Stevie's assistant, Karen.

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I do not think Karen was contributing anything musically. I think she was just corroborating La Nicks' statement.

It bothers me that she was even in the room, contributing to a discussion that should have been none of her business.

Apparently, it bothered Lindsey, too.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

It bothers me that she was even in the room, contributing to a discussion that should have been none of her business.

Apparently, it bothered Lindsey, too.

FM has a history of having many non FM five (now four) in the room

and, LB minded so much he involved his and others' people

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

FM has a history of having many non FM five (now four) in the room

No, actually, strand, they don't have that history. I was reading an old book the other day -- Superwomen of Rock -- & the band members all said how they managed to stay productive & relatively stable: by making their decisions by themselves.

They have also all said how the emergence of the Gang of Four -- the various lawyers & managers representing individual members -- signaled a major disruption in their once-streamlined processes & procedures.

Have you ever been in a band? I have never talked to anyone in a band who said it was a good thing for outsiders to be involved in musical or career decisions for the band. At best, for some people, it was a necessary evil. Typically, it was the source of extreme resentment, frustration, & even rage among bandmates. The butting in of my drummer's wife virtually destroyed my band many years ago. Our story is legion.

and, LB minded so much he involved his and others' people

Do you know why he may have done that? Think, strand, think.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

FM has a history of having many non FM five (now four) in the room

and, LB minded so much he involved his and others' people

It looks like Lindsey called Tony to avoid having to spar with Karen himself, which was probably the most prudent thing to do. If Stevie and Lindsey had been having a face to face discussion and he had brought his third party manager into it, that would have been more obstructive than efficient, but since he was being confronted with Karen, calling one third person to deal with another was better than going off on Karen himself, which would have solved nothing and been unseemly.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

No, actually, strand, they don't have that history. I was reading an old book the other day -- Superwomen of Rock -- & the band members all said how they managed to stay productive & relatively stable: by making their decisions by themselves.

Even as recently as the SYW tour they mentioned that they finally got problems solved by getting away from their representatives and handlers and just talking to one another. They certainly said that about why the Dance tour went off without any fights.

They do have a history of having people around them, but Karen is not Howard K. There are hierarchies in entourages. If Ray and Karen want to go at it, hey, I'll get ring side seats. But you should be in the same weight category to fight.

Michele

[David]

Originally Posted by michelej1

If Stevie and Lindsey had been having a face to face discussion and he had brought his third party manager into it, that would have been more obstructive than efficient, but since he was being confronted with Karen, calling one third person to deal with another was better than going off on Karen himself, which would have solved nothing and been unseemly.

Exactly.

They do have a history of having people around them, but Karen is not Howard K.

Sure, they keep assorted detritus around -- on tour & in rehearsals, especially Stevie, with her ever-widening cadre of Wormtongues. (Have I mixed four or five metaphors yet?)

I'm only talking about outsiders proffering -- unbidden -- their views on musical matters to the band circle. My view is that the band has not allowed that to occur, for reasons that are clear to anyone who was ever involved in a music group. Can you imagine Sharon Celani, new to the circle at the time, dishing unsolicited comments to Lindsey about his new songs in 1978 at the Village Recorder?

He'd have mopped up the floor with her.

Mixing -- which is what the discussion appears to center on in the Destiny Rules clip -- is a musical matter, & Karen has no business jumping in ... unless the band asked her to (& if that happened, I take back all my criticism of her).

Band members, depending on their personalities, will either confront a buttinski outsider or will sit silently -- & seethe. Neither option is good for a band. Crap like that builds & builds & finally explodes one day, in some fashion or another (violent fighting, leaving, legal action).

Stevie's friends can do whatever they want if the recording project is a Stevie Nicks project. But when it's Fleetwood Mac, they should sit out in the lounge & work on crossword puzzles, like a family member waiting outside the E.R.

I am also reminded of Christine's enormously amusing remark some years back about liking the fact that Stevie's singer friends were situated out of Christine's view -- so that she wouldn't have to look at them. That says it all.

[DashingDan]

God, what an awesome comment! Imagine having to look at Elvira's (Sharon's) white-girl zombie choreography for hours at a time. I'd retch.

Originally Posted by David

I am also reminded of Christine's enormously amusing remark some years back about liking the fact that Stevie's singer friends were situated out of Christine's view -- so that she wouldn't have to look at them. That says it all.

[Nico]

Originally Posted by brysondt

Yeah, haha, she did keep saying that. I was like...ok ok, Karen is honest, and what? Lindsey never acknowledged that comment. That part is so hilarious to me on the dvd. But I'd have to say my most favorite Stevie moment from DR is when Lindsey is talking to her about "Thrown Down" and trying to get her to change the tense of a word and she just keeps saying "..but it's how I write, it's the way I write, it's the POE T that I am.." lol. I love it...Stevie...our little poet. But whats funny to me is the way Lindsey is trying to be very careful about the way he is talking to her, but she gets kinda defensive quickly. I love it, haha.

I really feel there should be a thread (or another thread) made on some of those little thing in the DR doc...because there isn't much else to talk about at the moment and they're such whiny babies.

I haven't watched the whole thing in awhile, but I do recall Karen being an extremely tall, almost Amazon-looking woman. Not in a bad way, mind you, but she looked like she could take Lindsey down...which could be part of the reason he was squealing like a little girl in that argument segment..."Jeeesus Christttt!!" Or maybe that's how he argues.

Note: Though, in truth, I'm thinking LB handled that situation effectively because it could have gone down a whole different route, though no less bitchy and whiny methinks.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Even as recently as the SYW tour they mentioned that they finally got problems solved by getting away from their representatives and handlers and just talking to one another. They certainly said that about why the Dance tour went off without any fights.

They do have a history of having people around them, but Karen is not Howard K. There are hierarchies in entourages. If Ray and Karen want to go at it, hey, I'll get ring side seats. But you should be in the same weight category to fight.

Michele

Ray's been around a lot longer than Karen. My impression of him is that he's pretty passive.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Nico

I really feel there should be a thread (or another thread) made on some of those little thing in the DR doc...because there isn't much else to talk about at the moment and they're such whiny babies.

I haven't watched the whole thing in awhile, but I do recall Karen being an extremely tall, almost Amazon-looking woman. Not in a bad way, mind you, but she looked like she could take Lindsey down...which could be part of the reason he was squealing like a little girl in that argument segment..."Jeeesus Christttt!!" Or maybe that's how he argues.

Note: Though, in truth, I'm thinking LB handled that situation effectively because it could have gone down a whole different route, though no less bitchy and whiny methinks.

If memory serves she is of average height and very average looking. There is no confusing who is the star and who is the assistant. In the few times I have seen her, I wondered if that was purposeful. I don't think she could take Lindsey down.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Ray's been around a lot longer than Karen. My impression of him is that he's pretty passive.

I thought he left LB after the last SYW tour.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

. . . I'm only talking about outsiders proffering -- unbidden -- their views on musical matters to the band circle.

Then why are you talking about Karen, who merely corroborated Stevie's statement. She in no way suggested or implied any musical direction.

Originally Posted by David

. . . Mixing -- which is what the discussion appears to center on in the Destiny Rules clip -- is a musical matter, & Karen has no business jumping in ... unless the band asked her to (& if that happened, I take back all my criticism of her).

1. Karen made no comment on the actual mixing - again, she commented only on the truth of La Nicks statement.

2. Stevie asked her to be there and Stevie is in the band.

3. You really should watch the whole thing.

. . . buttinski outsider . . . . [/QUOTE]

She did not butt in - she was asked.

Anyway - this is way too much conversation about this The clip speaks for itself.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Ray's been around a lot longer than Karen. My impression of him is that he's pretty passive.

Karen was hugging Ray during the documentary. Maybe he could take her down with pillow talk.

He used to date Sharon. I'm not sure if Karen would be more or less demanding than Sharon as a partner, but those "passive" ones are deceiving.

Michele

[Nico]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

If memory serves she is of average height and very average looking. There is no confusing who is the star and who is the assistant. In the few times I have seen her, I wondered if that was purposeful. I don't think she could take Lindsey down.

Like I said it's been awhile. She looked tall, but then everyone always seems tall to me anyway. And I was JOKING about taking LB down. I'm pretty sure people don't mess with him. He's quite calmer now, but he always gives me the impression that there's an explosive torpedo within. Love him though I do...

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

It looks like Lindsey called Tony to avoid having to spar with Karen himself, which was probably the most prudent thing to do. If Stevie and Lindsey had been having a face to face discussion and he had brought his third party manager into it, that would have been more obstructive than efficient, but since he was being confronted with Karen, calling one third person to deal with another was better than going off on Karen himself, which would have solved nothing and been unseemly.

Michele

I agree with this. And, in the end of the "argument" Stevie and Lindsey are actually saying the same thing - if they would have just listened to each other - they are both saying they should let Karen and Tony work it out....