Nobody does it better....

[DigYourGrave]

Originally Posted by Ench

Nobody arranges and produces SN's songs anywhere near as well as LB. At least, that's the way it seems to me.

Agree or disagree?

I pretty much had a big reply to this all written out, and it resembled everthing thats already been said, so I will say this;

Lets just wait and see in a few months, shall we... I have a feeling Stevie's songs will have no problem being great without the help of Lindsey, no problem at all.

[Gailh]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

As for her SYW songs... I suspect that without Christine there to help massage egos and provide diplomatic assistance, Stevie's ego must have been out of control, which probably resulted in Lindsey being reluctant to tell her when things were not so good. Her self-comparison to Bob Dylan was quite telling...

I think that musically Christine was the only one who could stand up to Lindsey because he does respect her abilities as a musician. I always think Lindsey pushes Christine slightly farther than she wants to go (a good thing) and she reins in the worst of his excesses (another good thing)

Having another view on a song would undoubtedly have helped and perhaps Stevie wouldn't have said that her demos were better than the songs that appeared on the album

Gail

[wolfontherun]

Agree 100%. My wish has always been that he produce an entire album for her.

[wolfontherun]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I actually think "Juliet"/"Book of Miracles" would have been interesting if they just kept working at it; the demo is rockin'! And it would have been interesting to see how Lindsey would have approached "Battle of the Dragon" (one of her best songs ever, IMHO), which was released just before TITN. And I do love what he did with "Joan of Arc," even though it is definitely one of their more bizarre collaborations. It's just a shame that Stevie's two weakest songs from that era ended up on the album!

As for her SYW songs... I suspect that without Christine there to help massage egos and provide diplomatic assistance, Stevie's ego must have been out of control, which probably resulted in Lindsey being reluctant to tell her when things were not so good. Her self-comparison to Bob Dylan was quite telling...

BUT I don't think she was comparing herself to Dylan in terms of the quality of their writting skills. She was trying to make the point that he has a very unique style all his own just like she does.

[GoS]

I think she just stinks either way.



I would agree. Tusk= her best stuff ever.

And for those of you complaining about what he did to her SYW songs, I have this to say: listen to his stuff on that album (if you can). He butchered almost all of his songs on that album and returned the favor to Stevie as well.

[kennation]

Disagree- Trouble in Shangri-la was her best work since after Tusk. Sorry, but Stevie's best work was BellaDonna, and TISL. Neither of which had anything to do with Lindsey.

[Peestie]

I don't get the hate for Smile At You or Thrown Down. The first time I heard SAY I loved it and I still do. I think it's a great song and a great production. The demo is good as well but I don't like it as much as SYW version. I love Lindsey's SYW production and the real edge that it has. It's a bit more suited to his solo style than the classic 70's FM vibe but I don't think it doesn't work on Stevie's stuff. Personally, I think he did a great job and the only main production flaw (and I guess it's a pretty major one) is that he didn't lock Stevie in the vocal booth until she didn't sound like she was bored to be there.

[Phil]

Lindsey's last genuinely interesting contribution to Stevie's songs was during the Tusk era, ending with Fireflies. I like her tracks on Mirage but this has more to do with her songwriting and vocal ability than his rather prosaic production of them.
Whilst I'm willing to concede fault on both sides regarding the uneven Tango material, a perfect example of his unsuitability as a future producer for her was the lame-arsed realisation of Twisted. He fair sapped the life out of it, save for a strong vocal from Stevie.
I won't comment at length on the Say You Will sessions as I have many times in the past suffice to say that they no longer seem to be complimenting one another. I think his intentions were honorable but his work on her material was for the most part only satisfactory, never inspiring. He didn't seem to understand the original vision of her songs (Smile At You, Running Through The Garden, Goodbye Baby), too often favouring an overly masculine, insensitive approach to proceedings. As for Stevie, well her vocals were inconsistent to put it mildly, ranging from deeply passionate (Smile, Running, Goodbye) to just plain bored (Say You Will, Destiny Rules). It's difficult to gauge whether she was disinterested or if Lindsey was too intimidated or wary to push her further. His cut and paste theory doesn't always bear fruit - compiling the best bits of uniformly flat, monotone takes ain't gonna magically transform the situation. I guess it's hard to say whose fault it was but I suppose it's fair to lay the blame at both their feet.
As for future collaborations, well the two of them may still be able to cut it in the studio and I believe Lindsey's idea of "writing from the ground up" could be their best bet.
For my money, I wish for Stevie to hook up with Rupert Hine once more. I am one of the few people on the planet that adored The Other Side Of The Mirror but taking that album out of the equation, bear witness to his comparatively understated, subtle production on Suzanne Vega's Songs In Red & Gray album - truly a thing of beauty. Now this is what Stevie needs at this stage of her career. I'm sure you'll all agree...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Peestie

I don't get the hate for Smile At You or Thrown Down.

I think Thrown Down is exceptional. I also enjoy Smile At You as much as the demos. I think Silver Girl was produced well, but was unsalvageable. I don't like the song and for it to run back to back with RTTG is quite unfortunate. I don't think much of RTTG's production. I think it could have sounded much better -- and shorter.

I think EFO stands out. In fact, along with Thrown Down and Miranda, those are my 2 favorite songs on the album and EFO is a departure for them.

I think SYW, Illume, and Destiny Rules all came out well. Although I don't have the love for DR that many do. Actually, I didn't really like DR in concert until the end. They tried to mix the closing vocals up a bit and that sounded better than the rest of the song did to me. I think I would have liked to hear that arrangement on the studio version. Indeed, what they experimented with on stage made me want to hear the studio version with Christine's vocals, because the stage version, really tried to take advantage of the additional singers at the end. It was just at the end where it sounded like Stevie might take off and start adlibbing that the song ended.

I actually think she should try DR solo, if that makes her feel freer to put an inspired ending on it like she does with GDW and HSML.

Michele

[David]

Originally Posted by Phil

For my money, I wish for Stevie to hook up with Rupert Hine once more.

It may well have to be your money--because I don't think anyone else would pay for it.

[GypsyVisions]

I think Lindsey and Stevie have always added a lot of magic to each of their songs..

I listen all the way back to Buckingham Nicks.. The perfection of "Long Distance Winner" .. "Frozen Love" .. and "Don't Let Me Down Again" ..

Then of course.. Rhiannon and Landslide have a special Lindsey Buckingham sound in the guitar that no one else can capture exactly..

Stevie's voice has always added a lot, to me, to Go Your Own Way ..and Lindsey gives Dreams a vibe that I can't really describe..but it makes it incredible.

Listen to the Sisters Of The Moon piano demo and then to the album version .. again incredible.. Ah, let's not forget Sara - I especially love the sound of Lindsey's playing on the live version from the Fleetwood Mac Live album.

Gypsy, Straight Back... I can just always recognize Lindsey's sound on Stevie's songs.. I love Stevie's solo stuff just as much.. and I love Lindsey's solo stuff just as much as well.. but the best music seems to come from Fleetwood Mac as a whole.

Say You Will was an awesome album to me.. The classic Lindsey-Stevie sound was so apparent, and Mick and John were right up there with them.

Thrown Down takes me right back to Gypsy with a somewhat lonely guitar..and gorgeous vocals. Say Goodbye is gorgeous too.

I could go on and on. I don't love everything they do, of course, but I've always love Say You Will.. The only songs I feel like could be dropped from it are "Miranda" and "Bleed To Love Her" .. but I still really like those songs.. I would have liked it if "Not Make Believe" was on there.. and also a Fleetwood Mac version of "Down On Rodeo" .. "Flying Down Juniper" .. or a full mac version of "Wait For You" ..

I definitely think Lindsey and Stevie and the rest of the mac are still cohesive and creative right now.

[wolfontherun]

Originally Posted by David

It may well have to be your money--because I don't think anyone else would pay for it.

I would. I love Mirror. Very consistant tracks from start to finish. this work sounds like a grown up Stevie.

[David]

Originally Posted by wolfontherun

I would. I love Mirror. Very consistant tracks from start to finish. this work sounds like a grown up Stevie.

Ew. I hate it. I don't pay attention to songwriting anyway (because when I do pay attention, all I see is garbage like "There is no fire burning/It's just a soul crying")--I just listen to the abstract sounds. A pop song has to sound groovy & cool & hooky. It has to be a sparkly little jewel. It has to sound wispy & savvy & ripply & sneedy.

[GypsyVisions]

You don't pay attention to the song writing? I don't want to sound like a jerk but that seems to kind of... take a lot of weight out of your opinion. And then with all the.. "It has to be.." "It has to be.." Um.. Alright.

"Mirror" is not one of my favorite albums by any means.. Although I do think it has some great songs..and I happen to think it has a lot of enticing lyrics.

"There is no fire burning/just a soul cryin" (or however it is, exactly..) has always been a nice lyric to me..speaking from the point of view of someone who DOES pay attention to songwriting (the lyrical side, I mean..)

[vermicious knid]

Yeah, the lyrics sounds nice, in an abstract way. But does it have any sensible meaning?