New album?

[Fleetwoodmark]

Great discussion. All members of Fleetwood Mac have said in the past that Christine was a mediator between S'n'L (Politically).

For a new album they need collaberation. How about they co-write some songs together as well as writing their own. Thie would mean a more focused approach to what they are trying to achieve.

[David]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

To me, all their albums sound as disconnected as SYW, only with 3 directions instead of two. I don't mind it, but only the first two albums felt like they had any sort of "meshing" whatsoever.

True. And not coincidentally, those first two albums with that lineup were recorded with the group all together at the same time & in the same place (or two). After that, the unity of time & place (no pun intended) eroded. Say You Will was the furthest point in that direction the band had ever gone: tracks were recorded over about a ten-year period with a smorgasbord of different personnel & environments. Think of how much the logistics of recording can & do change over such a time span. Your singing voice changes, your proclivities for orchestration & arrangement change, even the recording equipment you use changes. All of this created in 2003 what is, in my book, a fractured collection of aural artifacts. Say You Will doesn't just sound like two solo albums -- it sounds like about five or six, because Lindsey's tracks alone sound like three or four.

But, overall, I still feel like I am hearing 3 separate solo artists, save for a handful of songs where the collaboration was there or they at least had more equal parts musically and vocally.

The only song that has any resonance in it as a collective Fleetwood Mac work, reminiscent of earlier times, is Destiny Rules. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that that was pulled together in the shortest amount of time.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by David

True. And not coincidentally, those first two albums with that lineup were recorded with the group all together at the same time & in the same place (or two). After that, the unity of time & place (no pun intended) eroded. Say You Will was the furthest point in that direction the band had ever gone: tracks were recorded over about a ten-year period with a smorgasbord of different personnel & environments. Think of how much the logistics of recording can & do change over such a time span. Your singing voice changes, your proclivities for orchestration & arrangement change, even the recording equipment you use changes. All of this created in 2003 what is, in my book, a fractured collection of aural artifacts. Say You Will doesn't just sound like two solo albums -- it sounds like about five or six, because Lindsey's tracks alone sound like three or four.

The only song that has any resonance in it as a collective Fleetwood Mac work, reminiscent of earlier times, is Destiny Rules. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that that was pulled together in the shortest amount of time.

I think that was why I adored Destiny Rules from the second I heard it... it was like a throwback to Gypsy to me... it was very tight, clearly a full band effort, gorgeous harmonies, yet it still sounded like a progression from what we'd heard in the past. Songs like Come (which I LOVE), sounded like an alien just landed in the field . I bet you're right too... I bet they pulled together, and crafted that one pretty quickly. That seems to be the way the band does their best work anyway, instead of this constant noodling and pursuit of perfection.

I never thought of it that way, but I definitely agree... SYW sounds more like a half dozen albums put into the blender vs two.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by daniellaaarisen

Why thank you




Agreed. Their only motive needs to be derived from a universal goal as a band-- create music as a band without killing one another before its release. We don't want another Tango In the Night situation.

Plus, if Lindsey doesn't produce, there will be someone there to speak to him from a voice of authority and help draw the creative line without supressing him too much. With an outside producer, balance could be found.




I thought Trouble in Shangri-La sold pretty well in comparison to her other later solo albums?

________________________________

On a side note, it just occurred to me that a lot of Stevie's Trouble in Shangri-La tracks probably would have molded to Lindsey's tracks a little better. Some were less traditional but still carried a sense of commercialism. Yet to me, TISL is a total solo album, and it carries no Fleetwood Mac undertones. So that combination (TISL-type tracks on SYW) would have either redefined Mac or made the barrier between the two songwriters even more prominent.

Interesting.

TISL made Gold status... aka, it sold 500,000+ copies. Street Angel was the only of her albums to not have even make Gold. I believe the rest of Stevie's solo works are Platinum... 1,000,000 copies or more sold. I think she probably expected TISL to do better than it did, but in my opinion she didn't strike soon enough after the Dance while the iron was hotter. She might have been smarter to put out TISL in '98, THEN Enchanted in '01.

Yeah, I agree Stevie's TISL tracks would absolutely have molded to Lindsey's SYW tracks better than what ended up on SYW. Her SYW tracks sounded more like classic Mac... a direction Lindsey was not going in for that album. Who knows, maybe they'll get it together for another go around! Let's hope!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

True, it would be great for a ground up collaboration.

In what way do you think Christine was a bridge though? Musically or politically?

First politically. Probably "bridge" isn't the right term, because I don't think she actually linked them together in the traditional "glue" sense. I think she was more of a deflector, buffer, car bumper . . . They could both turn towards her, so they didn't have to crash into each other head on as often.

Musically, just her presence there didn't facilitate the melding of Stevie and Lindsey's musical sound to me. Christine and Lindsey probably did more for each other's music.

Although Lindsey may think otherwise, I don't think Christine changed the sound of Stevie's music much. Lindsey said something like Christine's presence made Stevie's music less aggressive. Yet, Lindsey was running around feminizing everything (Hold Me) more than Christine ever did.

However, just having Christine in there too made Fleetwood Mac's overall sound more varied and complex. I think it offered fans more.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Probably another reason why she's still pouty about the SYW experience.

I would have loved it if they had put the sequencing arguments on Destiny Rules. Judging from SYW (the album) and the placement of Time Precious Time, if Lindsey was responsible for those 2 things, then I'd have to say his sequencing sensibilities stink.

Trying to piece things together, it sounds like they went to Hawaii post SYW production. Lindsey stayed behind for the engineering and since he was the only one there, he put his foot down when it came to final track sequence. To disastrous results.

The album opens badly and I always say that the match of RTTG and Silver Girl has cost several people their lives. There are certain patients who were transitioning well off of life support until they heard those 2 songs back to back. Then, tragedy struck.

The album ends nicely though with Say Goodbye and Goodbye Baby. Reminds me of Burns and Allen.

George: Say goodnight, Gracie.
Gracie: Goodnight Gracie.


Michele

[daniellaaarisen]

Originally Posted by michelej1

However, just having Christine in there too made Fleetwood Mac's overall sound more varied and complex. I think it offered fans more.

Michele

With three people creating different sounds for a band rather than two, the polar opposites work. The variety IS the band and gives a little something different to each song. With only two songwriters, the divide does not benefit an album (like I think it did with Christine) but instead gives you the impression that there are two solo artists throwing all their tracks on one disk. There's a difference between three people bringing their best music to a table-- we all know generally what to expect from a Christine, Stevie or Lindsey song. With SYW, there were two people doing the same thing and it just didn't work as well.

Three was kinda the magic number, I think.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by daniellaaarisen

Three was kinda the magic number, I think.

Three's the charm.

It's a very pedestrian statement from her, nothing particularly magical at all, but I remember reading my SYW tour book before the show and when I got to the part where Stevie says they were meant to be three for all of those years, it made me cry.

Of course, John then said of Christine, "I thought she got fired," and that quickly laughed the tears away.

Michele

[daniellaaarisen]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Three's the charm.

It's a very pedestrian statement from her, nothing particularly magical at all, but I remember reading my SYW tour book before the show and when I got to the part where Stevie says they were meant to be three for all of those years, it made me cry.

Of course, John then said or Christine, "I thought she got fired," and that quickly laughed the tears away.

Michele

Mac constantly brings me to (completely unnecessary) tears and immediately after, I'm cracking up. I wish I could have listened to what was going on in John's head all the time during all the diva drama flying around limos and dressing rooms.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by daniellaaarisen

Mac constantly brings me to (completely unnecessary) tears and immediately after, I'm cracking up. I wish I could have listened to what was going on in John's head all the time during all the diva drama flying around limos and dressing rooms.

Thinking of that tour book, they were questioned about the SYW cover and, until then, although I love the cover photo, I never really thought of how it depicted the four of them all lying down together. In that sense, it is very much like the Rolling Stone bed cover and I had never put those 2 photos together, until I read it in the program.

Although you can fold it out, so that all 4 of them are lying down (and you can fold out Mirage so that you see all 5 of them standing together too), I always thought mostly of Stevie/Lindsey and John/Mick as two separate pairs for the SYW pictures.

Anyway, when asked if they are all sleeping together during the SYW tour, only John says "no." He is emphatic about it. The rest of them give teasing answers. I thought it was pretty amusing.

Michele

[daniellaaarisen]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Thinking of that tour book, they were questioned about the SYW cover and, until then, although I love the cover photo, I never really thought of how it depicted the four of them all lying down together. In that sense, it is very much like the Rolling Stone bed cover and I had never put those 2 photos together, until I read it in the program.

Although you can fold it out, so that all 4 of them are lying down (and you can fold out Mirage so that you see all 5 of them standing together too), I always thought mostly of Stevie/Lindsey and John/Mick as two separate pairs for the SYW pictures.

Anyway, when asked if they are all sleeping together during the SYW tour, only John says "no." He is emphatic about it. The rest of them give teasing answers. I thought it was pretty amusing.

Michele

Wow, that is really interesting about the Say You Will cover. I would have never thought about that.

Now that I'm looking at the cover, I think its interesting that John and Mick are completely joined by their hands and neither touch Stevie or Lindsey in any way. Then, Stevie and Lindsey's arms are definitely touching but they are not intertwined. The crazy and analytical writer in me apologizes for this random observation... but I just think it kinda demonstrates the two relationships. Mick and John: the most reliable link in the chain. Stevie and Lindsey: always connected in their independent way with just enough room between them for some friction to start.

....I am ridiculous.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by daniellaaarisen

Stevie and Lindsey: always connected in their independent way with just enough room between them for some friction to start.

And upside down too. Joined, but not eye to eye. Heads in opposite places. Facing different directions.

That's why I wonder about Double Suicide. Were they inspired by the movie itself or did they just see the picture and say "that's us, exactly!"

Michele

[Black_Moon]

If they choose to make another Fleetwood Mac album, I think the key to creating a cohesive album is to pick a theme and stick with it, kind of like a thread running through all of the songs. "Tusk", as wildly erratic as it was, still managed to sound like a band project in my opinion. The songs all join together in some way, whether it be subject matter or sequencing.

"Say You Will" was sequenced in a way that sort of said, 'now this is Stevie's turn, now Lindsey's' and there's not that sense of unity that there is in "Tusk", which really is the only album I feel I can compare with the former, because of length and creative styling.

There were too many different genres and stylings going on in "Say You Will" for it to be a real flowing listen. Plus, the order of songs really threw me off. Like Michele mentioned, for a start the placement of "Running Through The Garden" and then "Silver Girl" completely puts off any listener.

I also think Lindsey and Stevie should have harmonised on all of the songs. That way the Mac sound is more prominent, and the sounds aren't so disjointed, because Stevie could be the link between experimentalism and the classic sound the band has. The album should have dropped about four songs - "Come" (I love it, but as Stevie refused to contribute on it, it's more suited to a solo venture), "Peacekeeper", "Murrow Turning Over In His Grave" and the dreaded "Silver Girl".

[daniellaaarisen]

Originally Posted by michelej1

And upside down too. Joined, but not eye to eye. Heads in opposite places. Facing different directions.

That's why I wonder about Double Suicide. Were they inspired by the movie itself or did they just see the picture and say "that's us, exactly!"

Michele

Funny-- I thought of that when I was walking away from my computer. There sure is a lot of (probably unintended) symbolism all over Fleetwood Mac, but this cover is definitely a new way to think of it.

The money I'd pay to sit down and drink tea by a fire with La Nicks.... I have about ten thousand questions to ask. I'd put the cover on my list!

[Dodfather]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

TISL made Gold status... aka, it sold 500,000+ copies. Street Angel was the only of her albums to not have even make Gold. I believe the rest of Stevie's solo works are Platinum... 1,000,000 copies or more sold. I think she probably expected TISL to do better than it did, but in my opinion she didn't strike soon enough after the Dance while the iron was hotter. She might have been smarter to put out TISL in '98, THEN Enchanted in '01.

Yeah, I agree Stevie's TISL tracks would absolutely have molded to Lindsey's SYW tracks better than what ended up on SYW. Her SYW tracks sounded more like classic Mac... a direction Lindsey was not going in for that album. Who knows, maybe they'll get it together for another go around! Let's hope!

I've always thought this! Glad someone else thinks so too. If she'd done it this way round we may not all be clamouring for a new solo record as much because we'd have had new material in 2001, 2003 and 2009 (if Soundstage can be counted)? Crystal Visions just annoys me. She should have just released the videos dvd with an accompanying proper documentary or live performance rather than the cd hits collection with it's very weird tracklisting! That said, of course own it - but I only bought it for the dvd!