Thrown Down - the song

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Well no, because the band aren't losing money by us trading a bootleg (given that the vast majority of people who collect bootlegs have all the commercially available material anyway). But if I posted Say You Will on this board the band would probably lose quite a few sales but if I posted a bootleg of a concert the only person losing a sale would be somebody illegally selling it. IMO anyway.

Yes this is true, except that it is fair to say that Stevie (etc) would be against the distribution of demos that were never intended to be heard. Believe me I've had the lecture from Ginny Kamano on this issue (remember her?).

It is quite interesting that any google search will find you pretty much every FM album ever released available for illegal download. Which makes you think that people will still buy legitimate copies regardless of whether they have or can obtain illegal ones.

Sometimes it is just a good way to either introduce someone to a song or album. Sure, I agree that you shouldn't just post up a link so that everyone can download the album, but I don't believe it hurts to share a little with someone in the interests of promoting the band and its music.

[DigYourGrave]

Originally Posted by TheScoop

Um, well if you don't have a dollar to spend on it, then maybe you don't deserve to have it.

A bit harsh wasn't it??

You could have made your point without being a smartass..

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Yes this is true, except that it is fair to say that Stevie (etc) would be against the distribution of demos that were never intended to be heard. Believe me I've had the lecture from Ginny Kamano on this issue (remember her?).

It is quite interesting that any google search will find you pretty much every FM album ever released available for illegal download. Which makes you think that people will still buy legitimate copies regardless of whether they have or can obtain illegal ones.

Sometimes it is just a good way to either introduce someone to a song or album. Sure, I agree that you shouldn't just post up a link so that everyone can download the album, but I don't believe it hurts to share a little with someone in the interests of promoting the band and its music.

Yes, that's fine but those blogs are taken down every day. I've seen it happen. I'm not giving a big speech on how you shouldn't download stuff for free, believe me, All I'm saying is that if Michele doesn't want to get a reputation for being a board that gives away stuff you can easily buy, then it's her right, as it was the previous owner Marty's, to say no to commercially released stuff being posted on this board. And given the longevity on The Ledge I think it's a policy that has worked so far.
Plus, given it's so easy to download their albums for free, then anyone who knows how to use Google shouldn't have to ask here anyway.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Although everyone seems quite happy to post illegally obtained demos and bootlegs. Weird world isn't it?

Apples and oranges. And no one can really prove they were illegally obtained. That's a legal question. Also, it's well known that Ms. Nicks gave copies of her working versions (on cassette of course) to her friends and family who then in turn made copies for their friends, etc. The master reels were bought from an auction of a storage unit once owned by the now defunct Modern Records. I'm not an attorney so I can't even begin to sort out what is legal with that and what is not. All I know is that those recordings gave many of us tremendous enjoyment and a great insight into Stevie's artistic process. I don't think there's a Stevie fan on here who wouldn't buy those were they to be commercially released.
Yes there was the incident where the demos were stolen from her and she was justifiably angry.
I'm not about to post and mp3 of something that the band has worked on and released commercially, especially when you can download it for 99 cents. That's taking money out of their pocket and it's not fair. Everyone deserves to be paid for their work. As I stated above, the unreleased stuff, alternate takes and live shows aren't a problem to me because a) I would buy it if it were commercially available and b) some of that stuff is never going to see the light of day which is sad because there's some brilliant stuff there. On some level Stevie has to know the we are listening to this stuff because we love her music so much and not to mention the fact that she has pretty much ceased to produce anything new.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by chriskisn

Believe me I've had the lecture from Ginny Kamano on this issue (remember her?).

You might want to (re)consider the source.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Apples and oranges. And no one can really prove they were illegally obtained. That's a legal question. Also, it's well known that Ms. Nicks gave copies of her working versions (on cassette of course) to her friends and family who then in turn made copies for their friends, etc. The master reels were bought from an auction of a storage unit once owned by the now defunct Modern Records. I'm not an attorney so I can't even begin to sort out what is legal with that and what is not. All I know is that those recordings gave many of us tremendous enjoyment and a great insight into Stevie's artistic process. I don't think there's a Stevie fan on here who wouldn't buy those were they to be commercially released.
Yes there was the incident where the demos were stolen from her and she was justifiably angry.
I'm not about to post and mp3 of something that the band has worked on and released commercially, especially when you can download it for 99 cents. That's taking money out of their pocket and it's not fair. Everyone deserves to be paid for their work. As I stated above, the unreleased stuff, alternate takes and live shows aren't a problem to me because a) I would buy it if it were commercially available and b) some of that stuff is never going to see the light of day which is sad because there's some brilliant stuff there. On some level Stevie has to know the we are listening to this stuff because we love her music so much and not to mention the fact that she has pretty much ceased to produce anything new.

I agree with everything you said.

In addition, I would add that every penny that goes toward Say You Will will create further incentive for future NEW material.

[Lindsey Jr.]

Originally Posted by Doctor

Hey, I don't buy music usually.. but I did buy $150 tickets to their concert :P.

Okay.



I guess.

[Skyveris]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

I agree with everything you said.

In addition, I would add that every penny that goes toward Say You Will will create further incentive for future NEW material.

I concur. I heartily hope that this tour is a mammoth success for the same reason, as it'll incentivize the band to start recording new material and naturally we'd all rejoice in those efforts.

-Matt

[ILoveFM]

Originally Posted by Lindsey Jr.

You don't love FM!

I have every Fleetwood Mac album, with the exception of SYW, that were all bought with mine or my dad's money. I spend 322$ on 2 concert tickets, and because I ask for 1 song because I wanna listen to it, that makes me not a fan? You've got to be joking!

[chriskisn]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

You might want to (re)consider the source.

Well she was still working for Stevie when she made the point that distributing demos was wrong as some of them had been stolen from Stevie, if Stevie had wanted us to hear them she would have released them, etc.

I guess it is like stealing your private photos and then distributing them around the net, or perhaps that naughty video you made with an ex...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Apples and oranges. And no one can really prove they were illegally obtained. That's a legal question. Also, it's well known that Ms. Nicks gave copies of her working versions (on cassette of course) to her friends and family who then in turn made copies for their friends, etc. The master reels were bought from an auction of a storage unit once owned by the now defunct Modern Records. I'm not an attorney so I can't even begin to sort out what is legal with that and what is not. All I know is that those recordings gave many of us tremendous enjoyment and a great insight into Stevie's artistic process. I don't think there's a Stevie fan on here who wouldn't buy those were they to be commercially released.
Yes there was the incident where the demos were stolen from her and she was justifiably angry . . . .

I know. The whole master reels sale to some buyer raises the question of whether the buyer had the right to release the stuff for free or even sell it. Certainly they had the right to give it out for free though industry people might know something I do not.

And, if La Nicks gave her working demos out to a bunch of people with no contract barring those people from giving it away for free, seemingly there is nothing illegal about those people giving the stuff away for free, though industry insiders may know something different.

So, while La Nicks is justifiably pissed about the stolen demo tapes, the vast majority of the other stuff seems like it was leaked without such subterfuge.

In the end, IMO, she ought to be thankful for these leaks because IMO (which is mostly factually supported) - as with the concert boots, these demos cause people to be interested enough to buy her commercially released stuff.