SN: Schedule Horrific; Nearly Killed Them All

[jbrownsjr]

Originally Posted by Steviefan49

Thank you! And thanks to all that have mentioned the fact that these people AREN'T in their friggen 30's anymore! It's hard enough just to travel from place to place and bounce back- and then go into a show every other night! I don't know how they do it! And RIGHT ON- to Steviefan59! I, too can't believe the negativity on this board- and it's SOOO embarrassing to know that it's SOOO noticable- it's being mentioned on the other boards! How embarrassing!

Honestly no offense, but I love this board because it has a backbone. I love reading many of the different opinions on here... I love the humor and sarcasm the members come up with... I love that we have a few insiders that either confirm or deny our assumptions... I love that if I spell a FM member's name wrong or mispunctuate I'll get flamed into the fires of mordor!!!

This board is a force that's better than the sum of it's parts. Isn't that weird?!?! It is pretty weird... Welcome EVERYBODY!!!

[Steviefan49]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

And I just can't wrap my mind around the logic that we're all supposed to always agree, and blindly love and accept all things Mac around here . I also can't understand why you're embarassed about a message board? I don't really think that message board activity has much to do with the person you are in your daily, REAL life. And if it's such an "embarassment" in your 'online life,' why waste time here? I'm not trying to be nasty at all, or suggest you go elsewhere (who am I to do that?). I'm just trying to understand your (and other similar people's) thought processes. Do you not want there to be healthy, intelligent discussion and debate about very real Mac topics? The things we discuss and debate are real, factual issues. Most people for this tour are complaining about Stevie's performance quality. Obviously that's highly subjective, but if people go to concerts, or watch vids on youtube, it's not blind speculation or unfounded rumor starting. We're just discussing tangible stuff, stuff that can physically be seen by ever last one of our eyes. It's not like I'm making up that Stevie probably has cottage cheese thighs, and that MUST be what's causing her perfomance slips! Or that her magical witchery and satanic cult following has clearly built up in her bloodstream over time, poisoning her performances .

I think at this point in the game, the closest thing we can compare the Mac/Stevie to are pro athletes. The thing is, when runners, basketball players, golfers, etc get to a point where they can no longer be physically competitive, then they get out of the professional game, period. They may transfer their careers into related arenas (being a commentator, doing the occasional charity sporting event, etc), but the point is, they throw in the towel professionally when it's time. Even their biggest fans will admit when that time has come. I just don't see how it's sacrilige if someone feels that Stevie has clearly slipped, and it might be time for her to consider moving on. Or, that if Stevie is so miserable in the Mac, then she might want to consider keeping it solo, or focus on her Rhiannoning . It's just an opinion, and opinions never hurt anybody... . Mind expansion, debate, and hearing opposite opinions certainly never hurt anybody either.

First of all...WOW are you shallow! LOL.. When has anyone actually come on here and said that EVERYONE is supposed to "Agree"??? Everyone has different opionions- Secondly.. "You're asking me WHY I would be embarrassed of a message board with SOOOO much negativity that it has been noticed by MANY people in the "Stevie/FM Community" and has flowed over to other boards??? I can't even believe you're asking ME such a silly question!! - That just tells me you dont have much common sense. I'm not only a member of this group- but a "SUPPORTING Member" who as DeeGeMe mentioned- loved coming on and seeing the balance of this group- which was fair! Now... if you DARE open your mouth to mention anything GOOD about Stevie- one seems to have their freakin heads blown off! It's WORSE then horrible!

Third of all- Yes, you ARE Nasty in asking ME "WHY I DON"T GO ELSEWHERE- when "I" pay good MONEY to be here! Maybe you can consider that one- since you don't! Or maybe try consider- "RE-Considering" some of your negativity- and have just a tad more respect about some of the other members who "DO" happen to love Stevie and the Mac, and who like me, have gone back with them for over 35 years!!!!

[Steviefan49]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Honestly no offense, but I love this board because it has a backbone. I love reading many of the different opinions on here... I love the humor and sarcasm the members come up with... I love that we have a few insiders that either confirm or deny our assumptions... I love that if I spell a FM member's name wrong or mispunctuate I'll get flamed into the fires of mordor!!!

This board is a force that's better than the sum of it's parts. Isn't that weird?!?! It is pretty weird... Welcome EVERYBODY!!!

I will say that it "used" to be a fun place to come to see everyone's differences of opion- as they were all spoken in a completely different manner then they are being spoken in today! When I hear that the negativity from this board has been carried over to other "Stevie/FM"boards, then it's gotten out of hand, IMO..

[David]

Originally Posted by steviefan59

holy crap...this board has turned negativity into a credo...

The negativity on the Ledge that brings me down isn't the negativity directed toward the band but toward other ledgies.

i'm on several boards and i have to say that if u dont like stevie thats fine but there are a lot of us who love her...ur all entitled to ur own opinions but sometimes ur opinions are just plain nasty...

My view is that it's better to be nasty about Fleetwood Mac than it is to be nasty about fellow ledgies.

stevie nicks is fleetwood mac...lindsey buckingham is fleetwood mac...they've tried it with other members and it just didnt work...

I thought it worked beautifully back when a bunch of guys recorded "Man of the World" & "Before the Beginning." I spent about an hour yesterday on YouTube watching all the "Man of the World" covers, by kids with guitars & bar bands & even Midge Ure, & I absolutely loved hearing everyone's take on such a beautiful song, a song that insinuates itself into one's consciousness & doesn't let up.

u guys should be greatful that she and lindsey are able to get up there night after night and try to put on the best show they can...

Why is it important to you that I be grateful to Lindsey & Stevie? Isn't it sufficient that you're grateful, if that's how you feel?

all this crap makes me down right pissed...

I reiterate: Taking potshots at Fleetwood Mac is preferable to taking potshots at other ledgies. IMO.

have u ever heard the phrase "if u can't say something nice about someone don't say anything at all"?

Sort of puts a clog in the Ledge sink though, doesn't it? Maybe we can start by not yelling at other ledgies for saying what they want to say about Fleetwood Mac? Just a thought.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by Steviefan49

I will say that it "used" to be a fun place to come to see everyone's differences of opion- as they were all spoken in a completely different manner then they are being spoken in today! When I hear that the negativity from this board has been carried over to other "Stevie/FM"boards, then it's gotten out of hand, IMO..

Ok, I'm gonna try once again to sanely explain my thoughts to you. I wish you'd stop feeling like anyone who disagrees with you is attacking you, because that simply isn't the case. I've been a member here for 8 years, and was a lurker here long before that (I see you've been a member for about 2). I can say with the years I've been here, that the Ledge has ALWAYS been very aggressive and passionate. It ebbs and flows, but overall it's ALWAYS been a fiery place. At first it was intimidating, and I viewed it to be a lot of negativity... but as time passed, I saw that was not the case at all. People just had different ideas, and liked to discuss them in sometimes heated fashions. Kinda like The View . I've been members of other Mac boards, and over the years the Ledge has been the only one that's kept me coming back. Why? The absolutely variety of people, and the huge amount of information and highly varied experiences and points of view.

And before you get preachy about people once speaking differences of opinion around here in a more civil fashion, just look at the way you just responded to me. I haven't called you any names, but when I disagreed with you, you called me a laundry list of names: shallow, lacking common sense, etc.

I see you've been a fan for 35 years, you're a Ledge supporter, etc. I truly think all that's great. Says a lot about the band, that they have such lifelong fans. I've been a fan for close to 20 myself. And honestly, if I didn't think the Mac brand was a great thing, I wouldn't be here myself. Just think about it that way. Over my two decades of fandom, I've seen the band and it's members go through good and bad periods. I personally saw the Time lineup perform, and if you think I'm bitching now, you shoulda heard me back then! Honestly, my biggest beef with the band/Stevie right now is the lack of new material, and Stevie's very blase attitude on stage and in the press. And for the record, I've got NO problems pointing out the good too! I about peed my pants when the band pulled out Storms for this tour. I ADORE Stevie's burgandy dress. I think Lindsey's energy and passion on stage is FANTASTIC! I just think Stevie's acting like a spoiled, pouting rock star right now. A big part of me is totally upset they are touring right now instead of recording, because I TRULY think that S&L are at the top of their songwriting games. I'm just so afraid that this tour is going to cause more tension and petty infighting between the two, and we won't see one last great Mac album. See? I'm not a COMPLETELY negative nelly! And these are my opinions, and I'm sticking to them!

[Steviefan49]

Originally Posted by David

The negativity on the Ledge that brings me down isn't the negativity directed toward the band but toward other ledgies.

My view is that it's better to be nasty about Fleetwood Mac than it is to be nasty about fellow ledgies.

I thought it worked beautifully back when a bunch of guys recorded "Man of the World" & "Before the Beginning." I spent about an hour yesterday on YouTube watching all the "Man of the World" covers, by kids with guitars & bar bands & even Midge Ure, & I absolutely loved hearing everyone's take on such a beautiful song, a song that insinuates itself into one's consciousness & doesn't let up.

Why is it important to you that I be grateful to Lindsey & Stevie? Isn't it sufficient that you're grateful, if that's how you feel?

I reiterate: Taking potshots at Fleetwood Mac is preferable to taking potshots at other ledgies. IMO.

Sort of puts a clog in the Ledge sink though, doesn't it? Maybe we can start by not yelling at other ledgies for saying what they want to say about Fleetwood Mac? Just a thought.

Hey David..

The point you seem to be missing here.. is "this" is supposed to be a "Stevie/FM" board, right? The negativity that people are seeing, comes from people directing it TOWARD the band! That's the sad thing! No one is saying that people aren't entitled entitled to their opinions- but the stuff that has come across that I've read- well, I didn't even want to be "involved" with this thread in the first place as my blood pressure was off the charts due to the rediculous comments "Toward the band"... No one has come on and said that everyone is supposed to adore the band 24/7, as that is always why I came on here in the first place- to read the gentle differences of opinion... Everyone knows "how" to go about saying things without "dissing" the band- that is why we are all on this list for, in the first place! To me, it's gotten so out of hand, that when other boards have a thread devoted to OUR board, and the negativity from it, then that's pretty sad, JMO...

I've made some fantastic friend's here, and appreciate people's differences of opinion, but have a zero tolerance for when the negativity gets out of hand, as it is, then it's a sad day, again - JMO

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by David

The negativity on the Ledge that brings me down isn't the negativity directed toward the band but toward other ledgies.

My view is that it's better to be nasty about Fleetwood Mac than it is to be nasty about fellow ledgies.

I thought it worked beautifully back when a bunch of guys recorded "Man of the World" & "Before the Beginning." I spent about an hour yesterday on YouTube watching all the "Man of the World" covers, by kids with guitars & bar bands & even Midge Ure, & I absolutely loved hearing everyone's take on such a beautiful song, a song that insinuates itself into one's consciousness & doesn't let up.

Why is it important to you that I be grateful to Lindsey & Stevie? Isn't it sufficient that you're grateful, if that's how you feel?

I reiterate: Taking potshots at Fleetwood Mac is preferable to taking potshots at other ledgies. IMO.

Sort of puts a clog in the Ledge sink though, doesn't it? Maybe we can start by not yelling at other ledgies for saying what they want to say about Fleetwood Mac? Just a thought.

Thank you!! THat's all I've been trying to say! I think differing opinions is a GOOD thing! But when other Ledgies start calling each other "shallow" and "lacking common sense," THAT'S when we get into trouble! We can all be fans in our own ways, and that's the way it should be. Bring on the healthy, intelligent Mac debate! That's what we're here for anyway!

[jbrownsjr]

Is it me, or do other ledgies find that the most obnoxious posts are posts from people that don't really understand the history of dynamic of what I call Fleetwood Mac....???

I tender this question to the experts...

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Is it me, or do other ledgies find that the most obnoxious posts are posts from people that don't really understand the history of dynamic of what I call Fleetwood Mac....???

I tender this question to the experts...

That's a good point. So many people are crying for us all to be lovey dovey... when the Mac, even to this day, has ALWAYS been a very heated, fractional, infighting entity. Heck, the stuff that goes on at this message board is CHILD'S PLAY compared to the stuff these kids are STILL doing to one another! Let's all lighten up!

[michelej1]

There are things I don't like about this board, but the critical band posts in this thread are not among them.

Michele

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by michelej1

There are things I don't like about this board, but the critical band posts in this thread are not among them.

Michele

Same here. The way I figure it, all of us fans have collectively paid the Mac's bills for the past several decades. For all intensive purposes, we're their employers. So we not only have a right to view their work with a critical eye, it's our responsibility. When was the last time any of us could tell our employers that they weren't allowed to critique our job performance?

Case and point. Stevie herself feels Street Angel was a clunker (I actually highly disagree, I think there are some real gems on that ablum). Obviously the fans agreed, and didn't buy the album. This caused Stevie to step it up for her next album, which she did! TISL was fantastic! She realized through poor sales and reviews, that she wasn't living up to her full potential as an artist, and she corrected it! Maybe, just maybe the band will be able to do the same after this tour. They aren't selling like they used to, so maybe they will realize they need to hit the studio, blow us out of the water with one hell of an album, then hit the touring circuit again with new vigor. One can dream, right?

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

They aren't selling like they used to, so maybe they will realize they need to hit the studio, blow us out of the water with one hell of an album, then hit the touring circuit again with new vigor. One can dream, right?

That's the spirit!

[Steviefan49]

Originally Posted by jbrownsjr

Is it me, or do other ledgies find that the most obnoxious posts are posts from people that don't really understand the history of dynamic of what I call Fleetwood Mac....???

I tender this question to the experts...

Well, that's a toss up, as the ones of us that do understand the dynamic can come on and post our opinions in a nice way, without being ugly like the posts I have seen have been.

[Steviefan49]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Thank you!! THat's all I've been trying to say! I think differing opinions is a GOOD thing! But when other Ledgies start calling each other "shallow" and "lacking common sense," THAT'S when we get into trouble! We can all be fans in our own ways, and that's the way it should be. Bring on the healthy, intelligent Mac debate! That's what we're here for anyway!

Actually - what gets us in trouble- is when other Ledgies "suggest" to member's like myself, that we need to go "elsewhere" and I've actually been a lurker of this board from about 2000 on... I had a lot of Ledgies whom I met up with at a SYW show in Dallas in 2003- and to me, it doesn't matter how long a person has been on this board or not... to me, it's all in how, not only the posts come across regarding the band, as that's why we are all here, but yes.. the putting down of each other is pretty sorry too, and what you said to me, was ok, right???? NOT!!

[Street_Dreamer]

The reason so many of us are "negative" with our posts is because we care so much about the band. We've poured so much time and money and love to these people that it's hard for some of us to not get offended when we read the kind of comments that Stevie (for example) has said in recent times. I know in my case it would cost several hundred dollars just to go to one Fleetwood Mac concert this year, which is why I cannot and will not be able to see them on this tour. I reckon that it's the same way for a good number of people on this board. I find it offensive that any of the band (or any musician for that matter) would complain about touring. You're getting paid thousands of dollars to sing and play instruments, you agreed to perform all these dates, go out there, suck it up and do it!

Let's be realistic, nobody has posted anything that's too harsh or too criticial or too personal in this thread. I've seen and read postings far worse than anything that's been said here.

Matt