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#226
10-07-2008, 10:36 PM
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Well, the flash polls are in from CNN
Obama readily wins the major ones, including, quite suprisingly, the ability to lead, by like 20 points  This means Obama is getting the D's, the I's, and the R's to get those numbers. McCain needed to hit this one out of the ball park. He did not do that. Interstingly, I was outside a minute ago, and these 20 somethings were all joking about how McCain looked like their grandfather which they clearly associated with being out of touch. I must admit, the contrast of Obama's fresh face juxtapositioned with McCain's face reminded be of the Bush I - Clinton debates in the early 90's. I mean 28% to like 67% likeable to Obama's favor. McCain must do something drastic or he will lose and bad. On edit - here is the fact check site http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ry/fact-check/ most damning is to McCain: Fact Check: Did McCain intervene on behalf of Charles Keating? Posted: 06:01 PM ET Monday the Obama campaigned rolled out a Web site and online documentary about Sen. McCain and Charles Keating. The Statement: The campaign for Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama on Monday, Oct. 6, unveiled a Web site noting that Republican opponent Sen. John McCain played a key role in the Senate's "Keating Five" scandal of the 1980s. "McCain intervened on behalf of Charles Keating with federal regulators tasked with preventing banking fraud, and championed legislation to delay regulation of the savings and loan industry — actions that allowed Keating to continue his fraud at an incredible cost to taxpayers," the site says. Get the facts! The Facts: Keating was sentenced to prison and required to pay more than $1 billion in civil penalties after being convicted on fraud, racketeering and conspiracy charges centered around his running of Lincoln Savings and Loan, which he bought in 1984. On April 14, 1989, Lincoln was seized by the government at an eventual taxpayer cost of $3.4 billion, then the most expensive thrift bailout in history. Lincoln and Keating became national symbols of the savings-and-loans collapse of the '80s — much as lending firms Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have symbolized the current financial meltdown. McCain had been friends with Keating since the early '80s — their families vacationed together several times, according to previous CNN reporting. Keating was an early financial supporter of McCain's political career and donated to his campaigns repeatedly over the years. Keating's first company, American Continental, was headquartered in Arizona, the state McCain represents. McCain became one of the so-called "Keating Five" — five U.S. senators investigated over accusations they tried to interfere in a federal investigation of Keating's role in the savings-and-loan's collapse. In January 1985, while in the U.S. House, McCain co-sponsored a resolution that would have delayed the effective date of proposed government limits "on direct investment in real estate, service corporations, and equity securities by federally insured savings and loan associations." He was one of the early sponsors, although a majority of Congress eventually signed on to sponsor it. The legislation would have impacted Keating's business, but would have regulated the entire industry, not specifically Lincoln Savings and Loan. McCain also wrote several letters to government regulators and other officials regarding the issue. One, dated Jan. 30, 1985, to White House chief of staff James Baker, called the proposed regulations "unwise," saying the effort "flys (sic) in the face of our recent efforts to remove the hand of government from the affairs of private enterprise." On April 9, 1987, McCain and the other senators attended a meeting with federal regulators investigating Keating. McCain has since said he regrets doing so. "He asked me to help him," he said during an October 2002 interview with Chicago's WGN-AM radio station. "I said I wouldn't do certain things. He called me a wimp. I threw him out of my office, but I still went to a meeting with four other senators with a group of regulators." McCain testified that he never asked for anything inappropriate during the meeting, and the Senate ethics committee found that, after regulators said the firm was being investigated not just for insolvency, but on criminal grounds, McCain took no further action on Keating's behalf. In the end, the committee recommended McCain and Sen. John Glenn be dropped from the probe — although McCain was rebuked by the Senate for using "poor judgment" in his relationship with the millionaire banker. The Verdict: True. McCain did push to delay regulations that would have cracked down on savings-and-loans practices and intervened on Keating's behalf, although he was cleared of wrongdoing in the "Keating Five" case.
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 save the cheerleader - save the world Last edited by strandinthewind; 10-07-2008 at 10:39 PM.. 
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#227
10-07-2008, 10:43 PM
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#228
10-07-2008, 10:59 PM
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Fact check: Obama, McCain twist records
By JIM KUHNHENN and CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writers Republican John McCain expressed incredulity in the presidential debate Tuesday that Democrat Barack Obama would tip off the enemy by saying publicly that he'd attack al-Qaida in Pakistan under certain conditions. "Remarkable," McCain said during the presidential debate, meaning remarkably irresponsible. Lost in his withering criticism: McCain took the same position as Obama, a year ago, when he said, "Sure. We have to," when asked if he'd go after Osama bin Laden in Pakistan. Both candidates stretched facts, sometimes past the breaking point, as they addressed the financial crisis and misrepresented each other's position on health care during their second presidential debate. One of the night's sharpest exchanges was over what should be done if the U.S. knew the whereabouts of bin Laden and his terrorists in sovereign Pakistan, and Pakistani officials were unable or unwilling to strike. Obama repeated that he'd attack across the border in that instance. "Sen. Obama likes to talk loudly,' McCain said in response. "In fact, he said he wants to announce that he's going to attack Pakistan. Remarkable." McCain went on: "I'm not going to telegraph my punches, which is what Sen. Obama did. And I'm going to act responsibly, as I have acted responsibly throughout my military career and throughout my career in the United States Senate." In an October 2007 interview with Military Times, however, McCain's position was indistinguishable from Obama's. Asked if "you'd go get him" if U.S. forces had a fix on bin Laden in Pakistan, McCain said: "Sure. Sure. We have to, and I'm sure that after the initial flurry, that whoever our friends are, wherever he is, would be relieved because, as I mentioned to you before, he's still very effective in the world, very, very effective." McCain broadened that threat to say he'd target the Taliban operating in Pakistan, too: "I think that if we knew of al-Qaida — more specifically Taliban, it's mainly Taliban that are operating in these places — that we have to do what's necessary. We don't have to advertise it. We don't have to embarrass or humiliate the Pakistani government." Also in the debate: OBAMA: Said McCain's proposal to give people a tax credit in exchange for treating employers' health insurance contributions as taxable wages amounts to "what one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away." THE FACTS: Obama's suggestion that McCain's health care plan is a wash for families is misleading. McCain offers families a $5,000 tax credit to help them buy health insurance. The corresponding increase in taxable wages would result in a much smaller cost than the value of the tax credit, at least at first. Over time, the value of the tax credit may diminish as premiums rise. However, the Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan would increase the federal deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years — mainly because it would lead to less tax revenue coming in, meaning it is a true tax break overall. ___ McCAIN: Said he would provide a $5,000 refundable tax credit for families to buy health insurance "rather than mandates or fines for small businesses as Sen. Obama's plan calls for." THE FACTS: Obama's health care plan does not impose mandates or fines on small business. He would provide small businesses with a refundable tax credit of up to 50 percent on health premiums paid on behalf of their employees. Also, large employers that do not offer meaningful coverage or contribute to the cost of coverage would be required to pay a percentage of payroll toward the costs of a public insurance plan. But small businesses would be exempt from that requirement. ___ OBAMA: "Actually I'm cutting more than I'm spending so that it will be a net spending cut." THE FACTS: Obama has many ambitious plans to spend more taxpayer dollars on a variety of federal programs, including clean energy technologies and job training. He's said he'll cut pork-barrel programs and the costs of the war in Iraq to pay for it — as well as raise taxes on the wealthy — but the specifics of his new spending plans greatly outweigh the few spending cuts he's identified. ___ McCAIN: Said one way out of the financial crisis is to "stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don't like us." THE FACTS: Although he didn't spell it out, he was referring — as he has in the past — to purchases of oil from countries hostile to the U.S. The figure is inflated and misleading. The U.S. is not spending nearly that much on oil imports and roughly one-third of what it does spend goes to friendly countries such as Canada, Mexico and Britain. ___ OBAMA: Blamed some of the problem of terrorism in the Afghanistan-Pakistan region on Bush administration policy in Pakistan, saying "We can't coddle, as we did, a dictator, give him billions of dollars and then he's making peace treaties with the Taliban and militants." THE FACTS: Obama oversimplifies ex-President Pervez Musharraf's approach to making peace deals. In fact, the U.S.-backed Musharraf focused more heavily on military action, launching blistering attacks on the militants at times and negotiating peace deals with them at others. Obama also ignores the fact that Pakistan's newly elected civilian government, also U.S.-supported, is seeking the same kind of peace deals and has stepped back from heavy-handed tactics that were pursued by the Musharraf government. ___ McCAIN: Said Obama had voted for tax increases "94 times." THE FACTS: This inflated count, heard before, includes repetitive votes as well as votes to cut taxes for the middle class while raising them on the rich. An analysis by factcheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year. ___ OBAMA: "I believe this is a final verdict on the failed economic policies of the last eight years, strongly promoted by President Bush and supported by Sen. McCain, that essentially said that we should strip away regulations, consumer protections, let the market run wild, and prosperity would rain down on all of us." THE FACTS: McCain has indeed favored less regulation over the years but supported tighter rules and accountability on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years before the start of a financial crisis prompted in part by those giant mortgage underwriters. Obama was not a leader in that unsuccessful effort. Some of the current problems can be traced to legislation passed in 1999 that lifted many regulations over the financial industry. That deregulation was championed by then-Sen. Phil Gramm, R-Texas, a McCain supporter, but also by President Clinton, who signed the legislation, and by former Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, now a top Obama economic adviser. ___ MCAIN: "Oil drilling offshore now is vital so we can bridge the gap between imported oil ... and it will reduce the price of a barrel of oil. ... We've got to drill offshore and do it now." THE FACTS: The government estimates that opening the Atlantic and Pacific coasts and eastern Gulf of Mexico to drilling "will not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030." Even then, it would only increase domestic oil production by 3 percent. ___ Associated Press writers Tom Raum, Andrew Taylor, Kevin Freking, Anne Gearan, H. Josef Hebert and Christopher Wills contributed to this report. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081008/...ate_fact_check
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save the cheerleader - save the world
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#229
10-08-2008, 03:27 AM
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Children of the world the forgotten chimpanzee..in the eyes of the world you have done so much for me. ..SLN.
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#230
10-08-2008, 10:30 AM
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Thought this was funny....
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#231
10-08-2008, 11:11 AM
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Some of the pre-debate polls are coming out, which the RCP average for Obama is up 4.7. Several polls are within the margin of error again. So, the race started to tighten up again before the debate, so we may see a complete tie again before the next debate. Quite strange!
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#232
10-08-2008, 11:32 AM
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On the electoral side, there is no way McCain can win if Obama wins either Ohio of Florida.....Obama is up handily in both. 
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New Song, "What Love Is"- Check it Out! 
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#233
10-08-2008, 12:06 PM
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Think that you are overstating the CNN thing there. I have had many debates and haven't heard that term before. In fact, we, both Republicans and Democrats, generally accept anything from CNN above Fixed Noise or MSNBC.
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#234
10-08-2008, 12:41 PM
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Since this has been made a sticky, I assume I should post this here.
On the subject of Obama and Ayers, CNN fact checker says: Fact Check: Is Obama 'palling around with terrorists'? Posted: 09:00 AM ET The Statement: Republican vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin said Saturday, October 4, that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is "someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country." Watch: Is Obama a terrorist's pal? Get the facts! The Facts: In making the charge at a fund-raising event in Englewood, Colorado, and a rally in Carson, California, Palin was referring at least in part to William Ayers, a 1960s radical. In both appearances, Palin cited a front-page article in Saturday's New York Times detailing the working relationship between Obama and Ayers. In the 1960s, Ayers was a founding member of the radical Weather Underground group that carried out a string of bombings of federal buildings, including the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol, in protest against the Vietnam War. The now-defunct group was labeled a "domestic terrorist group" by the FBI, and Ayers and his wife, Bernadine Dohrn — also a Weather Underground member — spent 10 years as fugitives in the 1970s. Federal charges against them were dropped due to FBI misconduct in gathering evidence against them, and they resurfaced in 1980. Both Ayers and Dohrn ultimately became university professors in Chicago, with Ayers, 63, now an education professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Obama's Chicago home is in the same neighborhood where Ayers and Dohrn live. Beginning in 1995, Ayers and Obama worked with the non-profit Chicago Annenberg Challenge on a huge school improvement project. The Annenberg Challenge was for cities to compete for $50 million grants to improve public education. Ayers fought to bring the grant to Chicago, and Obama was recruited onto the board. Also from 1999 through 2001 both were board members on the Woods Fund, a charitable foundation that gave money to various causes, including the Trinity United Church that Obama attended and Northwestern University Law Schools' Children and Family Justice Center, where Dohrn worked. CNN's review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the volunteer projects in which the two men were involved. Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt told CNN that after meeting Obama through the Annenberg project, Ayers hosted a campaign event for him that same year when then-Illinois state Sen. Alice Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced the young community organizer as her chosen successor. LaBolt also said the two have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Obama came to the U.S. Senate in 2005 and last met more than a year ago when they encountered each other on the street in their Hyde Park neighborhood. The extent of Obama's relationship with Ayers came up during the Democratic presidential primaries earlier this year, and Obama explained it by saying, "This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood … the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago — when I was 8 years old — somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense." The McCain campaign did not respond Saturday to a request for elaboration on Palin's use of the plural "terrorists." Verdict: False. There is no indication that Ayers and Obama are now "palling around," or that they have had an ongoing relationship in the past three years. Also, there is nothing to suggest that Ayers is now involved in terrorist activity or that other Obama associates are.
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#235
10-08-2008, 01:12 PM
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"Palling around" is definately an overstatement. However, Obama has not been honest about his associations. No one is alleging that Obama agreed with Ayers on anything. Ayers is totally unavoidable in Chicago politics, so I understand some association is inevitable. The problem I have is that he didn't try to minimize his contact, or clarify his association. The way he explains the relationship is as if they once drank in the same bar, whereas it was more than that. In the same situation with regards to his political coming out, I would have insisted that it not take place in Ayers home and I would have made some effort to distance myself from Ayers. It does not appear that Obama ever made the effort to distance himself from Ayers early on in his career. Given that Ayers attacked his own country, the appearance is that Obama sold his soul out to advance his career.
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#236
10-08-2008, 01:26 PM
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The Obama Ayers timeline:
1981-1983 William Ayers and Barack Obama meet at Columbia, introduced by Frank Marshall Davis 1987 William Ayers links up with Barack Obama in Chicago 1988 Ayers solicits Khalid Al-Mansour to raise money for Obama’s Harvard law School education 1989 Tom Ayers and William Ayers get Obama a summer job at Sidley & Austin (where he meets Michelle Obama); Ayers’ wife Bernadine Dohrn also worked at Sidley at about the same time as Barack and Michelle. 1993 Ayers places Obama on Woods Foundation 1995 Ayers makes Obama Chairman of Annenberg Challenge 1995 Ayers hosts a coffee klatch for Obama’s political debut (Obama falsely claims this is when he met Ayers) 2007-2008 The structure of Obama’s presidential campaign increasingly comes to resemble an Ayers-designed national “community organizer matrix” straight out of Maoist theory. This is not merely a presidential “campaign.” Obama’s organization is the first installment of an ongoing movement being paid for with tax-exempt contributions to his campaign, approaching half a billion dollars. 2008 Obama In response to ABC News, Obama tells a national TV audience he was “six years old” when Ayers bombed federal buildings, and they are only casual neighborhood acquaintances. A lie.
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#237
10-08-2008, 02:33 PM
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#238
10-08-2008, 02:56 PM
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When people provide numbered lists that are clearly talking points that they certainly didn't think of themselves, it would seem logical that they would identify the source of their canned response. Perhaps they know better, however and this would be the equivalent of asking Polly why she wants a cracker. Polly likely doesn't really know.
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#239
10-08-2008, 03:11 PM
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Michelle Obama spoke at my school today and she did a great job. I love the things I am hearing about the Obama campaign and I think I know which way ill be voting.
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#240
10-08-2008, 04:01 PM
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In the spring, we contacted the Clinton and Obama campaigns to see if they wanted to have anything to do with us. We were doing a big unit on energy and basically came up with energy plans for a city or the country, the competition was in full swing, and our (PA) primaries were very close, so we thought they might like to do something. The Clinton campaign paid no attention to us, but we had several contacts inside the Obama campaign and almost got something. He was planning his big trip in our area and we almost got him to add our school, but it ended up falling through. There was a positive, though, they gave us three tickets to the rally where Obama got endorsed by Bob Casey!
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