Cracks in Stevie’s career in the late 80’s

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by drzubritsky

I agree. While RAL was pretty successful, commercially, it didn't have the creative spark and SN signature touches that the previous albums had. It had a troubled production history which showed in the finished product. "Talk To Me" was certainly commercial, but it was paint-by-numbers top 40 rock that could have been recorded by anyone. It sounded exactly like what it was: a commercial song added at the label's insistence to ensure a hit single. You couldn't say that about the hits from BD or WH...they were very unique Nicks creations that happened to be commercial.

Nicks' vocal decline was also obvious on RAL. I remember playing the album on the day of release and wondering what in the world was going on with her voice on "I Sing For The Things".

Nevertheless, Stevie was still "in the game" during this era, despite her personal and professional troubles. Her stuff did well on the charts and her concerts sold well. But it was definitely the turning point from widespread mainstream appeal to more core followers.

I actually think she gave two of the best of vocals of her career on Talk to Me and Has Anyone Ever Written, but you are right the uniqueness. Talk to Me was hardcore Top 40. I like the song, but it was too mainstream While I really like Has Anyone Ever Written, she hit the nail on the head emotionally, but didn't work on the lyrics enough. Once again, the song didn't make enough sense within itself. Had she worked on the lyrics a little more that song would of been rerecorded over and over again. I'm sure that is why it was dropped from Whitney's record. Although people like it, it doesn't come across as a quality song.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

I think The Other Side of the Mirror was the nail in her coffin, though.

It certainly was as far as I'm concerned. I reacted the way Lindsey Buckingham probably reacted to it: "What is this ****?"

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by greendaze5

In your opinion, when did Stevie’s career start to stumble?

"HI, Stevie, glad you could come. We're all singing hymns and sitting around on the floor! Let me introduce you to everyone;
this is Lindsey!"

KIDDING, KIDDING, kinda-sorta!

I do wonder "what if," though...

On a more literal note, I think maybe Stevie's career stumbled a bit in the late 80s all the way through to 1997. Although I personally thought that Street Angel was a beautiful, well-done album. But I seem to be in the minority there. I think it all "snowballed" together on her in a bad way - - the weight gain, self-esteem issues, declining sales, the Klonopin, hangers-on that were just flattering her and trying to get fame and money, etc. She mentioned in an interview that one emotional "waker-upper" was when the record company "forced" her to include Jon Bon Jovi on a song on "Timespace." She didn't mind Jon Bon Jovi, of course, but she was very upset that she had lost so much control over her career that the record company would be able to dictate to her who would be on her records, "even after all that." So she made a promise to herself pretty much at that point, I guess, to turn it around. Which i.m.o. she did.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

...I really like Has Anyone Ever Written, she hit the nail on the head emotionally, but didn't work on the lyrics enough. Once again, the song didn't make enough sense within itself. Had she worked on the lyrics a little more that song would of been rerecorded over and over again. I'm sure that is why it was dropped from Whitney's record...

I had no idea Whitney was going to record it! I think the song is excellent--but her version of it on Storyteller is miles better than the RAL version.

[wheart]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I disagree. TOSTM was a top 10 platinum selling hit and "Rooms on Fire" charted very well on the Billboard Hot 100- it was a Top 20 single, I think. She was nominated for a Grammy and toured successfully. Personally I think she hit the wall with Timespace- the new songs were terrible, her new collaborators were hacks and she had succumbed fully to the fog of sedatives. She was fat, lethargic and uninspired. Although she has come a long way since then, I don't think she ever quite made a full recovery.

I agree that Timespace was the beginning of the end. OSOTM was not that great but she still had a loyal following who were hungry for a new release and tour. Having a top 20 hit didn't hurt either. Her shows on this tour were not stellar by any means but there were glimpses of the old Stevie, here and there. By the time TimeSpace rolled along, the old Stevie was completely and totally gone, replaced by an indifferent, once passionate woman.

[drzubritsky]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

While I really like Has Anyone Ever Written, she hit the nail on the head emotionally, but didn't work on the lyrics enough. Once again, the song didn't make enough sense within itself. Had she worked on the lyrics a little more that song would of been rerecorded over and over again. I'm sure that is why it was dropped from Whitney's record. Although people like it, it doesn't come across as a quality song.

Agreed. With a little more work and refinement, HAEWAFY could have been another "Landslide". As it is, it's heartfelt and touching, but not a classic.

[Meowi]

I think her career started to breakdwon with RAL, and then rose a little from 1987-1989. After that, well you know the reast.

[wheart]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

"HI, Stevie, glad you could come. We're all singing hymns and sitting around on the floor! Let me introduce you to everyone;
this is Lindsey!"

KIDDING, KIDDING, kinda-sorta!

I do wonder "what if," though...

On a more literal note, I think maybe Stevie's career stumbled a bit in the late 80s all the way through to 1997. Although I personally thought that Street Angel was a beautiful, well-done album. But I seem to be in the minority there. I think it all "snowballed" together on her in a bad way - - the weight gain, self-esteem issues, declining sales, the Klonopin, hangers-on that were just flattering her and trying to get fame and money, etc. She mentioned in an interview that one emotional "waker-upper" was when the record company "forced" her to include Jon Bon Jovi on a song on "Timespace." She didn't mind Jon Bon Jovi, of course, but she was very upset that she had lost so much control over her career that the record company would be able to dictate to her who would be on her records, "even after all that." So she made a promise to herself pretty much at that point, I guess, to turn it around. Which i.m.o. she did.

I had never heard/seen that interview about the Bon Jovi experience. However, perhaps the record company wouldn't have been so insistent that she record one of his songs if she had been actively writing and had a few killer tunes of her own to record. They were probably trying to save their asses.

[starshine]

Well my vote is also for RAL period when all started to fall a part for Stevie. I guess you can't go by what if's but I do always wonder 'if' Mirror,Mirror had been released like it was suppose to have been (instead of RAL)....the concept would've been awesome.....plus for the LPC pic it could've been amazing...Stevie looking at herself in a Mirror & seeing a different Stevie looking back ??? or something. I still wonder with OSOTM why for marketing they didn't use a Mirror of some kind to promote the LP....they did a kaleidoscope thing (promo--which I have as I'm sure others of you have here as well) but why not a real mirror. They should've had the LPC on a mirror too or the back of it. The holograms were cool although the rare UK one is much much better.....anyway, sorry to get 'off' track.....I'd actually heard that 'mirror' version of an LPC pic for the than rumoured Street Angel cover or something to that effect but it didn't come about .....Anyway, getting back to the real reason for this thread....I think RAL was very disjointed as a whole. Too many producers...too many people not really knowing what direction to take Stevie in....Stevie's personal issues complicated it I'm sure....than Jimmy leaving....I still think he was the 'glue' for Stevie at that time & when he left .....and of course her releationship with Joe....it all fell apart....the machine was no more....its like the wheels fell off and just didn't get put back on properly period.....they may have some but too me even with Stevie's somewhat success of late (Dance/TISL/tours through out)....there's many, many missed opportunities...which is really a shame for someone that is a prolific songwriter to have not really gotten as much of her own music out to the buying public....amougest many other avenues with the Net that she could fully use at her disposal. For us as fans its a shame as well....but that is IMO.....if you don't agree thats fine......but she as well as Mac could do much more esp with the 'valuets' of stuff that could get released & doesn't......not just songs pictures as well.....dvd's etc.....it may happen but really too me that 'someday' is NOW not 20 + yrs from now......you strike when the iron is hot not cold.....but .....I guess to Stevie & Mac's camp they've done well til now so why change anything........I liked Mirror although it was a different Stevie at that point.....thats when I started collecting Stevie & Mac though I still say I got interested in '88....don't like Tango period ugh......Mask is ok......TS is ok but I do love the poster I have of Stevie with the flag its awesome!!.....SA had its moments but Mirror is more cosistent than SA is......I don't mind TISL but its no masterpiece to me that it is supposedly to Stevie but thats why we all have our own opinions which is good. SYW is ok as well /but tell me why for all the pictures they had taken for this LP why do they all look 'mad' not any smile's period.....I mean they look mad/even mean in some of those photos ?? I think more 'fun' group photos are better than angry looking ones....anyway, I don't mind the live cd but I just think it would've been nice to have had 'all' the songs not just 10 songs on the cd when they can fit all of them. Plus when Stevie did the Storytellers show that show at the time should've been released as a cd/dvd show with all of the songs as well.....another missed opportunity to me.....anyway.....just some thougts ok.......

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by wheart

I had never heard/seen that interview about the Bon Jovi experience. However, perhaps the record company wouldn't have been so insistent that she record one of his songs if she had been actively writing and had a few killer tunes of her own to record. They were probably trying to save their asses.

1980s STEVIE is to Being able to see the Record Company's Business-Oriented Point-of-View as RAINBOWS are to "Optical and meteorological phenomena that cause a spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the Sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the Earth's atmosphere, over a spectrum of colors," with a distinctive lack of pots of gold at the end of them...

It could be a question on the S.A.T.

................

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

1980s STEVIE is to Being able to see the Record Company's Business-Oriented Point-of-View as RAINBOWS are to "Optical and meteorological phenomena that cause a spectrum of light to appear in the sky when the Sun shines onto droplets of moisture in the Earth's atmosphere, over a spectrum of colors," with a distinctive lack of pots of gold at the end of them...

You're making me think about Conan.

Michele

[skcin]

Originally Posted by AncientQueen

I felt she lost it when I saw the "Red Rock" Concert on video. Her look, her voice, the pompous show... she had turned into a caricature of the once great Stevie Nicks. And personally I feel that she needed all the time up to "The dance" to recover.

Yeah, the album itself wasn't bad at all, IMO. The tour started strong too, but then it all started falling apart. The Red Rocks vid was filmed right in the middle of the 80's cheese synth-pop crap concert vidseo craze, so I can't fault her completely for that - it's what people were doing in that era. However, I agree it was the beginning of the end.

Originally Posted by David

It certainly was as far as I'm concerned. I reacted the way Lindsey Buckingham probably reacted to it: "What is this ****?"

I think it was more like "what is this ****?"

Originally Posted by Meowi

I think her career started to breakdwon with RAL, and then rose a little from 1987-1989. After that, well you know the reast.

Well put, and ITA.

[Jondalar]

RAL was when Stevie turned into a singles artist.

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by greendaze5

In your opinion, when did Stevie’s career start to stumble? For me, it would be when ‘Tango in the Night’ came out. She had a hit single with ‘Seven Wonders’, but let’s face it, Sandy Stewart deserves credit for that one. Changing one line or two, because you didn't know the real words while singing it, doesn’t make it ‘co-written’ by.
I think the cracks really started appear when ‘Two Kinds of Love’ (which I personally like) and ‘Whole Lotta Trouble’ failed to chart. Worse was when she had NO singles of ‘Behind the Mask’. But then again, none of her songs were radio friendly enough.

Glad she bounced back beginning with ‘The Dance’.

Roland

Thank you, thank you, thank you for writing this. For the first time, I didn't have to be the one to say this about this song.

But back on topic, yeah it was the OSOTM album that started all the 'cracks'.

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I disagree. TOSTM was a top 10 platinum selling hit and "Rooms on Fire" charted very well on the Billboard Hot 100- it was a Top 20 single, I think. She was nominated for a Grammy and toured successfully. Personally I think she hit the wall with Timespace- the new songs were terrible, her new collaborators were hacks and she had succumbed fully to the fog of sedatives. She was fat, lethargic and uninspired. Although she has come a long way since then, I don't think she ever quite made a full recovery.

There were two very successful singles from RAL, and then only one from OSOTM that even came close to their success. And the one single that did chart (ROF) didn't last long, and musically, it was really out in left field compared to the other albums that came out that summer (U2, Tom Petty, Pink Floyd, etc.). Nobody was doing that lazy synth pop anymore by then. The "Kenny G/Mariah Carey/Michael Bolton/lazy synth" train had already left the station and fell off the tracks two years prior to the release of OSOTM.

But, back to the original comment, the OSOTM was her first album that produced only one single in the top twenty.

Also, OSOTM did not go platinum right away and all her previous albums did.