More Palin Lies

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Sorceress

Right. I think we're on the same page.

See, there's the rub. I am all for people having faith. I think most of the different churches have done great things in moving people to live better lives, administering to the sick and poor, and other good deeds. I say kudos to them for that. I am not really talking about those people when I am talking about some right wing nutcase like Palin apparently is. I mean I can see this chick actually thinking God wants her to push the button.

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

See, there's the rub. I am all for people having faith. I think most of the different churches have done great things in moving people to live better lives, administering to the sick and poor, and other good deeds. I say kudos to them for that. I am not really talking about those people when I am talking about some right wing nutcase like Palin apparently is. I mean I can see this chick actually thinking God wants her to push the button.

Her thinking God wants her to push the button is a very good example faith coming before reason. That's not something we need, regardless of our various religious beliefs or lack thereof.

I'm fine with religious folks as long as they don't bother me with it or bother those with a different flavor of religion with it. Do what you want, whatever floats your boat, etc, just keep it off my lawn, and I will kindly keep my lack of belief off yours. And then we're all happy and fine.

But the possibility of a wackadoo like Palin hearing a voice she thinks is God telling her to push the button scares the bejesus out of this here atheist, and should also scare the bejesus out of anyone else with half a brain, regardless of religious affiliation.

No matter how religious people are, and no matter how secure they feel in the veracity of their various faiths - do they really want to put someone in office that may hear voices telling her to do things that would cause catastrophic disaster for the entire planet?

Sure, hearing voices might be evidence of deities, but it's more likely that it's evidence of mental illness, or even more likely than that, evidence of someone capitalizing on the tendency of the population to accept that the "still small voice" is real, and using it to further destructive agendas.

If I say I hear a transmission from space vibrating through my fillings that tells me to knock over a gas station, you'd think I'm crazy and throw me in the nut hatch, and rightly so. But if I say Jesus talks to me and tells me he wants Alaska to have a pipeline, this is somehow less worrisome, and I don't think it should be.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by Zombie

But the possibility of a wackadoo like Palin hearing a voice she thinks is God telling her to push the button scares the bejesus out of this here atheist, and should also scare the bejesus out of anyone else with half a brain, regardless of religious affiliation.

No matter how religious people are, and no matter how secure they feel in the veracity of their various faiths - do they really want to put someone in office that may hear voices telling her to do things that would cause catastrophic disaster for the entire planet?

Sure, hearing voices might be evidence of deities, but it's more likely that it's evidence of mental illness, or even more likely than that, evidence of someone capitalizing on the tendency of the population to accept that the "still small voice" is real, and using it to further destructive agendas.

This is exactly why I keep wanting to pinch myself and say this woman cannot be real.John McCain whom I once admired could not have made this ominous choice. In the year 2008 in America she could not become President with the failure of the health of a 72 year old 4 time cancer survivor.I am just stunned that many more people are not as alarmed as we are.Particularly in light of all that has happened in the last decade in the name of religious fundamentalism.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

. . . Particularly in light of all that has happened in the last decade in the name of religious fundamentalism.

I think most Americans support the religious fundamentalism, at least to the degree that they think it will not affect them because they are Christians of some nature.

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think most Americans support the religious fundamentalism, at least to the degree that they think it will not affect them because they are Christians of some nature.

Unfortunately, I think this is true.

The American voting public is prone to voting based on kneejerk reactions to certain words like "abortion" and "separation of church and state," or childish things like who has better hair. Throw the word "Jesus" into the mix and everyone immediately shuts down and says, well, that's a good choice - if she likes Jesus, she must be a-okay, because I like Jesus and I am a-okay.

They're wrongto think that just because they are also Christian, they are "safe," though, because they aren't all going to be subscribing to the same version, and each denomination has a habit of thinking it's the right one and everyone else is wrong. They are just as bad off as those of us non-Christians may end up...and they may even be worse off because they won't have seen it coming like we do.

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

This is exactly why I keep wanting to pinch myself and say this woman cannot be real.John McCain whom I once admired could not have made this ominous choice. In the year 2008 in America she could not become President with the failure of the health of a 72 year old 4 time cancer survivor.I am just stunned that many more people are not as alarmed as we are.Particularly in light of all that has happened in the last decade in the name of religious fundamentalism.

I hear ya. I keep wanting to run out and grab McCain and shake him while saying, "Why you do dis to me, Dimmy? Why?"

He is not a stupid man - in fact, he is far from it. I am certain that the reason behind adding YoungEarthy McMooseKiller over there to the ticket was because he knows he's a bit lacking in the charisma department and that she would pique the interest of the Great Unwashed. Whatever else Palin is, you can't deny she gives good speech, and McCain is not overly skilled in that department, no matter how bright he is.

Of course, once you take the teleprompter away, she chokes, but that can be controlled to a certain extent. If she can keep it together long enough to not get annihilated in the debates AND McCain wins, she'll have served her purpose and I imagine he'll promptly shove her in a room somewhere with a few shiny toys to keep her occupied and leave her there.

That being said, I am not willing to chance it, so I cannot in good conscience vote for McCain now with Senora Psychopath on the ticket. Same thing in regards to his age or health - while he probably won't kark it in office, I just can't take the chance. And that makes me sad, yo.

I'm not stunned that more people aren't alarmed like we are, because I am a professional Surly Bitch, and while I find the depths of human stupidity to be fascinating, I am rarely surprised by it. We're real busy in Pakistan right now, but how many Americans know what's happening? Not many. We're all much more concerned about where Palin gets her hair done. Oh boy, oh boy.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by Zombie

They're wrongto think that just because they are also Christian, they are "safe," though, because they aren't all going to be subscribing to the same version, and each denomination has a habit of thinking it's the right one and everyone else is wrong. They are just as bad off as those of us non-Christians may end up...and they may even be worse off because they won't have seen it coming like we do.

I would say that in many cases, they are less safe. I am not saying anything about all Christians or all Christian politicians, but it has been my experience that a portion of politicians with religions that have very rigid views on how life should be lived mix their beliefs and their political stances.

Again, I am not saying this is always true or true for everyone, I am just making an observation. If some one puts their personal beliefs on top of what is best for the country, the fine line between religion and political positions might maybe sometimes be crossed. And we, as Americans, cannot let anyone, Republican or Democrat, pass a law that was motivated more by the church than by what will be best for America, that was what we were founded on.

I attend a Catholic church and am not trying to make a generalization or offend anyone, so please don't call me names on that account.

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by GoS

I would say that in many cases, they are less safe. I am not saying anything about all Christians or all Christian politicians, but it has been my experience that a portion of politicians with religions that have very rigid views on how life should be lived mix their beliefs and their political stances.

Again, I am not saying this is always true or true for everyone, I am just making an observation. If some one puts their personal beliefs on top of what is best for the country, the fine line between religion and political positions might maybe sometimes be crossed. And we, as Americans, cannot let anyone, Republican or Democrat, pass a law that was motivated more by the church than by what will be best for America, that was what we were founded on.

I attend a Catholic church and am not trying to make a generalization or offend anyone, so please don't call me names on that account.

I'm not going to call you names. We need more people like you that are willing and able to recognize the importance of putting the welfare of all of us as a nation before our individual religious beliefs and practices. So bravo to you, my friend. Bravo to you.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by Zombie

I'm not going to call you names. We need more people like you that are willing and able to recognize the importance of putting the welfare of all of us as a nation before our individual religious beliefs and practices. So bravo to you, my friend. Bravo to you.

Thank you. And we need people like Obama who understand that we can feel one way but realize what is best for the country (I think he said that abortion was morally wrong but the alternative would be very bad).

[Sorceress]

Originally Posted by GoS

And we, as Americans, cannot let anyone, Republican or Democrat, pass a law that was motivated more by the church than by what will be best for America, that was what we were founded on.

I attend a Catholic church and am not trying to make a generalization or offend anyone, so please don't call me names on that account.

No, I won't call you names either! You brought up an important reason why fundamentalists should not be in charge--They believe that the dictates of their religious beliefs ARE what's best for America.

[gypsysoul]

An American friend has put this opinion piece on my website. If you like it or agree with it (or dislike it and disagree) feel free to comment on that site or here and I'll pass it on.
I know she'd love to have feedback (what ever the opinion)

http://www.assetsworld.com/assetsblog/?p=647

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

This is exactly why I keep wanting to pinch myself and say this woman cannot be real.John McCain whom I once admired could not have made this ominous choice. In the year 2008 in America she could not become President with the failure of the health of a 72 year old 4 time cancer survivor.I am just stunned that many more people are not as alarmed as we are.Particularly in light of all that has happened in the last decade in the name of religious fundamentalism.

That could be that most American actually attend churches that aren't that much different from this and don't believe that reason has been replaced by faith. The two are not exclusory.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Sorceress

No, I won't call you names either! You brought up an important reason why fundamentalists should not be in charge--They believe that the dictates of their religious beliefs ARE what's best for America.

Can you find anyone who actually said this that actually holds a public high office? No, because no one has. It's a xenophobic remark by someone who is afraid of religious people. As far as you are concerned, there is no distiction between your local church and the Taliban. According to people who think like you, fundamentalists are waiting in the wings with suicide bombs to take out abortion clinics and are waiting for Jesus to return to do it. I see faith (on your part) replacing reason here.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Can you find anyone who actually said this that actually holds a public high office? No, because no one has. It's a xenophobic remark by someone who is afraid of religious people. As far as you are concerned, there is no distiction between your local church and the Taliban. According to people who think like you, fundamentalists are waiting in the wings with suicide bombs to take out abortion clinics and are waiting for Jesus to return to do it. I see faith (on your part) replacing reason here.

Actually, that is what we call "extremists." And why do many hard-core republicans oppose gay marriage, not because they feel that allowing it would destroy america, because the Church said so.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by GoS

Actually, that is what we call "extremists." And why do many hard-core republicans oppose gay marriage, not because they feel that allowing it would destroy america, because the Church said so.

That statement isn't true. Most of the evangelicals I know believe gay marriage would destroy America because they believe it would weaken the family, which causes crime, etc. I do agree that the view is misguided, as marriage is already weakened by other cultural forces much more powerful than gay marriage. Also, statistics don't bear the view out, as children of gay marriages are not more likely to commit crimes, however they do report lower levels of happiness and contentment. To me gay marriage is irrelavent because I don't think that the government has any business in relationships one way or the other. The evangelical argument is that government has a vested interest in the success of marriage because stable families are more likely to rear children that are law abiding citizens. I disagree with that point, but calling that view "extreme" IS extreme, IMO. Certainly there are SOME who hold the view you describe as much as there might be some on the left who hold views, like Nancy Pelosi has admitted, where they believe that redistribution was mandated by Jesus, which I think also misstates Jesus' actual teachings. The basic point is that evangelicals do want what they think is best for America. My view is that Jesus never commanded government to do anything, but commanded us to do things individually.

BTW thank you for having a respectful debate with me.