particularly the center vocals), without it sounding tinny or tiring to the ears. I used a processor that reshapes the envelope of the audio signal (controlling the attack & sustain of drum beats, for example), so that they might come through a little more noticeably (I was aiming mostly to focus on Bobbye Hall's percussion). The levels were also somewhat even... the first minute-and-a-half of the file was louder than the latter section (particularly the first few bars, where you hear just the drums and keyboards).

If you do a spectrum analysis of the track I'm uploading here, you'll notice it will probably look lossless. This is just due to the processors I use... they add high end frequency information that wasn't there in the first place. (i.e. the reverb I used on the center vocals to add a little warmth to the sound adds high frequency information)

So without further ado.. I present a slightly enhanced version of "All The Beautiful Worlds":
http://www.multiupload.com/O1GBQ0IJLW

Please note.. thanks go to mikebise for uploading this in the first place!

jeffd8382 · #**388** 04-20-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

So who would like to volunteer to compose a list of lossless master demo reels we have here so far, the ultimate goal being for all of us who want them to have the best quality demos out there without going through 10 versions of every song to figure it out (and yes I know some of you love having every version!)? I'll be your bff

.

P.S.- to you experts out there is this a lame idea??

I don't think that's a bad idea at all... Do you mean just creating a list of what's been posted here thus far in lossless form? (excluding things that when evaluated are not actually lossless) In the Master Reel thread, someone posted a great link to a complete listing of available master reels if that's helpful to see what's posted and what isn't so far....

http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/nickslive/MasterR2R.html

KarmaContestant · #**389** 04-20-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffd8382

I don't think that's a bad idea at all... Do you mean just creating a list of what's been posted here thus far in lossless form? (excluding things that when evaluated are not actually lossless) In the Master Reel thread, someone posted a great link to a complete listing of available master reels if that's helpful to see what's posted and what isn't so far....

I've finished saving .bin files of all of my masters, and have started the process of checking each one using AudioChecker. It's very simple, and the results are easy to interpret. It will take a day or so to fit it in my free time, but after I'm done, I'll post a list of what I have that I know is lossless versus lossy.

SapphireSister · #**390** 04-20-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarmaContestant

I've finished saving .bin files of all of my masters, and have started the process of checking each one using AudioChecker. It's very simple, and the results are easy to interpret. It will take a day or so to fit it in my free time, but after I'm done, I'll post a list of what I have that I know is lossless versus lossy.

Awesome, thanks Karma! I just like being organized and I have so many versions of so many songs it's getting confusing. This is my first time doing a major mp3/wma download project on a computer and transferring everything into folders in iTunes. My ultimate goal is to have all my Stevie music (best quality possible) organized in my iPod so I can take it anywhere and listen in my car.