Off-Topic: Elton John today

[Nikolaj]

Moderators, please move this thread to a 'General Discussion' or correct forum, I looked and couldn't find it, I'm sorry. I feel like I'm cheating on The Ledge, because today I felt compelled to register and post, for the first time, at another site, at eltonjohn.com because I wanted to support him. I suspect he's taking a lot of criticism about his Jesus comments released in the media today. (For those who don't know, Elton said his envisionment of Jesus is as a gay man who was compassionate, and the right-wingers are furious). I feel Elton did a good thing. I did mention, in a very roundabout way, Mick Fleetwood in my message at Elton's site, and I feel like sharing what I wrote, and again, please, moderators, if you get a chance, put this in the appopriate forum if there is one,
I don't want to upset anyone here. Thank You! PS- I know everyone won't agree with what I wrote, and what I did not reveal, but I wrote it as I felt it....
**
Thank You To Elton John from a Christian (posted 1/19/2010 on eltonjohn.com)

I am so pleased to be able to write my feelings about Elton's comments about Jesus being a compassionate homosexual. I am a Christian, and I think it is fantastic that Elton has opened dialogue about gays and Jesus, even though I am sadly already seeing bigotry and distortion in the media. I believe that every person of every sexual persuasion benefits from seeking a relationship with Jesus, and I believe that Jesus loves ALL who love Him and accept Him, those who try to put Him first in the way each believer conducts their lives. Some people just are gay, and gay people need to be able to identify with Jesus just as would any heterosexual.
Most white people seem to envision Jesus as white, which makes sense. There wasn't a ton of uproar in the '70s when some feminists needed to identify with Jesus as a female Savior, and many African Americans have an image of Jesus as black, because Jesus is their Messiah as well. So, I see it as a need to be closer with Him and identify and relate to Him. I don't see why it should be considered an 'insult' that a gay man would possibly see Jesus as someone who relates to homosexuals, or could have had homosexual tendencies. It may well not be a stretch that Jesus loves and approves of homosexuals, because He himself created gay people, meaning those who have no choice about their sexuality.
Most of us have a family member who is gay, and I think we wish all of God's blessings for those we love who just happen not to be able to have sexual and/or romantic attraction to the opposite sex. IT HAPPENS. You can't throw a surprise party for Jesus, He knows all and still loves those who truly love him. It's a 'come as you are' proposition being a Christian, you can be who you are, so long as you put effort into learning The Bible and seek the Salvation that does come to anyone who in their heart wants to love The Lord and does love Him and does the best that they can. He is not a God for only heterosexuals, and I think Elton John's comment(s) were brave and insightful, and I believe Jesus is GLAD that Elton has opened a dialogue, because Jesus does need to be on our minds and in our discussions.
The link I saw online to a British tabloid used quotation marks when referring to Elton's "husband" which is an indication of a biased slant, no quotation marks would be used if, oh, Mick Fleetwood referred to his "wife", and Jesus does not want us judging each other.
Jesus certainly does not want anyone who loves Him and wants Him in their lives to be told they aren't "deserving" because of their sexuality, because in actuality, in Christian doctrine, NO-ONE is deserving of Salvation or fellowship with The Lord, it is a blessing, it is a GRACE that is given to anyone who sincerely desires to be One with The Father and The Son.
I have read through and made notations in all 582 pages of the King James New Testament, and homosexuality itself is not enough to keep a person who loves Christ from being accepted by Him. --
continued in next message, out of room- but THANK YOU ELTON.
...(to end)
I think Elton John provided a valuable service in reminding the world that gay people think about Jesus and need to relate to Him. Let the judgment of all matters, including sexual preference, not be made against each other, but made by our Creator. Love Jesus and love one another.
By coincidence, I went out to Target and bought the 1970-2002 Greatest Hits cd, today. I have a lifetime of great music to appreciate tonight. Again, I also appreciate the good that may come from his comments. I think Elton John is a brave man, and it's necessary for gay people to feel comfortable to discuss Jesus Christ, though traditionalists want to deprive gays of a union with God. Elton's comments will ruffle the self-righteous anti-gay bigots, but hey, I fully believe that Jesus himself is a liberal. He'll welcome anyone who comes to Him.
It's about time gay people claim what is theirs, and I think that Jesus himself is smiling down on Elton John today, saying "Yes, I indeed do love my gay sons and daughters and only want them to love Me, and it's up to Me to sort out the rest!"
Well done, Elton John. A true national (and probably international) dialogue about something Eternal, something that matters has begun, different than the plastic surgery celebrities du jour and a golfer with an overactive libido making a public statement, just filling up minds without feeding anyone's Spirit.
Substance at it's best. If EJ reads these messages and sees mine, just know there's a Christian out there who thinks you have reason to really be proud, do not let the right-wing extremists get you down, you did a good thing, and I understand and appreciate your comments.

[rocknalittle]

Thank you- I am an open gay male, and I also have faith. That is just really great to hear other people supporting other people!

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

Most white people seem to envision Jesus as white, which makes sense. There wasn't a ton of uproar in the '70s when some feminists needed to identify with Jesus as a female Savior, and many African Americans have an image of Jesus as black, because Jesus is their Messiah as well. So, I see it as a need to be closer with Him and identify and relate to Him.
... He knows all and still loves those who truly love him. It's a 'come as you are' proposition being a Christian, you can be who you are, so long as you put effort into learning The Bible and seek the Salvation that does come to anyone who in their heart wants to love The Lord and does love Him and does the best that they can.

It's true if you seek Him, you will find Him and if people read the Bible they will get to know the real Jesus. He wasn't and isn't something we create in our minds of what God is - the white man, the black man, the feminist or the liberal... If anyone is interested in His life they should research for themselves by reading His autobiography. I recommend the New Living Translation, which is much easier to read than the old King James.

Start in the book of John.

"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” - Jesus (John 8:32)

[Zombie]

Good for you, my friend. Way to show caring, compassion, and tolerance. And I mean that sincerely.

[iamnotafraid]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

It's a 'come as you are' proposition being a Christian, you can be who you are, so long as you put effort into learning The Bible and seek the Salvation that does come to anyone who in their heart wants to love The Lord and does love Him and does the best that they can. He is not a God for only heterosexuals - do not let the right-wing extremists get you down, you did a good thing, and I understand and appreciate your comments.

Romans 5:8
But God Demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we
were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may
abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer
in it?

John Chapter 8 An adultress faces Jesus.
The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman to Jesus who had been
caught in the act of adultery. And testing Jesus they said "Now Moses,
in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You
say we do?" And as they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and
said unto them, "He who is without sin among you, let him cast the first
stone."

And then Jesus said "Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no
one condemned you?" She said "No, one Lord." And Jesus said to her "Neither
do I condemn you; go and sin no more.

Yes, we come to Jesus as sinners, but no where in the Bible does it state
that we are to continue dwelling in sin. The verses I pulled out of the book
of John backs this up. Especially verse 11 "go and sin no more".

You didn't particularly call me a "right winger", but everyone that thinks
homosexuality is a sin doesn't hate you. Nor do they want to control you
life. Many will tell you the truth because they are worried about where your
sin (all sin) will take you. And that's Hell.

Even if you don't believe in Hell, can you imagine not telling someone that
they need to be saved or need to repent? Love is the reason that some Christians
will try and lead you to Christ.

I have my own sins, so I'm not throwing stones at you. And I know that many on
this board are homosexuals by their own admittance. Some of my favorites on this
board are very open about it. I hold no hatred for them (or any others on this
board). But I wouldn't lie about my thoughts on the subject just to make friends.
And I do believe it is a sin. And I wouldn't want to be Elton John in the afterlife.
Christ commited no sin, He was and will always be perfect.

[tilthefirefades]

This is just my opinion, but I don't think people understand what it's like to be a gay male in today's society. For me, it gets harder almost everyday, realizing new challenges and new discrimination. Maybe I will just never understand why we can't just love each other, regardless of religion. Still yet good for Elton John for speaking about that.

[holidayroad]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

This is just my opinion, but I don't think people understand what it's like to be a gay male in today's society. For me, it gets harder almost everyday, realizing new challenges and new discrimination. Maybe I will just never understand why we can't just love each other, regardless of religion. Still yet good for Elton John for speaking about that.

I agree with you that the world would be a better place if people would not have hatred toward each other based on religious or sexuality biases. What confuses me a lot is that Christianity goes against itself so often and judges others when the bible says that they are to 'Judge not, lest ye be judged'. I don't base my liking of others on anything other than that they treat me how they would want to be treated.

[tilthefirefades]

^ Good for you that's very respectable of you.

[Angel69]

It's also stated in Leviticus "......and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)

As you can see, the book of Leviticus also prohibits the eating of pork (a swine is a pig). Of course, fundamentalists do not choose to use this verse to preach against eating pork. Sadly, however, they have no problem abusing the Bible to condemn gay and lesbian people. Remember, it's about their personal prejudice against gay people, not about a true desire to understand what the Bible actually says.




Fundamentalists also like to use Leviticus 18:22 to justify their anti-gay prejudice. That verse says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." Perhaps you have heard some people refer to gay people as an "abomination." They get the idea directly from Leviticus 18:22. But did you know...

The Bible says that eating shrimp and lobster is an abomination:
"But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:10)

"They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination." (Leviticus 11:11)

"Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:12)

[tilthefirefades]

Originally Posted by Angel69

It's also stated in Leviticus "......and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)

As you can see, the book of Leviticus also prohibits the eating of pork (a swine is a pig). Of course, fundamentalists do not choose to use this verse to preach against eating pork. Sadly, however, they have no problem abusing the Bible to condemn gay and lesbian people. Remember, it's about their personal prejudice against gay people, not about a true desire to understand what the Bible actually says.




Fundamentalists also like to use Leviticus 18:22 to justify their anti-gay prejudice. That verse says, "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." Perhaps you have heard some people refer to gay people as an "abomination." They get the idea directly from Leviticus 18:22. But did you know...

The Bible says that eating shrimp and lobster is an abomination:
"But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:10)

"They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination." (Leviticus 11:11)

"Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:12)

I was actually very surprised when I was reading the bible and came across this. I brought it up to a pastor, and he acted awkward about, and answered none of my questions. The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins is an incredible book, and addresses this directly. Everyone should read it, regardless of religion. It's not just an atheist's book, as most people seem to think.

[Angel69]

Originally Posted by tilthefirefades

I was actually very surprised when I was reading the bible and came across this. I brought it up to a pastor, and he acted awkward about, and answered none of my questions. The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins is an incredible book, and addresses this directly. Everyone should read it, regardless of religion. It's not just an atheist's book, as most people seem to think.

What happens most of the time is that people skirt around the issues which directly affect them and cannot come up with an answer. The above exercise proves that anti-gay fundamentalists selectively quote the Bible. They enthusiastically and openly embrace those parts of the Bible which affirm and justify their own personal, pre-existing prejudice against gay people, while declining to become as enthusiastic about verses like the ones listed above.

Most of the time someone will tell you the pork/fish thing was in the "old" Testament and things have changed with the "new' testament.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Angel69

What happens most of the time is that people skirt around the issues which directly affect them and cannot come up with an answer. The above exercise proves that anti-gay fundamentalists selectively quote the Bible. They enthusiastically and openly embrace those parts of the Bible which affirm and justify their own personal, pre-existing prejudice against gay people, while declining to become as enthusiastic about verses like the ones listed above.

Most of the time someone will tell you the pork/fish thing was in the "old" Testament and things have changed with the "new' testament.

Interesting. Do you know the reason why the new testament okays the eating of pork? I noticed you only quoted the old testament and was curious if you were aware of the references in the new testament which describes the new covenant.

At any rate, pork is unhealthy for you --- and if people would stop looking at the Bible as a lists of "I can'ts" and instead as a book of instruction they would realize that the laws and rules that were put into place were for people's own protection.

[Villavic]

I don't like when a star wants to make controversy with his ideas. I'm not sure if Elton is looking for this, or was just authentic. Saying Jesus is gay will make upset lot of people. The topic is complicated, and we (all the humanity) will never agree 100%

Why he says that to the press? I don't find it necessary. And I want to make clear that I don't consider saying he was gay is an insult. Not at all.

I just think what I think about Jesus, God, and everything in life. And believe it's a lot different from what the church says. But I'm not looking for controversy. I love Elton but this time I don't think he did the right thing.

[jannieC]

This thread is interesting to me because in my line of work, everyone is so tolerant, sometimes nauseatingly so. Seriously though, I live in The South where intolerance is the norm, There are so many openly gay people where I work; I have lost count. And I know they love working where we do because they can be who they are and not feel all weird about it.

Oh, and I have always loved Elton John, especially as a child. I remember when I found out he was gay (as a kid) and thinking, "what's gay?" Didn't he have a wife at one point and people were speculating that she was a man, or is my memory going places on me?

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by Villavic

I don't like when a star wants to make controversy with his ideas. I'm not sure if Elton is looking for this, or was just authentic. Saying Jesus is gay will make upset lot of people. The topic is complicated, and we (all the humanity) will never agree 100%

Why he says that to the press? I don't find it necessary. And I want to make clear that I don't consider saying he was gay is an insult. Not at all.

I just think what I think about Jesus, God, and everything in life. And believe it's a lot different from what the church says. But I'm not looking for controversy. I love Elton but this time I don't think he did the right thing.

You made some very good points about celebrities creating controversy.

But, the "church" is really not an institution or a building - the church itself is the body of believers in Christ. People are in error when they mistake a church or a denominational doctrine for the word of God. This is why people should study the Bible for themselves if they are truly interested and not just go by what anyone else thinks or says. You get into a big mess when you do that. After all, it's not someone's else's faith/belief that will you through life - it's your own. So, make it personal. Christianity is about relationship with God through Jesus and with others, by serving and caring for one another.