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[marinnette]

thrown down..like a barricade...you listen to this 5 words and you can get the whole picture (of stevie and lindsey of course). another bit of THE LADY genious.

[David]

Originally Posted by marinnette

thrown down..like a barricade...you listen to this 5 words and you can get the whole picture (of stevie and lindsey of course). another bit of THE LADY genious.

I don't get it. What does "thrown down/like a barricade" mean? A barricade is the thing that isn't supposed to be thrown down. If it's thrown down, a law is being broken, more than likely. We should support our law enforcement officials by respecting the barricades they erect around crime scenes, construction sites, or crowd-control hot points.

[THINKABOUTIT]

the way i always took that is...and pardon my detail...I'm a Literature teacher (LOL)

A barricade is a stronger term for a wall...it's a permanent division between two people, in this sense.

So, I always figured that if someone was "thrown down like a barricade", they were quickly tossed aside, made to stay away, in one place., so as to keep a distance.

Most of us always thought it was Stevie who was thrown down by Lindsey during the Dance tour, when there was a "supposed" rekindling between them, and then his girlfriend, now wife, got pregnant.

Anyway, there's my two cents...I love interpreting her words; always have. Makes complete sense to me Anymore you got for me David?

[michelej1]

And when the wall between two people is thrown down, that can be a good thing. A reopening of the lines of communication, letting down one's defenses, melting barriers.

On the other hand, "thrown down" can also be a very passionate term, bringing a scene of raging lust and torrid grasping to mind.

Michele

[marinnette]

Originally Posted by michelej1

And when the wall between two people is thrown down, that can be a good thing. A reopening of the lines of communication, letting down one's defenses, melting barriers.

On the other hand, "thrown down" can also be a very passionate term, bringing a scene of raging lust and torrid grasping to mind.

Michele

that's the picture I get, and I'm sure Stevie knew the image it created and how it could be interpretated. She wouldn't let people think something she didn't mean at all, although her songs can be taken in very different ways, I don't believe she would let listener's minds go so far if it wasn't real (sex reference) or didn't want to say it. It's only my opinion, but anyway, this is off-topic.

[David]

Originally Posted by THINKABOUTIT

the way i always took that is...and pardon my detail...I'm a Literature teacher (LOL)

Good morning!

A barricade is a stronger term for a wall...it's a permanent division between two people, in this sense.

But when I think of a barricade, I think of the wooden thingies that law enforcement officials use to reroute traffic or block off parts of indoor & outdoor parking lots. Temporary blocking devices.

So, I always figured that if someone was "thrown down like a barricade", they were quickly tossed aside, made to stay away, in one place., so as to keep a distance.

I don't understand. The barricades I'm thinking of aren't thrown down or up or any which way. They're picked up & loaded into the back of the truck or the squad car trunk. If somebody is going around throwing those things, an innocent bystander can get hurt. To me, the person throwing a barricade poses a credible threat of force or violence, & should be taken into custody & probably tried for attempted assault or battery -- or at least vandalism. The other thing I don't understand about your explanation is that it seems to me to be an example of hypallage: the transfer of attributes from proper subjects to others (as in Virgil's "the trumpet's Tuscan blare" for "the Tuscan trumpet's blare"). Am I misreading you? You say that someone was "thrown down like a barricade" & that this means that this person was "made to stay away." But wouldn't you put a barricade UP to make someone stay away? That's the purpose of a barricade, yes? Is it likely that Stevie meant "put UP a barricade"? "Thrown down" is ambiguous. Does it mean "thrown out" or "put up" (just like the expression "lay down the law" which means to reinforce with strength the law).

Most of us always thought it was Stevie who was thrown down by Lindsey during the Dance tour, when there was a "supposed" rekindling between them, and then his girlfriend, now wife, got pregnant.

I don't understand. You mean that "thrown down" means both that she went to bed with Lindsey & that she was later tossed aside (or thrown out)? But then why would she refer to herself as a barricade? A barricade to what? Her own happiness? Kristen's happiness? Lindsey's desires?

Anyway, there's my two cents...I love interpreting her words; always have. Makes complete sense to me Anymore you got for me David?

How about the opening lines of my favorite song THE NIGHTMARE:

Thrown down through the arms of sleep
She feel through the ivory morning
Deep into the waters of the one she called love
She paled in the wake of what some call a dream
ut you cannot know a dream
Till you've known the nightmare

Aaahhhh. . . . I love that.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

Good morning!

But when I think of a barricade, I think of the wooden thingies that law enforcement officials use to reroute traffic or block off parts of indoor & outdoor parking lots. Temporary blocking devices.

That's just your romantic streak coming through. It tinges your perception of everything. Michele

[THINKABOUTIT]

Ok...sorry, yet I don't understand how this is confusing

If Stevie herself, was the one 'thrown down', she was tossed aside, get it? Used and then meant to keep everything else out/forgotten. (much like, your police reference David)

A barricade carries with it more definitions than that of something used by police.

No....I don't believe she went to bed with Lindsey during the Dance.....there was a supposed rekindling though...that does not exude actual sex.

and yes...a barricade is an ambiguous term...it means either thrown down or put up.

As for your nightmare lyrics....

--Thrown down through the arms of sleep
She feel through the ivory morning
Deep into the waters of the one she called love
She paled in the wake of what some call a dream
but you cannot know a dream
Till you've known the nightmare--

*an ivory morning would suggest a new day...fresh start...lots of possibility; hence, the 2nd line about love.
*to "pale" into something means that you wallow on it...wade around...wading, suggesting trepidation.

[David]

Originally Posted by THINKABOUTIT

Ok...sorry, yet I don't understand how this is confusing

I'm dense. Whaddya want?

--Thrown down through the arms of sleep
She fell through the ivory morning
Deep into the waters of the one she called love
She paled in the wake of what some call a dream
but you cannot know a dream
Till you've known the nightmare--

*an ivory morning would suggest a new day...fresh start...lots of possibility; hence, the 2nd line about love.

But why specifically "ivory"? Ivory is a muted white, a satiny finish. It's a beautiful color, but what does it mean here? The slight blur, the haze, of ivory satin or a pearl-like surface? The ivory of the piano keys? The ivory of Fleetwood Mac's TUSK? Moreover, falling through the morning connotes danger -- what does she fall into? Presumably, the deep waters of love -- in other words, the swirling maelstrom of passion. Danger, again -- the danger of passion, of attraction. There's a lot going on in these two lines alone -- more than just a pretty new day. My reading is of a vortex of uncontrollable lust, the vortex that sucks you into it, that can obliterate you.

*to "pale" into something means that you wallow on it...wade around...wading, suggesting trepidation.

That's what pale (verb) means?! To wallow? I've never heard pale used to mean wallow. Can you give me an example in another source that uses pale to mean wallow? To pale means to turn pale, to blanch (or by extension, to decrease in importance). This person has turned pale in the "wake" of a bad dream (great connotations for wake: boat wake -- emphasizing the water imagery of the earlier line -- & the laying out of the dead for religious reasons). There's also the "wake" of "to awaken" from -- a nightmare! These lines are actually quite chilling. We could go phrase by phrase throughout the entire song & find all sorts of insights. That's in addition to all the beautiful word-painting, the imagery.

This really is one of Stevie's best songs of all time. Throughout this great work, death hangs like a pall of black crepe over a casket.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

I'm dense. Whaddya want?

And mischievous.

Originally Posted by David

I'm dense. Whaddya want?
But why specifically "ivory"? Ivory is a muted white, a satiny finish. It's a beautiful color, but what does it mean here? The slight blur, the haze, of ivory satin or a pearl-like surface? The ivory of the piano keys? The ivory of Fleetwood Mac's TUSK? Moreover, falling through the morning connotes danger -- what does she fall into? Presumably, the deep waters of love -- in other words, the swirling maelstrom of passion. Danger, again -- the danger of passion, of attraction. There's a lot going on in these two lines alone -- more than just a pretty new day. My reading is of a vortex of uncontrollable lust, the vortex that sucks you into it, that can obliterate you..

Maybe I've been brainwashed by Proctor and Gamble, but I take this use of ivory to mean innocence, purity. She fell from innocence, youth, and virtue into a dark, troubling love. Dangerous, but then you can't appreciate the joy and light, until you've known the dark and nightmarish part of it.

Michele

[David]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Maybe I've been brainwashed by Proctor and Gamble, but I take this use of ivory to mean innocence, purity. She fell from innocence, youth, and virtue into a dark, troubling love. Dangerous, but then you can't appreciate the joy and light, until you've known the dark and nightmarish part of it.

These are great points, Michele.

I didn't really lay my interpretive cards on the table before. I sort of hinted at my real view, but I'll just go ahead & say it. Stevie's "nightmare" is a literal nightmare, & her reaching out for the firm handlehold of love is a result, not a cause, of it. This song, in my mind, is a confrontation with terror of the most profound sort: Stevie is describing her nightmare -- a nightmare of her own death.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

I didn't really lay my interpretive cards on the table before. I sort of hinted at my real view, but I'll just go ahead & say it. Stevie's "nightmare" is a literal nightmare, & her reaching out for the firm handlehold of love is a result, not a cause, of it. This song, in my mind, is a confrontation with terror of the most profound sort: Stevie is describing her nightmare -- a nightmare of her own death.

I see, but why is she falling deep into the waters of the one she called love. Does she begin with a pleasant enough dream and then it becomes the nightmare? Because thinking of what you've said, I don't see how she is trying to reach out to love, to rescue her from fear and sleep. Instead, the love comes first and then it turns dark.

So, did she lay down to enjoy pleasant dreams of love, only to have them turn frightening? And if so, has she seen that love or her lover will be the cause of her death?

Michele

[Zombie]

I do not think I recall "pale" being used to mean "wallow" ever in my life...but in Stevie's lyric there, it's always seemed to evoke the word "faded" to me.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by skuncles

So my question for everyone is how old are you and when did you really get into Stevie's music. I don't mean when did you first hear of her, but when did you become a dedicated fan.

I'm 38 and I became a dedicated fan years ago (No specific date since I can remember hearing my older brother playing her music back in the late 70's/early 80's)

[wolfontherun]

Originally Posted by GrahnNicks

I've been on this board for 24 hours!

I'm 39 and from Sweden (so please, remember English is not my first language!)

Hardcore Steviefans are rare in Sweden, but I met 2 1984 on a private party.
The 2 girls walked in, wearing platforms etc etc, turned off the music that was on at the moment and simply changed record...to The Wild Heart..
Stand Back was the very first I heard of SN, at that point I didn't know who she was at all, and it was...well, I was stunned...
A couple of years went on and what did I one day att work hear from the radio? I can't wait and that strange voice AGAIN!?

My sister then told me it was SN and I ran to the nearest record store for more!

In 1988 I heard Dreams on the radio at work and since that day I' m a hardcorefan.

As I told you in the first place, I'm from Sweden and FM and SN is not a very big issue here..so I guess I'll have to thank those 2 girls in platforms back in 1984.

Anna

Cool story and your English is fine.