Do you agree with the Kinsey scale of human sexuality?

[LiamMcConville]

Do you agree that every human can be ranked at a different number based on certain experiences/feelings during a certain period of one's life? Or do you think sexuality is more black and white?

I believe that the extremes on this scale: exclusively heterosexual & exclusively homosexual are based on "nature"/science, while the numbers in between are based on "nurture"/environment one was raised in.

[carrie721]

i haven't done enough research (take that as you will) to figure it all out.

i'm not quite sure what you mean by this:

I believe that the extremes on this scale: exclusively heterosexual & exclusively homosexual are based on "nature"/science, while the numbers in between are based on "nurture"/environment one was raised in.

do you mean that people are born either totally straight or totally gay and then start "experimenting" later on?

i don't know. the problem is so much happens with a child between conception and toddlerhood that who knows what causes these things to happen? kids pick up on so many social cues before they are aware of these things that it may be impossible to figure out.

[LikeAWillow]

Liam, I'm curious, do you believe bisexuality is a societal construct? If so, do you believe the majority of those who identify as bisexual are born straight or gay?

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

Liam, I'm curious, do you believe bisexuality is a societal construct? If so, do you believe the majority of those who identify as bisexual are born straight or gay?

you didn't ask me, but i'm a blowhard.

that is how i read what he said. IDK that i agree, as i said above. what are your thoughts? also, do you identify as lez or bi?

ultimately i think labels are pointless but i'm always interested in how they perceive themselves & others.

[LiamMcConville]

Originally Posted by carrie721

do you mean that people are born either totally straight or totally gay and then start "experimenting" later on?

Yes. But not "experimenting", per say. I think that you are either born straight or gay, and the way you were raised and the environment you were raised in has a great effect on how you view your sexuality consciously or subconsciously.

Liam, I'm curious, do you believe bisexuality is a societal construct? If so, do you believe the majority of those who identify as bisexual are born straight or gay?

I have no idea, as I haven't really thought into this.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

Yes. But not "experimenting", per say. I think that you are either born straight or gay, and the way you were raised and the environment you were raised in has a great effect on how you view your sexuality consciously or subconsciously.

i gotcha.

if people are born gay, i guess i don't understand what the biological imperative is. within our current society, one in which the species' survival is not correlative to fecundity, homosexuality isn't a bizarre thing. but in the millenia before modern times, how did homosexuality fit into the big picture? i have no idea.

[LikeAWillow]

Originally Posted by carrie721

you didn't ask me, but i'm a blowhard.

that is how i read what he said. IDK that i agree, as i said above. what are your thoughts? also, do you identify as lez or bi?

ultimately i think labels are pointless but i'm always interested in how they perceive themselves & others.

I'm not big on labels either. I've done relationships with men and women, and I tend to say I'm whatever label best fits with the relationship I'm in at the time.

[LikeAWillow]

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

I have no idea, as I haven't really thought into this.

I'm going to keep picking on you anyway because you said I sound like Sharon Celani, and as much as I love her, I know your feelings about the long, cool woman in a black dress

the way you were raised and the environment you were raised in has a great effect on how you view your sexuality consciously or subconsciously

Nature vs. Nuture is such a tough thing for me to grapple with. Studies have shown (I'll try to track down the one in particular I'm thinking of if anyone is interested) that most women have some degree of physical attraction to other women, even if that attraction isn't emotional. So in that case, does nature decide the physical dimension and nurture determines whether or not you're willing to act on that attraction, or, is that attraction based on the fact that women are sexualized in almost every aspect of our society?

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

I'm not big on labels either. I've done relationships with men and women, and I tend to say I'm whatever label best fits with the relationship I'm in at the time.

cool. fwiw, i have been with guys and girls and consider myself lez.

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

Nature vs. Nuture is such a tough thing for me to grapple with. Studies have shown (I'll try to track down the one in particular I'm thinking of if anyone is interested) that most women have some degree of physical attraction to other women, even if that attraction isn't emotional. So in that case, does nature decide the physical dimension and nurture determines whether or not you're willing to act on that attraction, or, is that attraction based on the fact that women are sexualized in almost every aspect of our society?

i know the studies you're talking about. i have no idea what to make of them, though. i think it was NYT that ran a big piece about it some years back.

i don't think it's about women being sexualized in society, though. i think everyone is sexualized - it's all part of being an animal. women are just more circumspect about sexualizing men.

[LikeAWillow]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i don't think it's about women being sexualized in society, though. i think everyone is sexualized - it's all part of being an animal. .

Jean Kilbourne hates you.

Haha, I have seen her documentaries way too many times, but I promise, if you have a spare 35 minutes, Killing Us Softly 3 (I'm not sure if it's intended to sound like a porn or not, but I like to think it us) is worth a watch.

www.jeankilbourne.com

I know the video is available to watch streaming free somewhere online. I'll edit this post if I find it. Apparently hinting at media I don't actually have at my fingertips is my thing tonight.

Edit:

Google is my best friend.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...68502337678412

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

Jean Kilbourne hates you.

Haha, I have seen her documentaries way too many times, but I promise, if you have a spare 35 minutes, Killing Us Softly 3 (I'm not sure if it's intended to sound like a porn or not, but I like to think it us) is worth a watch.

www.jeankilbourne.com

I know the video is available to watch streaming free somewhere online. I'll edit this post if I find it. Apparently hinting at media I don't actually have at my fingertips is my thing tonight.

Edit:

Google is my best friend.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...68502337678412

ha! you beat me to it. i just found it.

thanks for the tip. i will watch it.

[LikeAWillow]

Originally Posted by carrie721

ha! you beat me to it. i just found it.

thanks for the tip. i will watch it.

And you will discuss it with me afterwards, I hope

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

And you will discuss it with me afterwards, I hope

of course!

[carrie721]

okay, i watched the doco and then had a bottle of wine.

i think i need to watch it one more time to hammer out my thoughts. but my initial reaction is this: she has some good points about the pervasiveness of advertising and consumerism in everyday life. but i don't agree with her underlying theory which appears to be that gender roles are societal constructs.

will do some more thinking on this at a later, more sober, date.

[louielouie2000]

I don't know if I buy that gender roles are entirely social constructs. I can just look to the animal kingdom at mine, my friends, and families dogs, and see that gender roles are absolutely innate. My dog is a male, and I just laugh every day at how very feminine my friends dogs are who are females. Yes, dogs and other animals are social creatures just like people, but they don't have conscious social hang ups like we do. That being said, I absolutely agree that there are enormous societal pressures to fit your gender role. I see men and women, gay and straight, struggle with this constantly. Children especially seem to be much more fluid with their gender identity. Different cultures around the world also have vastly different ideas of what's feminine and masculine. But I still believe we're born with certain gender characteristics. My brother has both a daughter and an son, both young toddlers. Way before either could walk, talk, or even crawl, they had mannerisms distinct to their gender. That being said, as a gay male I absolutely have feminine qualities and sensibilities most straight men lack. There have even been studies proving that gay men and straight women's brains operate in the same fashion (same goes for lesbians and straight men). Even so, I'm distinctly and thoroughly male... I just have the good fortune of having female traits and sensibilities to compliment my masculine ones!

I definitely agree with the Kinsey scale. I think human sexuality is way more fluid than the majority of the population will confess to. Admittedly, most people fall into the extreme ends of the scales (exclusively hetero or homo), but I think sexuality is much more complex than just hetero and homo (or even hetero, homo, and bi). Bisexuality however, is a bit of a cloudy subject in my mind. I dated a guy who was bi for a couple of years in college. I think he was bisexual in the most basic sense... he could pleasurably have sex with both men and women. But I think he was only capable of having relationships with men. One of my Mother's friends dates only women, but he will occasionally have sex with men. The women I've known who have had bisexual tendencies have been much the same way. I keep thinking about what Carrie Bradshaw said about bisexuality in Sex And The City: "it's just a layover on the way to gaytown." I hate to say it, but I pretty much agree with that. I think bisexuality is absolutely a healthy part of human sexuality and experimentation during adolescence and early adulthood, but I've yet to encounter someone who I can truly call 100% textbook bisexual (meaning they can both have sex AND relationships with either men or women, at any stage in their life). I know you can argue that society doesn't accept bisexuality, and eventually the said person feels pressured to fit into a box, but I just don't buy that 100% either. I think much like gender, we are born with a strong leaning of whether we are gay or straight, masculine or feminine).