racism

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by skcin

How dare you assume that, you racist.

oh great, now the cronies are really rolling in.

Seriously. It's gotten to the point that people are fearful of mentioning anything about someone's apprearance to describe them. I could understand of someone said "hey, there was this n*gger at the show I was at!" or "see the guy over there, the gook?" Obviously racially insensitive & rude. If someone said "wtf is that spic doing at a Mac show?" Yeah, that's ****ty. I remember getting into an argument with Amber years ago because she said she saw a "chocolate fan" at a show. I thought it was offensive at the time, and she felt there was nothing wrong with saying that since her friend (who is black) had said the same thing, in those words.

thanks, now i want chocolate.

But to simply mention someone's color/appearance & comment that you wouldn't have expected to see them at a show? What's wrong with that? We have 4 nurses @ work, 3 are white & 1 is black. our students often speak very limited English. When we ask them who they were treated by & they can't recall the nurse's name, we sometimes have to start with "is she white or black?" and move on from there to height, glasses or no glasses, hair color, etc. I have yet to find someone who is offended by this - nurses OR patients.

Specifically to the Mac show & the Philly thread, would we be discussing this at all had Hejira said "there was this really young teenager at the show, I thought that was really cool." I think not. Even though he's assuming that a young teen wouldn't normally be a fan & he's assuming things about his/her culture & upbringing that he is basing soley on age/appearance? Thoughts?

yeah, i don't think people would be as up in arms. race and sex seem push people's buttons more than others. to ignore race entirely is illogical. right now i am reading fannie flagg's fried green tomatoes - big parts of the story would be nonsensical and pointless without racial descriptors. and the same goes for sex. i know a person who wants to remove first names and gender-specific pronouns from the history books because history is "biased" against women and she thinks that girls get discouraged reading about dead white guys running the world.

on. what. planet?

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by skcin

I could understand of someone said "hey, there was this n*gger at the show I was at!" or "see the guy over there, the gook?" Obviously racially insensitive & rude. If someone said "wtf is that spic doing at a Mac show?" Yeah, that's ****ty.

Yay, thank you- I was going to try and phrase something like that, but couldn't figure out how.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by jannieC

Yay, thank you- I was going to try and phrase something like that, but couldn't figure out how.

Okay... so what about the use of the term "African American" vs. "black?" One of the problems I have with the term "African American" is that it only applies to residents of one particular continent. What if a person is from the UK or an actual country in Africa? They are not "African Americans" simply by being physically present in the Americas. Or maybe they are? And would they take offense at being called "American?" By contrast "black" is an actual ethnic descriptor, and it is officially recognized as a demographic characteristic by most organizations.

As you can tell, I use the term "black" liberally, yet I sometimes feel an irrational chill when I use the term. My rational mind knows it's appropriate, but somehow, with all of this PC baloney, my subconscious is urging me to use AA instead, just in case...

[jannieC]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Okay... so what about the use of the term "African American" vs. "black?" One of the problems I have with the term "African American" is that it only applies to residents of one particular continent. What if a person is from the UK or an actual country in Africa? They are not "African Americans" simply by being physically present in the Americas. Or maybe they are? And would they take offense at being called "American?" By contrast "black" is an actual ethnic descriptor, and it is officially recognized as a demographic characteristic by most organizations.

As you can tell, I use the term "black" liberally, yet I sometimes feel an irrational chill when I use the term. My rational mind knows it's appropriate, but somehow, with all of this PC baloney, my subconscious is urging me to use AA instead, just in case...

Professionally, I say, "African American" because god forbid, right? But personally, I say "black". Most people I know who are black, say "black". But there were some people in school that were ultra PC and would only use terms like African American, etc.

[skcin]

^ None of my black friends are offended when I describe them as black, even if they self-identify as African American. It does get tricky, though, you're right - I work at a college & our student population is almost 15% international students. One of our student asistants is from jamaica, another employee is Haitian. While I don't believe they are offended if referred to as AA, it's not really their actual heritage.

[Miss Vicky]

Just out of curiousity, how many Asians have people seen at the show? Not a lot, I would assume - judging by my own experiences. While I don't find Hejira's statement to be particularly offensive or racist, I strongly suspect that if someone had had a similar experience in spotting an Asian fan on the bus and commenting that "it warmed their heart to think that, on some rough and tumble block in Chinatown, there is a young asian boy grooving to "Gypsy" through his headphones as he walks down the sidewalk" he'd be all over it slinging his own accusations of racism.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

Just out of curiousity, how many Asians have people seen at the show? Not a lot, I would assume - judging by my own experiences. While I don't find Hejira's statement to be particularly offensive or racist, I strongly suspect that if someone had had a similar experience in spotting an Asian fan on the bus and commenting that "it warmed their heart to think that, on some rough and tumble block in Chinatown, there is a young asian boy grooving to "Gypsy" through his headphones as he walks down the sidewalk" he'd be all over it slinging his own accusations of racism.

Please don't speak on my behalf. You don't know who I am and you don't know what I'd think, so please do us all a favor and p*ss off. And what part of "she's from West Philly" don't you understand? And my observations were as much about her age as her ethnicity, yet you can only harp on the ethnic aspect of it. You have repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance on all kinds of matters here previously so why did you finally come out of the dank cellar to start spewing your garbage again? Seriously... please stop it.

[Miss Vicky]

I never said that I "know" what you would do. I said that I "suspect" that's what you would do. I also said that I didn't find your original comment to be racist, but you choose to demonstrate your own ignorance by ignoring that part of my post.

In any case, I simply stated what I know I'm not alone in thinking.

P.S.

I "harped" only on the ethnic aspect of the post because this is a thread about racism.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

I never said that I "know" what you would do. I said that I "suspect" that's what you would do. I also said that I didn't find your original comment to be racist, but you choose to demonstrate your own ignorance by ignoring that part of my post.

In any case, I simply stated what I know I'm not alone in thinking.

Well your suspicion is dead wrong. And your whole analogy is completely off-base and incorrect. Furthermore you were clearly harping on the race thing since you didn't mention age.

Trying to deal rationally with you is like pissing in the wind. No, scratch that... it's less productive than pissing in the wind- at least I get a sense of relief.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Furthermore you were clearly harping on the race thing since you didn't mention age.

This is a thread about racism, as the title clearly states.

[skcin]

Um. What just happened? A simple "no, I would NOT do that" would suffice, rather than telling a person to shut up & go away. I thought this thread was going well & we were actually having a discussion without getting personal &/or defensive and slinging mud at one another. But OK. That's just my 2 cents.

[Miss Vicky]

The point of my post wasn't really to "sling mud" - though it's no secret that he and I are not especially fond of each other. Okay, well maybe a little mud slinging was intended. But really I don't think the post that led to this thread was racist, however - given his history of (over) sensitivy regarding perceived racism against Asians, he might have chosen to word his original post a little differently or even thought better of posting it at all, since it could be - and was - perceived as racist.

[carrie721]

it almost feels like the good old days.

[strandinthewind]

Only race - and particularly black - gets people up in arms when white people refer to it in any way other than praise.

For example, no one gets nearly as upset (if they get upset at all) when people refer to people as that "girl" over there, that "redneck" over there, that "old dude" over there, that "fat chick" over there, those "queens" over there, etc. Moreover, if someone said "that Asian girl was grooving at the concert," no one would have batted an eye. Yet, when HNY referred to this girl as black, he was branded by some as a horrible racist.

HNY also referred to her as being from West Philly. However, I believe the girl told him where she was from etc. Upon learning this tidbit, those attacking HNY never apologized for being dead wrong about automatically assuming HNY assumed, in a racist manner, that she was from there. That speaks volumes

In the end, true racism (a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race/racial prejudice or discrimination) is a vile thing. I think we as individuals and as a society should all go out of our way to eradicate it - the sooner the better. Yet, I can assure you that the people on here that took offense at HNY's clearly non-racist comment will think that I am a horrible racist for even bringing this up; they will refuse to believe I mean the first and second sentences of this paragraph. That is an example of how ridiculous our society has become.

Also, I used the phrase "common black vernacular" or something like that awhile back in a conversation where that point was relevant. I got SLAMMED publicly and privately as a racist. To me, that is ridiculous because what I said was a fact. There is such a thing as ghetto speak or whatever. Black people refer to it constantly as "going all ghetto" etc. Yet, when I say it in the non-racist way that I did - all hell breaks loose. People could not see the forest for the trees.

So, in the end, unless a white person praises a black person, they are better off not mentioning anything about race no matter how innocent. That is how absurd PC has become.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by carrie721

it almost feels like the good old days.

Bow me white bi*ch

You split tails are luck you got the vote