The Last "Full" Mac Tracks: BTLH & SYHA

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

Over the years, I've noticed that she largely attracts youth who write poetry (or who read Sylvia Plath & Adrienne Rich--& perhaps Hermann Hesse & Rumer Godden books). There are generalizations one can draw about Stevie's admirers, whereas try to generalize about Christine McVie fans.

Yet, I often (weekly, if not daily) see inaccurate generalizations made about Fleetwood Mac fans and these generalizations are mostly based on Christine's songs. She is the main reason people make unkind assumptions about us. I'd say that the two songs that have most negatively pigeon-holed hapless FM fans are: Don't Stop and Little Lies, with the Clinton campaign drilling the nail into any hope we ever had of being able to walk down the street with heads held high.

Michele

[tilthefirefades]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Yet, I often (weekly, if not daily) see inaccurate generalizations made about Fleetwood Mac fans and these generalizations are mostly based on Christine's songs. She is the main reason people make unkind assumptions about us. I'd say that the two songs that have most negatively pigeon-holed hapless FM fans are: Don't Stop and Little Lies, with the Clinton campaign drilling the nail into any hope we ever had of being able to walk down the street with heads held high.

Michele

You have hit the nail on the head My friends hate FM only because of her songs, and her voice. They say it annoys them But I guess to us it's normal. And it's normal for us to hear about a Sister Of The Moon or a Red Rover. Don't Stop however is becoming one of my least favorite Chris songs, as is Go Your Own Way and Dreams. If it weren't for demos, I believe I wouldn't listen to them hardly at all anymore after all these years.. And also, I believe FM is hard to divide into parts, but no matter how you divide it Christine just gets obscured. She is more of the pop singer of the group, and the harmonizer. Whereas Stevie is the supreme songwriter and Lindsey is the "craftsman" Still yet, Christine was a major part of the group, and it does annoy me when people say that Stevie is the "lead singer" of FM, even though she is my favorite member. Stevie to me does amazing solo, because once more its hard to divide FM to describe them. They become one person in my eyes, rather than three solo singers.

[Dodfather]

Originally Posted by Erin

I wish they would have reconsidered and let her be on the album.

I don't get what you mean here. It's been made clear by all 5 of them that it was Chris's choice not to do Say You Will and they would have loved her to do it...

[Nikolaj]

Dodfather, I think what was meant was that it had been reported that Christine was willing to be on The 'Say You Will' cd as a full member of Fleetwood Mac, but that she put her foot down and said she absolutely would not tour with the band to support the cd. It was then that the band decided not to have her do the Say You Will cd. That's the way I remember it, though I'm not saying you're wrong.
Stevie was asked in a televised interview why Christine couldn't have done the album like she wanted to and not tour. Stevie replied that "that wouldn't have worked, because what if one of Christine's songs became a hit and then she wasn't there on the tour to sing it?"
I do, however, believe that Christine was allowed to say that it was her decision not to do the album and tour, and it may have been. When it was presented to her that she had to tour, I think that's when she opted out.

[Erin]

Nikolaj is correct. That's how I remember it going down as well. They were afraid if Christine had a hit song they wouldn't be able to perform it because she refused to tour. In hindsight they should have let her contribute to the album. Many of her In the Meantime songs would have flowed well with Lindsey and Stevie's songs, with some cuts of course.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

You have hit the nail on the head My friends hate FM only because of her songs, and her voice. They say it annoys them But I guess to us it's normal.

And really, although I don't care that much for Don't Stop (although I loved it on the Dance dvd, with the marching band), I think Christine's songs get a bad rap and really are not as surface or unlayered as the public accuses them of being. So, Little Lies is catchy, but to me it's deeper and not unlayered. It's not like Paul Anka or Neil Sedaka, but people act like it is and that's the category that they throw all FM fans in. Oh, you have no taste. You like sing-songy, mindless pop music!

Well, actually I do have pretty bad taste in music. I actually spent many Saturdays listening to Chuck Cecil's musical retrospective, The Swingin' Years on radio and being thankful for little things like when Shelly Fabares clarified the lyrics to Johnny Angel in an interview! So, I'm no scholar . . . Still, Fleetwood Mac is not an example of my bad taste, it's the exception. That's not the way the public sees us fans though.

Michele

[holidayroad]

It's odd to me to hear about people disliking Fleetwood Mac because of Christine. Everyone I know who could be considered a 'casual fan' likes FM Because of Christine and her songs. More than one person has said to me that when they think of FM, they think of Christine's songs first.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I picture Christine fans as being into wearing bootcut Mom jeans with tweed blazers and speaking with a slow, watered-down English drawl. They also tend to like dogs, shag haircuts, flower print scarves and the smell of cigars and leather. They like to spend their leisure moments nursing a hot cider or cup of tea while lounging outside in a large wicker chair.

I see these types everywhere.

I love to have you describe how you picture a 'Lindsey fan'.

[David]

Originally Posted by michelej1

And really, although I don't care that much for Don't Stop

What's not to like? Blues shuffle in E.

I actually spent many Saturdays listening to Chuck Cecil's musical retrospective, The Swingin' Years on radio

There was nothing wrong with The Swingin' Years!! It was a great program!! You could kick back in the shade of your avocado tree every Saturday afternoon, dog beside you & bag of rock candy in your lap (or dog in your lap & rock candy beside you), listening to Harry James & his orchestra do "I Had the Craziest Dream." Nothing was more relaxing.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by dino

Hm...I always liked Christine's singing (she's never "over-emoting") and melodies, but found her lyrics rather shallow, yes. Aren't they all about...love sweet love? Except..."Brown Eyes" maybe.

No, they really usually aren't about love sweet love, seems to me. Seem to be more often about disappointment; vulnerability; wistfulness; the very fragile point where a proud person begs and lets her need face down her pride.

Then you have Christine's voice, paired with instrumentation pounding the point home with an eloquence I never heard matched in the likes of "love, love will keep us together. Think of me babe whenever, some sweet talking girl comes along, singing a song . . ."

Michele

[Nikolaj]

It's not like Paul Anka or Neil Sedaka, but people act like it is and that's the category that they throw all FM fans in. Oh, you have no taste. You like sing-songy, mindless pop music!>>>wrote Michele

I haven't noticed much of a smugness about Fleetwood Mac socially, their reputation isn't as bad as all that, I don't think. Not here in the East. Could it be in California? Gosh, when I lived there til '92, Stevie was an FM radio staple and the LATimes even praised 'Love Is Dangerous'
Now, if this were, I dunno, a Tony Orlando and Dawn message board, I'd say your point was spot-on, but I don't think there's much of a stigma to holding onto these 70s and 80s icons, the eras which they seem to represent to the g.p.
I think Fleetwood Mac would create less caustic responses than (dare I say) The Eagles! Eagles backlash was in full force in LA in the 80s and 90s, but then I guess it was '94 that 'Hell Freezes Over' made them "accepted" again?? Yet, Jerry Seinfeld would get in his Eagles digs on his sitcom....He seemed to like mocking them, one episode centered around a maudlin fascination a minor character had with 'Desperado' that all but said the song was crap, and in another Seinfeld episode he mocked 'Witchy Woman' calling it 'Witch-AY Woman', I wonder if Don Henley ever stole a girlfriend from him to incur such mocking
Does anyone, at all, remember a pre-fame Jim Carrey doing a send-up of Stevie on The Tonight Show?? This may have been as early as '79 or '80 and he did a hilarious (and I don't like him, generally, at all) wordless eery Stevie imitation, mainly singing exagerrated vowels in his rendition of 'Dreams'... His line before his singing went something like,
"Rock music is the best, but I just can't even tell what the hell anyone's singing anymore. Like Fleetwood Mac...." and he then went into an OMG funny wordless ghosty-ghooly Stevie imitation to the 'now there you go again you say you want your freedom' line, but did it with the vowels really dragged out, especially in the 'eeee' sounds in freedom, and it got the hugest audience laughter you've heard this side of Lucy In The Wine Vat. Brought the house down. Too funny. So, I guess that was mockery of a sort, of Fleetwood Mac, back in the day. But gosh, it was funny.

[vivfox]

Originally Posted by michelej1

No, they really usually aren't about love sweet love, seems to me. Seem to be more often about disappointment; vulnerability; wistfulness; the very fragile point where a proud person begs and lets her need face down her pride.
Michele

Wow, that hit close to home. Oouch.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

I haven't noticed much of a smugness about Fleetwood Mac socially, their reputation isn't as bad as all that, I don't think. Not here in the East. Could it be in California? Gosh, when I lived there til '92, Stevie was an FM radio staple and the LATimes even praised 'Love Is Dangerous'

No, I don't think it's coastal. I'm mostly going from newspaper articles, not comments I hear from people in person, though. When I see the articles turn up in my clipping service, there's always something snide. The most recent one I remember was discussing one of the AI women and they said she was fine and her only fault was liking Fleetwood Mac too much -- and, in the writer's opinion, liking them at all was liking them too much. I see something like that on a regular basis. Michele

[Nikolaj]

I see what you mean, Michelej1. But keep in mind that a lot of paid web writers are fresh out of college, nothing wrong with that at all if they are informed and writing objectively, but many times they just are not.* One such glib writer in a review of a recent concert referred to 'Dreams' as "Thunder" which is lazy and clueless. Young writers often will take a hipper-than-thou stance in their writings to try to gain credibility, and it usually backfires sooner than later, unless they are really good at it and very informed.
I don't recall seeing any seasoned columnists from Billboard, Rolling Stone or other music trades taking any swipes at Fleetwood Mac. If you get e-mail feeds, that can be any 10 year old with a blog. I don't totally disagree with what you wrote exactly, so please don't take it that way. I understand there can be a less than respectful attitude amongst music critics for the band. Generally, though, I believe that Fleetwood Mac is treated with respect in the mainstream media and aren't questioned for their musical endurance and artistry.
* There are talented younger than college-age fans who write objectively and have learned early how to write on a level equal to and often superior to many adults. I don't want to embarrass anyone by name here, just want to prove that I don't think 'young' means 'snarky writer'. Often times; glib dismissal, clever and so musically sophisticated and superior, is evidence of a new hungry scribe, of any age. But, hell, Michele, you're brilliant, so I'll defer to your valid observation.

[Ulpian]

For the record, on topic:

I hear Christine on both tracks. On BTLH, she's crystal clear on the chorus. On SYHA she is less prominent, but still audible on the chorus.

I wonder, on the latter, whether SYHA it's her doing the high pitched "mmm-mmm-mmm"s at the end? I remember at the time Stevie saying Lindsey had distorted his voice, a la Big Love, and she thought it was Chris on a track! Maybe it's Lindsey...