Heart ask Sarah Palin to stop using "Barracuda"

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

Re the last comment... Based on what? She seems a lot classier than the lefty bloggers and magazines that make up stories about her. I think she's handled anything tossed at her with a great deal of class and dignity.

Well some of the"'stories" are not made up .It is difficult to lie about actual video footage of her stating her wacky extreme religious veiws from the pulpit of a holy roller church..really almost everthing about her smacks of a Jerry Springer episode..like I said earlier she seems almost like an invented stereotype of a xenophobic,religiuosly preoccupied rightwingnut who can only see things in black and white ..is this really what this country needs now? I can't imagine it does.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Well some of the"'stories" are not made up .It is difficult to lie about actual video footage of her stating her wacky extreme religious veiws from the pulpit of a holy roller church..really almost everthing about her smacks of a Jerry Springer episode..like I said earlier she seems almost like an invented stereotype of a xenophobic,religiuosly preoccupied rightwingnut who can only see things in black and white ..is this really what this country needs now? I can't imagine it does.

I just can't go along and call someone a wacko based off of a series of basically positive statements. Bear in mind that you basically consider ALL religion extreme that asserts itself in any way and most of the population would look at the same video and shrug. I basically look at someone's religion and determine whether or not it basically has a positive message or not. If she was making statements about victimhood, terrorizing someone, or killing people, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. I think a lot of it is that you may not know the inner workings of various degrees of Calvinism, which is basically a theology that says that all things are willed by God. I don't agree with it, but I don't condemn something because I simply don't understand it.

[paleshadow]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

Roger Fisher is a jackass. I doubt that Heart needs the money or publicity at this stage of their career. I think Ann and Nancy don't want Barracuda being used by the McCain campaign.

Once again, no matter what their feelings are, or whether they need it or not, objecting to the song being used has created more publicity than not objecting to it would have. I Roger Fisher a jackass because he doesn't object to the song being used, or are their other reasons? I'm not familiar with the members of the band besides Ann and Nancy.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

I just can't go along and call someone a wacko based off of a series of basically positive statements. Bear in mind that you basically consider ALL religion extreme that asserts itself in any way and most of the population would look at the same video and shrug. I basically look at someone's religion and determine whether or not it basically has a positive message or not. If she was making statements about victimhood, terrorizing someone, or killing people, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. I think a lot of it is that you may not know the inner workings of various degrees of Calvinism, which is basically a theology that says that all things are willed by God. I don't agree with it, but I don't condemn something because I simply don't understand it.

I understand far more about Christianity than you imagine I do .My father is an ordained baptist minster..I however have been pretty much an atheist since I was 18 or so..IMO people can worship whatever or whoever they wish but when their belief systems intrude on the rights and civil liberties of others then I have a real problem.The Christian right is intent on proselytizing and trying to shove their agenda on to others.Palin has made to me very preposterous statements like the "war is God's will"(another crusade perhaps?) and God wants Alaska to have a pipeline .If God loves us so much then why did he put more of the world's oil reserves under the sand of those pesky Moslems?ahh i know because they not us are more beloved by Allah!This is just the kind of stupidity that is causing so many problems ,murder and mayhem in the world today ..I myself would prefer not ot have someone in the White House that would even utter such words ..simple as that.

[DestinyRules]

I think the reason Heart is so irked over Palin's use of "Barracuda" is the fact that it implies that Heart and its members endorse the McCain/Palin campaign for president.

Even if Palin had every right under ASCAP to use the song without Ann and Nancy Wilson's permission, to continue to do so and to suggest that Heart endorses her politics -- and McCain's -- is disingenuous at best.

Having said that, it does seem like grandstanding on Heart's part -- and on Jackson Browne's part when he sued McCain over the use of "Running On Empty." Why not simply issue a statement denying any endorsement of the candidate by the use of the song?

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by DestinyRules

I think the reason Heart is so irked over Palin's use of "Barracuda" is the fact that it implies that Heart and its members endorse the McCain/Palin campaign for president.

Even if Palin had every right under ASCAP to use the song without Ann and Nancy Wilson's permission, to continue to do so and to suggest that Heart endorses her politics -- and McCain's -- is disingenuous at best.

Having said that, it does seem like grandstanding on Heart's part -- and on Jackson Browne's part when he sued McCain over the use of "Running On Empty." Why not simply issue a statement denying any endorsement of the candidate by the use of the song?

They actually did have mechanical licenses and were paying royalties to the Wilson sisters and Jackson Browne.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

I understand far more about Christianity than you imagine I do .My father is an ordained baptist minster..I however have been pretty much an atheist since I was 18 or so..IMO people can worship whatever or whoever they wish but when their belief systems intrude on the rights and civil liberties of others then I have a real problem.The Christian right is intent on proselytizing and trying to shove their agenda on to others.Palin has made to me very preposterous statements like the "war is God's will"(another crusade perhaps?) and God wants Alaska to have a pipeline .If God loves us so much then why did he put more of the world's oil reserves under the sand of those pesky Moslems?ahh i know because they not us are more beloved by Allah!This is just the kind of stupidity that is causing so many problems ,murder and mayhem in the world today ..I myself would prefer not ot have someone in the White House that would even utter such words ..simple as that.

I have yet to see a Pentacostal strap their kids with explosive devices and go blow up a shopping mall. The worst you see is some nutburger shooting up an abortion clinic every few years. Even when that happens, there aren't churches shooting guns in the air and paying the families of the shooters, or making them saints. Those people get castigated and repudiated by the churches. When was the last time you saw Ahmadinijad condemn a suicide bomber? This kind of moral equivocation is the kind that lead to ignoring the warnings before 9/11 and that allowed every evil dictator in the world to come to power. Evil happens when good people refuse to recognize it and do nothing when they see it.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

I have yet to see a Pentacostal strap their kids with explosive devices and go blow up a shopping mall. The worst you see is some nutburger shooting up an abortion clinic every few years. Even when that happens, there aren't churches shooting guns in the air and paying the families of the shooters, or making them saints. Those people get castigated and repudiated by the churches. When was the last time you saw Ahmadinijad condemn a suicide bomber? This kind of moral equivocation is the kind that lead to ignoring the warnings before 9/11 and that allowed every evil dictator in the world to come to power. Evil happens when good people refuse to recognize it and do nothing when they see it.

If it had not been for fundamentalism and religious extremism we would still be looking at the WTC in the lower Manhattan skyline.It is as simple as that .It was not the political ideology of some SF bay area granola chomping ,tree hugging atheistic liberal of that I can assure you.The murdered birth control clinic workers you cited are just as much victims of fundamentalism as the people in the WTC on 9/11.I don't value their lives any less because they were murdered by Christians instead of Muslims .I like you was indoctrinated into Christianity from birth .I am also a natural born skeptic for better or worse so I rejected it wholesale before I was even an adult.It is difficult for people who were indoctrinated this way to even fathom how an atheist views the world .But consider this analogy in which I will replace God or Allah with other imaginary beings .Sarah Palin:"Santa Claus wants Alaska to have a pipeline"(sorry Rudolph I guess reindeer power isn't good enough anymore)Osama Bin Laden:"Tooth Fairy be praised ! She has struck down the twin towers of evil and American imperialism!"Sarah Palin "The Iraqi war is the Easter Bunny's will!"This is truly how I view at least the 3 Abrahamic Old Testament based guilt and fear based religions and in particular the literalist and fundamentalist who buy into them.Like I said people can worship whoever or whatever they wish but when those beliefs influence the policy that applies to all of us I have a real problem with it.

[GoldDustOrphan]

Heart RAWWKS!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

[TpaDavid]

Originally Posted by GoldDustOrphan

Heart RAWWKS!

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Yes they do ! Love A&N!

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Like I said people can worship whoever or whatever they wish but when those beliefs influence the policy that applies to all of us I have a real problem with it.

I'm with BombaySapphire here. I was raised Catholic, and rejected it wholesale at about 14, because it just didn't make any sense - no more nor less than any other theistic worldview I've come across, be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or any of the 31 flavors of Pagan Robbins lying about the place (Unless one's made of mint chocolate chip. Then we can talk, nootch).

What people choose to do with their beliefs is no business of mine, as long as it's not bothering other people that don't believe that way. If you believe everything the Bible says is absolute, literal truth or Odin's coming back and he's pissed, rock on with your bad selves.

When your religious beliefs start influencing government or public policy, though, then I have a problem. By this, I don't mean the "spirit" of a religion doing the influencing - i.e., JUST "do unto others" or JUST "an' it harm none." "Do unto others" is something of a tenet I try to live by, regardless of my atheism - not because Jesus may or may not have said it, but because it's just basic human decency.

But once you move past those things and into the other beliefs these religions can bring, you enter the danger zone. That basic spirit is rendered meaningless and human suffering inevitably follows. Did more people die at the hands of Islamic fundamentalism on 9-11 than have died at the hands of abortion clinic snipers over the years? Yes. But we cannot say that the abortion clinic shooters aren't as "bad" because they haven't managed to engage in some hardcore LARPin' Donkey Kong with a few airplanes and some really tall buildings. I'm pretty sure that the wife of a doctor gunned down in front of Planned Parenthood felt the same anguish when watching the crime scene footage on the evening news that the wife of a janitor in one of the Twin Towers did as she watched people throwing themselves from the windows in desperation, knowing one of those tiny falling bodies on the TV screen might very well have been her husband.

For me, it's not a matter of degree or numbers. Suffering is suffering. We all must face it in our lives in one form or another, because it is part of the human condition. But it is our responsibility to try to avoid causing more of it when we can - whether you're doing it because the Bible told you so or via your godless moral compass - because it is by this that we achieve grace.

The way to avoid causing suffering is to embrace reason and temperance on a large scale, and a big part of accomplishing that involves not sticking people that are bat**** ****in' crazy in office - PARTICULARLY in the United States. With great power comes great responsibility, to ourselves and to the world. We've got a very long arm, and we exert a lot of influence on the inhabitants of this planet. Allowing a fundamentalist of any stripe enough power to compel a nation to do terrible things is dangerous indeed. It might start out small, like, say...only teaching Creationism to children not old enough to examine it rationally...but it can leap up to terror in no time flat - and if you don't believe me, go ask a Christian or Muslim whose child was killed by India's Bharatiya Janata Party.

Sure, Palin hasn't advocated strapping dynamite to toddlers to kill the Great Beige Satan and, in comparison, instituting Creationism in our classrooms seems harmless, but making a move to indoctrinate our children at a young age will give her beliefs enough traction to begin working their way up the ladder, gaining more influence along the way.

We must, en masse, resolve to pay attention and fight it as soon as we begin to see the seeds of fundamentalism taking root. Regardless of our personal worldviews, we must give "do unto others" its rightful companion - "reason over faith."

If we don't, I'm afraid we may one day wake up to find we need to slap a sign on the Statue of Liberty that says "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."

Everybody Wang Chung Tonight,
Zombie


PS - Wow, I talk a lot. Sorry 'bout that, this is just an issue close to my heart.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by Zombie

I'm with BombaySapphire here. I was raised Catholic, and rejected it wholesale at about 14, because it just didn't make any sense - no more nor less than any other theistic worldview I've come across, be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or any of the 31 flavors of Pagan Robbins lying about the place (Unless one's made of mint chocolate chip. Then we can talk, nootch).

What people choose to do with their beliefs is no business of mine, as long as it's not bothering other people that don't believe that way. If you believe everything the Bible says is absolute, literal truth or Odin's coming back and he's pissed, rock on with your bad selves.

When your religious beliefs start influencing government or public policy, though, then I have a problem. By this, I don't mean the "spirit" of a religion doing the influencing - i.e., JUST "do unto others" or JUST "an' it harm none." "Do unto others" is something of a tenet I try to live by, regardless of my atheism - not because Jesus may or may not have said it, but because it's just basic human decency.

But once you move past those things and into the other beliefs these religions can bring, you enter the danger zone. That basic spirit is rendered meaningless and human suffering inevitably follows. Did more people die at the hands of Islamic fundamentalism on 9-11 than have died at the hands of abortion clinic snipers over the years? Yes. But we cannot say that the abortion clinic shooters aren't as "bad" because they haven't managed to engage in some hardcore LARPin' Donkey Kong with a few airplanes and some really tall buildings. I'm pretty sure that the wife of a doctor gunned down in front of Planned Parenthood felt the same anguish when watching the crime scene footage on the evening news that the wife of a janitor in one of the Twin Towers did as she watched people throwing themselves from the windows in desperation, knowing one of those tiny falling bodies on the TV screen might very well have been her husband.

For me, it's not a matter of degree or numbers. Suffering is suffering. We all must face it in our lives in one form or another, because it is part of the human condition. But it is our responsibility to try to avoid causing more of it when we can - whether you're doing it because the Bible told you so or via your godless moral compass - because it is by this that we achieve grace.

The way to avoid causing suffering is to embrace reason and temperance on a large scale, and a big part of accomplishing that involves not sticking people that are bat**** ****in' crazy in office - PARTICULARLY in the United States. With great power comes great responsibility, to ourselves and to the world. We've got a very long arm, and we exert a lot of influence on the inhabitants of this planet. Allowing a fundamentalist of any stripe enough power to compel a nation to do terrible things is dangerous indeed. It might start out small, like, say...only teaching Creationism to children not old enough to examine it rationally...but it can leap up to terror in no time flat - and if you don't believe me, go ask a Christian or Muslim whose child was killed by India's Bharatiya Janata Party.

Sure, Palin hasn't advocated strapping dynamite to toddlers to kill the Great Beige Satan and, in comparison, instituting Creationism in our classrooms seems harmless, but making a move to indoctrinate our children at a young age will give her beliefs enough traction to begin working their way up the ladder, gaining more influence along the way.

We must, en masse, resolve to pay attention and fight it as soon as we begin to see the seeds of fundamentalism taking root. Regardless of our personal worldviews, we must give "do unto others" its rightful companion - "reason over faith."

If we don't, I'm afraid we may one day wake up to find we need to slap a sign on the Statue of Liberty that says "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."

Everybody Wang Chung Tonight,
Zombie


PS - Wow, I talk a lot. Sorry 'bout that, this is just an issue close to my heart.

No need to apologize Zombie ..wonderfully thought out post you have here and I was moved to read it .Truly we need more people with your view and insights..Welcome to the Ledge!.Hope to see alot more from you here!

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

No need to apologize Zombie ..wonderfully thought out post you have here and I was moved to read it .Truly we need more people with your view and insights..Welcome to the Ledge!.Hope to see alot more from you here!

Hi hi! Thank you. I'm glad to be here! It will give me somewhere to yammer on about Stevie that won't result in my friends or family trying to smother me in my sleep. ;-)

I'm glad you liked the post - I feel like atheism is extremely misunderstood by the general public, so when talking about things like this, I try to present my opinions as best I can. It's my way of trying to let people know we're not all amoral Communists that start each day with eating an aborted fetus we've roasted over a burning American flag before heading out to carry illegal aliens across the border on our backs in order to aid us in taking over the schools so we can urge children to engage in premarital sex, force everyone to get gay married, and feed Twinkies to the obese to jack up the amount of tax dollars going to health care for the terminally liberal.

It's a small dream, but alas, it's the only one I've got.



Here's a great video that goes with the topic at hand: