SN: Schedule Horrific; Nearly Killed Them All

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by David

The negativity on the Ledge that brings me down isn't the negativity directed toward the band but toward other ledgies.

My view is that it's better to be nasty about Fleetwood Mac than it is to be nasty about fellow ledgies.

I reiterate: Taking potshots at Fleetwood Mac is preferable to taking potshots at other ledgies. IMO.

Hear, hear! My proposal is that we should call a cease-fire on potshots toward Fleetwood Mac and each other and aim them toward the real scourge of our existence: Bekka Bramlett!

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Well, to me it comes across as condescending. I mean, for crikeys sake, his last album had a cheesy song called "Queen of the Supermarket" on it. When was the last time Bruce Springsteen was even in a supermarket?? And his supposed "humble" nature is contrasted by the fact that he still charges $100 for a ticket to one of his concerts.

To be fair to Springsteen in interviews he said he wrote that song after going to a supermarket for the first time in years, which is probably why it turned out so bad
As for his ticket prices, personally I've found him to be one of the cheaper bigger acts. I know it cost me far less for tickets to his concerts in recent years than it has Leonard Cohen, Neil Young, Dolly Parton, Neil Diamond, Stevie Nicks or Fleetwood Mac, to name but a few.

Originally Posted by David

There's an easy fix for this! I just thought of it. TWO Rumours forums -- one for adulatory expression & one for denigratory expression. Also TWO Stevie Nicks forums, same bipartite structure. Anyone caught posting adulation in the denigration area, or denigration in the adulation area, will be warned or banned or whatever the penal code around here currently calls for.

Not joking here. Why don't we do this?

I think there's an entire board for that, it's called Seven Wonders

Originally Posted by David

The negativity on the Ledge that brings me down isn't the negativity directed toward the band but toward other ledgies.

Amen to that. And come on people, where else are we going to bitch about setlists, outfits, performances etc, and have people interested, than on a messageboard about the band? It seems silly to me to complain about negativity or worse start taking it out on other Ledges because they don't blindly idolise the band, when all it means is that they are passionate about the band and their music.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by Steviefan49

Actually - what gets us in trouble- is when other Ledgies "suggest" to member's like myself, that we need to go "elsewhere" and I've actually been a lurker of this board from about 2000 on... I had a lot of Ledgies whom I met up with at a SYW show in Dallas in 2003- and to me, it doesn't matter how long a person has been on this board or not... to me, it's all in how, not only the posts come across regarding the band, as that's why we are all here, but yes.. the putting down of each other is pretty sorry too, and what you said to me, was ok, right????

Sweetheart, if you reread carefully my post, I was in no way telling you to leave. In fact, I said "who am I to suggest that?" I'm just questioning your logic, please stop taking that as a personal attack. Let's put emotion aside and try to dig into logic. I'm asking you to explain how you feel WITHOUT calling others names. What I was getting at in my post honey, was if you dislike the essence of this board so much, why be a supporter, and why invest your time, money, energy, emotions, and blood pressure to it? That's in no way telling you to hit the door. Again, I'm just a lowly board member. Hell, even if I WERE a moderator/owner I wouldn't do that. I find opposing viewpoints interesting and fun! Truly! Just keep in mind, if everything I say isn't flowery and sweet, it's just my way of trying to explore an issue. I'm actually very interested in your (and others) thought processes, why you feel the way you do, and am trying to get you to explain it to me. Obviously we've got very different ways of approaching fandom. And that's ok!

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Hear, hear! My proposal is that we should call a cease-fire on potshots toward Fleetwood Mac and each other and aim them toward the real scourge of our existence: Bekka Bramlett!

Now THAT I can agree to! I detested her presence in the Mac!

[steviefan59]

hey david...i have never named called on here in the years i have been a member so u can scratch that off ur list...second of all lets just give respect some due here...is there anyone on her who is happy with the way this friggen thread has progressed...and its not just this thread...its been going on for quite a while...i think u dont realize there are still young members on here who idolize stevie and lindsey...they dont need to read all this negative crap...it just seems there are some very unhappy ppl on this board who PICK APART EVERY LITTLE FLAW in stevies performance...i know ur a mac fan and that u go to a lot of shows so are u suggesting becka bramlet would be better for fm than stevie? or anyone else for that matter...what if God forbid lindsey has an off nite and some ppl came on and said lindsey should retire...get my point here david? give credit where its due...they're all in their 60s and they're all still rocking so God bless them all and i hope they keep doing it until they decide to retire...hugs pat

[Steviefan49]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Hear, hear! My proposal is that we should call a cease-fire on potshots toward Fleetwood Mac and each other and aim them toward the real scourge of our existence: Bekka Bramlett!

Hilarious.. ROTFL.. There ya go!

[Steviefan49]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Sweetheart, if you reread carefully my post, I was in no way telling you to leave. In fact, I said "who am I to suggest that?" I'm just questioning your logic, please stop taking that as a personal attack. Let's put emotion aside and try to dig into logic. I'm asking you to explain how you feel WITHOUT calling others names. What I was getting at in my post honey, was if you dislike the essence of this board so much, why be a supporter, and why invest your time, money, energy, emotions, and blood pressure to it? That's in no way telling you to hit the door. Again, I'm just a lowly board member. Hell, even if I WERE a moderator/owner I wouldn't do that. I find opposing viewpoints interesting and fun! Truly! Just keep in mind, if everything I say isn't flowery and sweet, it's just my way of trying to explore an issue. I'm actually very interested in your (and others) thought processes, why you feel the way you do, and am trying to get you to explain it to me. Obviously we've got very different ways of approaching fandom. And that's ok!

Sweetheart... all of "MY" posts exist with logic! I wish others would! It's unfortunate that they don't! I'm definitely questioning your logic... as I've never taken anything out of context as it was said... If you'd like to talk about the use of proper English, I've been on the planet a few years longer than you, and would love to conversate properly! And... I may add, WITHOUT calling other's names, as I didn't say anything that wasn't deserved, and... maybe you can do the same.. but I don't owe you, or anyone else an explanation as to why I'm a "Supporting Member" here! Maybe you can put 2 and 2 together and actually figure that one out...

[David]

Originally Posted by steviefan59

hey david...i have never named called on here in the years i have been a member so u can scratch that off ur list...second of all lets just give respect some due here...is there anyone on her who is happy with the way this friggen thread has progressed...

I'm enjoying myself, personally.

i think u dont realize there are still young members on here who idolize stevie and lindsey...

I realize that.

they dont need to read all this negative crap...

You mean the opinions of ledgies who have different views from yours?

it just seems there are some very unhappy ppl on this board who PICK APART EVERY LITTLE FLAW in stevies performance...

Hence the term "forum" -- as in "opinion forum," etc.

i know ur a mac fan and that u go to a lot of shows so are u suggesting becka bramlet would be better for fm than stevie?

What's wrong with that?

what if God forbid lindsey has an off nite and some ppl came on and said lindsey should retire...

I think he should stop singing in public, personally.

get my point here david?

Yes, pat. Thanks.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I think at this point in the game, the closest thing we can compare the Mac/Stevie to are pro athletes. The thing is, when runners, basketball players, golfers, etc get to a point where they can no longer be physically competitive, then they get out of the professional game, period. They may transfer their careers into related arenas (being a commentator, doing the occasional charity sporting event, etc), but the point is, they throw in the towel professionally when it's time. Even their biggest fans will admit when that time has come. I just don't see how it's sacrilige if someone feels that Stevie has clearly slipped, and it might be time for her to consider moving on. Or, that if Stevie is so miserable in the Mac, then she might want to consider keeping it solo, or focus on her Rhiannoning . It's just an opinion, and opinions never hurt anybody... . Mind expansion, debate, and hearing opposite opinions certainly never hurt anybody either.

I just don't get the whole Stevie is slipping or athlete comparison. Maybe if the athlete we compare her to is Terrel Owens. He's getting up there in age not the reciever he was 10 years ago (ie Stevie before 1986) but he's still an AMAZING reciever, who has a bit of an attitude problem and has basically admitted to not giving it his all 100 percent of the time. He can at times still be the best player on the field when he's not whinning or phonning it in. Stevie is phonning in the majority of the unleashed concerts, but for me personally Storms alone being played for the first time ever and Stevie singing so freaking well more then makes up for the rest of the show. Her having retired or gone into broadcasting before this tour would've robbed us out of those performances and for that 6 minutes she is still the star wide reciever. And in addition to Storms I among many others including Brian who has been to or at least seen hundreds of bootlegs of Gold Dust Woman called her performance of GDW a week ago the best ever.

She's in no way slipping to me at least not going on Modern Stevie Era levels of we'll say Dance onward. She has a very valid point with the schedule and is simply conserving most of energy and really focusing on great vocal performances and knows she can rely on Lindsey to carry the show from start to finish.

And I think I gave myself my new sig- Stevie Nicks- "The TO of Fleetwood Mac"

[David]

Originally Posted by michelej1

There are things I don't like about this board, but the critical band posts in this thread are not among them.

I'm honestly confused about what constitutes acceptable negativity & what constitutes unacceptable negativity.

People keep saying that it's OK to voice your opinions, but don't go too far, as it were. I don't know how the distinction between acceptable & unacceptable is outlined, or where in the Dirt of Negativity the actual Line of Acceptability is drawn. I'd need actual examples of the respective categories. (I promise to stop allegorizing like Everyman.)

If I say (as I did after seeing the Mac in 2003 in Anaheim) that "Stevie Nicks was zonked," is that acceptable or unacceptable to the ledgies who are mad at me?

What about if I say (as I just did further down in this thread) that "Lindsey should stop singing in public"? Acceptably negative or unacceptably so?

How about "Mick can't keep time anymore worth a squat"? How about "Stevie IS Fleetwood Mac"? Someone's bound to be insulted by that, after all.

Suggestion for fellow forum members: If someone says something about the band with which you disagree, reply by highlighting the section with which you disagree & then explain your disagreement, providing your alternative views.

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Steviefan49

Well, that's a toss up, as the ones of us that do understand the dynamic can come on and post our opinions in a nice way, without being ugly like the posts I have seen have been.

WELCOME EVERYBODY!

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by David

I'm honestly confused about what constitutes acceptable negativity & what constitutes unacceptable negativity.

People keep saying that it's OK to voice your opinions, but don't go too far, as it were. I don't know how the distinction between acceptable & unacceptable is outlined, or where in the Dirt of Negativity the actual Line of Acceptability is drawn. I'd need actual examples of the respective categories. (I promise to stop allegorizing like Everyman.)

If I say (as I did after seeing the Mac in 2003 in Anaheim) that "Stevie Nicks was zonked," is that acceptable or unacceptable to the ledgies who are mad at me?

What about if I say (as I just did further down in this thread) that "Lindsey should stop singing in public"? Acceptably negative or unacceptably so?

How about "Mick can't keep time anymore worth a squat"? How about "Stevie IS Fleetwood Mac"? Someone's bound to be insulted by that, after all.

Suggestion for fellow forum members: If someone says something about the band with which you disagree, reply by highlighting the section with which you disagree & then explain your disagreement, providing your alternative views.

They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say.... "let em crash!!"

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

And I think I gave myself my new sig- Stevie Nicks- "The TO of Fleetwood Mac"

hahaha... and somehow i'm the nut...

[Johnny Stew]

I haven't read every single post in this long thread -- I'd be here all day. But I saw one of Louie's posts a few pages back, and wanted to respond.

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Stevie is my absolute all time fav celebrity, vocalist, songwriter, and style icon, period. I adore the woman, no matter how nutty and annoying she can be. I do have to admit, her attitude and performances as of late have certainly muddied some of that for me.

Stevie is phoning in her performances, refusing to interact with the audience or the rest of the band, and badmouthing the band, touring, and the record buying public every chance she gets.

Louie, my friend -- in all the most recent interviews, where has Stevie badmouthed the rest of Fleetwood Mac? If she has, I completely missed that. Also what's this about her "refusing" to interact with the rest of the band? I haven't been to any of the shows (I believe you've said that you haven't either), but I've read many times about her going over to John and sharing a laugh with him. Smiling and making faces with Mick. Laying her head on Lindsey during the end of "Sara." Holding hands with him. Etc., etc. And she certainly looks content enough to me in the pics I've seen.

When it comes to her statement about the tour -- as I read it, she wasn't bashing the tour itself, only the schedule. Reminds me of the time on 'The Osbournes' (yes, I admit to having watched a few episodes) when Ozzy was in a complete tizzy because they scheduled him to perform two concerts in a row (he's the same age as Stevie, for the record).

One can still love performing while also not wanting to utterly exhaust themselves in the process. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

As far as her comment that "people are stealing our music" -- it can't be bashing when it's the truth. Just about every single artist in the music industry will corroborate her statement. On the positive side, she's said on several recent occasions that she wants to make new music again, whether it's commercially successful or not. So she seems to be coming around again.

[*** I should note that the following is no longer in response to Louie.]

Despite my reputation as a "Stevie Defender," I've never been opposed to criticisms of her or the band, so long as they're presented fairly or reasonably (of course, I fully recognize that everyone has their own perspective on what's "fair" or "reasonable").

David O., for example, can completely break down every single aspect that he doesn't enjoy about a track (oftentimes one of my favorites), and I thoroughly enjoy reading what he has to say -- because his tone is calm and rational, and his opinion has been well articulated.

Maybe, and I could be wrong here, but just maybe some of the people who express displeasure with the tone of certain threads, aren't against criticism, per se, but the sometimes over-the-top, seemingly unrelenting way it's presented. Although they most certainly shouldn't use that as an opportunity to bash other Ledgies. The carping and passive-aggressive sniping is the worst part of any message board, and one would hope that anyone over the age of 15 would move beyond that.

Stevie's withstood 35 years worth of criticism, and she's still around. Her career isn't going to suddenly end because of criticisms presented on a message board. Plus, the people on here who criticize her, do still buy the albums, still go to the concerts, or at the very least still spend their valuable time talking about her. She's only really in trouble when all of that stops.

[Street_Dreamer]

Personally, I think some people need to grow thicker skin. This is nothing compared to some of the negative criticism I've seen in the past regarding Stevie or other members of the band.

Matt