NBC: Obama chooses Biden as running mate

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Yeah, I don't like him either, but it's more of a gut reaction - intuition, than anything specific I can put my finger on. BombaySapphire3, why do you think he is a sociopath?

Maybe it's just my 20 years of experience as a psychiatric nurse working in a forensic facility and alot of contact with that particular personality type ..I just get that vibe off of him ..like yourself kind a of a gut feeling that something is wrong, my hunch is there is some sociopathy there.I just hope McCain picks someone else which doesn't seem likely and if he doesn't I desperately hope they lose in November.

[Serrart]

He made a choice clearly thinking to the more conservatives in the population, but I think he underrated his potential voters, and proved once again his total inadequacy to be president, mainly for inexperience, then for arrogance.

Romy

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by Serrart

He made a choice clearly thinking to the more conservatives in the population, but I think he underrated his potential voters, and proved once again his total inadequacy to be president, mainly for inexperience, then for arrogance.

Romy

Joe Biden is one of the more liberal members of the Senate and to the left of Hillary..if he was trying to placate consevatives he'd have chosen Sam Nunn a Democrat in name only..and he is not underrating potential voters . Most voters in this country are far to the right by European standards .What else could explain 21% of Hillary supporters willing to switch to McCain and his horrible .horrible running mate Mitt Romney?Just how is Obama arrogant, because he didn't pick Hillary?I'd much prefer to have someone with less experience than someone willing to continue the Iraqi war interminably and willing to choose a nightmare of a VP the likes of Mitt Romney.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Maybe it's just my 20 years of experience as a psychiatric nurse working in a forensic facility and alot of contact with that particular personality type ..I just get that vibe off of him ..like yourself kind a of a gut feeling that something is wrong, my hunch is there is some sociopathy there.I just hope McCain picks someone else which doesn't seem likely and if he doesn't I desperately hope they lose in November.

It was so weird when he became governor here in MA. I thought people had been drugged or something. He made no sense as governor here. I think people voted for the image he projected not actually paying attention to who he is. The image of a good-looking, middle-aged, white guy who is in control and has money and power. Yeah, I don't like him. What a bizarre ticket they have with McCain and Romney. Just odd. Seriously, that's the best they can do?

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Lee

I don't usually get into politics too much, & I didn't really care who Obama picked as his VP because I'd vote for him regardless. I'm from Delaware, born & raised in Delaware & have voted for Joe Biden. I think of him as an asset to Obama (as he is an asset to the senate & the state of Delaware) & the Democratic party. He's a very experienced senator, knows foreign policy, & likes to talk . I think Obama made a good choice.

Lee

I like Biden. In fact I thought he did a great job with his speech today.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

It was so weird when he became governor here in MA. I thought people had been drugged or something. He made no sense as governor here. I think people voted for the image he projected not actually paying attention to who he is. The image of a good-looking, middle-aged, white guy who is in control and has money and power. Yeah, I don't like him. What a bizarre ticket they have with McCain and Romney. Just odd. Seriously, that's the best they can do?

I was so relieved when he did not get the nomination and now that relief is turning to a terrible feeling of foreboding ..I know he is not the official VP choice yet but I fear he will be..I would prefer that McCain pick literally just about anyone no matter how much of a rightwingnut they are over this man..I can't stand Bush and never could even before he ruined the country but really I'd take him over Romney in an instant.

[Serrart]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Joe Biden is one of the more liberal members of the Senate and to the left of Hillary..if he was trying to placate consevatives he'd have chosen Sam Nunn a Democrat in name only..and he is not underrating potential voters . Most voters in this country are far to the right by European standards .What else could explain 21% of Hillary supporters willing to switch to McCain and his horrible .horrible running mate Mitt Romney?Just how is Obama arrogant, because he didn't pick Hillary?I'd much prefer to have someone with less experience than someone willing to continue the Iraqi war interminably and willing to choose a nightmare of a VP the likes of Mitt Romney.

Well, I'm European and I would have voted for Hillary, but I'm not sure I'd vote for Obama, where's the substance in this man? I just hope that if he would be elected, the people who would take decisions in his place would be experienced enough.

Romy

[David]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

. . . willing to choose a nightmare of a VP the likes of Mitt Romney.

Romney is a typical buttinski: If my doctor prescribes marijuana for my pain (from cancer or something else), it's none of Romney's business. This trend of activist conservatives, pushing their noses into everyone's homes, is as distressing as the trend of activist, buttinski collectivists.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by Serrart

Well, I'm European and I would have voted for Hillary, but I'm not sure I'd vote for Obama, where's the substance in this man? I just hope that if he would be elected, the people who would take decisions in his place would be experienced enough.

Romy

I don't find too much of a problem with Obama's descions ..he after all came out against the Iraqi invasion before it even happened.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Serrart

Well, I'm European and I would have voted for Hillary, but I'm not sure I'd vote for Obama, where's the substance in this man? I just hope that if he would be elected, the people who would take decisions in his place would be experienced enough.

Romy

It is unfair to say McCain wants to stay in Iraq for a hundred years. He did not really say that. What he said was this:

McCain, town hall meeting, Jan. 3:

Maybe a hundred. ... We’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. It’s fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world.

He clearly is not talking about the combat troops that are there today. to wit:

DNC vs. McCain

April 29, 2008

Two Democratic Party TV ads hit McCain on Iraq and the economy. We supply context and corrections.

Summary

The Democratic National Committee has produced two TV ads against McCain, hoping to soften him up while the party figures out who its own presidential nominee will be.

One ad shows selected portions of McCain's comments that a 100-year U.S. presence in Iraq would be "fine with me." The ad uses dramatic images of war and violence, and omits any mention that McCain was speaking of a peaceful presence like that in Japan or Korea.

An earlier ad attacks McCain for saying the nation's economy is "prosperous" and "better off overall" than eight years ago. The ad uses a couple of incorrect statistics to argue otherwise. It says the country has lost 1.8 million jobs when, in fact, it has gained nearly 5.4 million, and it says gasoline prices have risen 200 percent, when the actual figure is 139 percent.

Analysis

The latest DNC ad was released April 27 and is set to start running on cable networks next week. An earlier ad has been running lightly on cable since April 20. Both are aimed at raising doubts about Sen. John McCain as he campaigns for the White House – and while Democrats are still trying to sort out whether Sen. Barack Obama or Sen. Hillary Clinton will be their standard-bearer. The DNC is using both ads in fundraising appeals, asking the party faithful to donate money to buy broadcast time for them. It calls the Iraq ad "one of the most powerful television spots Americans will see this year."

Choosing His Words Carefully

The latest ad follows up on a DNC fundraising e-mail, which we critiqued in February, portraying McCain as willing to fight an "endless war" in Iraq.

Offscreen voice: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years.

On screen graphic: Senator McCain. President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years.

McCain: Maybe a hundred. That'd be fine with me.
On screen: 100 years in Iraq.
On screen: 5 years. $500 billion. Over 4,000 dead.
Offscreen voice: President Bush has talked about our staying in Iraq for 50 years.
McCain: Maybe 100.
Narrator: If all he offers is more of the same, is John McCain the right choice for America's future?
On screen: Is John McCain the right choice for America's future?
Narrator: The Democratic National Committee is responsible for the content of this advertising.

It opens with a shot of McCain onstage at a town hall meeting in January. An offscreen voice says President Bush has discussed keeping U.S. troops "in Iraq for 50 years." We see McCain saying, "Maybe a hundred." Pause. "That'd be fine with me." Then we hear an explosion and sirens, accompanied by video of cars on fire, plumes of smoke and general chaos in an obviously dangerous setting. The words "Maybe a hundred" appear on the screen, followed by "5 years," "$500 billion" and "Over 4,000 killed."

The clear implication is that if McCain is elected, we can expect to be battling in Iraq for many decades to come. But the admakers cut off the rest of McCain's response, which provides some badly needed context:

McCain, town hall meeting, Jan. 3: Maybe a hundred. ... We’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me, as long as Americans, as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. It’s fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world.

The DNC ad doesn't mention that McCain was speaking specifically about a peacetime presence. And the text of the ad paired with images of Iraq under siege leave a clear impression that McCain proposes to allow a century more of war, with U.S. involvement. That's not what he said, in New Hampshire or in other settings when he's been asked about it.

Republicans have called the ad a distortion, but DNC Chairman Howard Dean defended it, saying in an NBC News "Meet the Press" interview on Sunday:

Dean, April 27: First of all, we're not arguing that he's going to be at war for a hundred years. We don't think we ought to be in Iraq for a hundred years under any circumstances. Think of the hundreds of billions of dollars that are being spent in Iraq, which we need right here at home right now to preserve American jobs. That's the first thing.

Secondly, if Senator McCain believes that you can occupy a country like Iraq for a hundred years without having a long war and violence and our troops being hurt and, and killed, I think Senator McCain is wrong. ... [D]oes anyone think, who's watching this show, that if you keep our troops in Iraq for a hundred years, people won't be attacking them and won't be setting off suicide bombs and won't be having militias go after them? I don't think so. And most Americans don't think so.

Dean is correct in one sense. His ad doesn't say in so many words that McCain is "going to be at war for a hundred years." But by juxtaposing McCain's words with dramatic, violent images of war, it clearly leaves that impression.

It's one thing to argue, as Dean does, that McCain's position is a recipe for continued violence and bloodshed, whatever his stated intent. But it is another thing to misrepresent that intent. The ad twists the sense of McCain's words by showing images of war, when he was really talking about a peaceful troop presence. Imagine how different the ad would seem if it showed images of, say, American troops walking the streets of Tokyo or Seoul and had included what McCain said about "Americans ... not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed."

Anyone who didn't already know the fuller version of McCain's answer could easily be fooled into thinking that McCain would be perfectly happy to see the war continue. McCain has said quite clearly that he considers Democratic proposals for a quick withdrawal from Iraq to be "surrender," and so deadly fighting could well continue longer under a President McCain than under either a President Hillary Clinton or a President Obama. But what the DNC ad conveys is the opposite of what McCain said.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...vs_mccain.html

Interestingly, both Obama and McCain acknowledge that a military presence in Iraq will continue after the combat troop withdrawal

"I will remove all our combat troops. We will have troops [in Iraq] to protect our embassies and our civilian forces and we will engage in counter terroism activities."
--Barack Obama interview with New York Times, November 2007.

THe combat troops apparently should occur by 2011 if the current deal goes through - thus obviating Obama's plan and negating any suggestion that McCain will keep combat troops there for 100 years. Thus, if this deal goes through, there is no significant difference in the two candidates' plans for troop withdrawls from Iraq. Moreover, it makes Obama look like an a$$ for not voting for the surge. Once agan, the R's appear to have outsmarted the D's on an issue the D's should have easily won.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

I don't find too much of a problem with Obama's descions ..he after all came out against the Iraqi invasion before it even happened.

Which was easy to do when you are not in Congress at the time and, therefore, there is no real ramifications of your vote.

Moreover, his vote against the surge will look unwise. I get that the need for the surge was entirely W's fault for not having enough troops there to begin with, as many if not most of his advisors advised him from the beginning. But, the surge was needed and it worked for the most part. Now, there appears to be a plan for withdrawal. All of this deflates Obama's platform here and makes him look unready to be the Pres.

I know you are totally against the war in Iraq. But, in terms of the election, many people want America to emerge as some sort of winner, which the current proposal allows, and with merit to the declaration.

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by David

Romney is a typical buttinski: If my doctor prescribes marijuana for my pain (from cancer or something else), it's none of Romney's business. This trend of activist conservatives, pushing their noses into everyone's homes, is as distressing as the trend of activist, buttinski collectivists.

Indeed. If McCain makes that awful choice and then wins the election and abruptly buys the farm I think we may be in for an adminisration akin to the one in the film V for Vendetta ..scary stuff.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by BombaySapphire3

Indeed. If McCain makes that awful choice and then wins the election and abruptly buys the farm I think we may be in for an adminisration akin to the one in the film V for Vendetta ..scary stuff.

But, he did not do that in Mass. There was no military state there.

Note - I am not for Mitt R., but the idea that some sort of police state will suddenly emerge is inaccurate. They said that about W and it did not prove to be true. True, the capturees were held at Gitmo, but the Geneva Convention's protections did not apply to them as they were not part of an army, etc. One or two foreign US citizens were held without bail and HC, which I submit was wrong. But, that hardly a police state makes

[strandinthewind]

Analysis: Biden gives Obama old-school cred Story Highlights

Barack Obama chooses Sen. Joe Biden as his running mate

Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1972; chairs key committees

CNN's John King: He'll appeal to Catholic voters, working-class voters

Strategist Paul Begala: Biden needs to link McCain to Bush

By Ed Hornick

DENVER, Colorado (CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama's choice of Sen. Joe Biden as his running mate raises the question of whether Obama can carry off his message of change with a seasoned Washington politician by his side.

Sen. Joe Biden was chosen Saturday as Barack Obama's running mate.

Biden brings to the table an ability to speak knowledgeably about issues ranging from foreign policy to to the country's domestic agenda.

The Delaware senator has held two of the most important jobs in Washington: chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. That could be reassuring to voters who worry about Obama's inexperience in national and world affairs.

Biden also has been an early and vociferous critic of President Bush's foreign policies, most notably regarding the war in Iraq.

He voted for the authorization to invade Iraq but conceded that it was a mistake. Obama opposed the authorization, and that gap might give Republicans something to highlight. Watch a former White House official weigh in on the Biden decision »

But Biden has personal ties to the war. His son Joseph "Beau" Biden, Delaware's attorney general, is a captain in the Army National Guard and will soon return to Iraq.

Nonetheless, his political experience spans 36 years, and some say that will create a problem for Obama's key talking point of change.

House Minority Leader John Boehner responded Saturday to Biden's new role, saying, "Americans looking for a pair of candidates who are ready to fix a broken Washington aren't going to find them on the Obama-Biden ticket."

Shortly after Obama announced Biden as his No. 2, Sen. John McCain's campaign reacted in a television ad showcasing Biden's comments attacking the Illinois senator.

The 30-second spot, set to air in key states, also highlights a 2005 interview of Biden in which he praised McCain: "I would be honored to run with or against John McCain, because I think the country would be better off." Watch McCain's new ad targeting Biden »

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis later responded to Obama's decision in an e-mail to supporters.

"Sen. Obama's choice in a running mate once again brings up his questionable judgment when faced with making major decisions," Davis wrote.

"Sen. Biden has long been a leading critic of Sen. Obama's lack of foreign policy experience. He's criticized Sen. Obama for his lack of leadership and judgment on Iraq, Afghanistan, and his commitment to meet unconditionally with the leaders of rogue states," he added.

McCain advisor Nancy Pfotenhauer told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Saturday that Obama's decision "clearly showcases that Obama is aware that he lacks the experience, if you will, and the judgment in foreign policy arenas."

Obama has routinely criticized his GOP rival for being a Washington insider. McCain has charged that Obama is too inexperienced to run the country, especially its international affairs.

Biden himself touched on this when he was in the running as a presidential candidate. During a Democratic primary debate, moderator George Stephanopoulos of ABC News referred to Biden's criticism of Obama's experience.

"You were asked, 'Is he ready?' You said, 'I think he can be ready, but right now, I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training,' " Stephanopoulos said.

"I think I stand by that statement," Biden replied.

But in July, Biden said he would choose Obama's judgment over McCain's war record and foreign policy experience. Watch more on what Biden brings to the ticket »

"Twenty years of experience that has not been very solid in terms of projecting what was going to happen just doesn't make you a better commander in chief," Biden said, referring to McCain. "We don't need as a commander in chief a war hero. John's a war hero. We need someone with some wisdom."

So how does Biden help Obama politically? Biden is Roman Catholic. There are nearly 70 million Roman Catholics in the United States, about 20 percent of the electorate, and they can tip the balance in a close contest.

Biden also has roots in Pennsylvania, a swing state. Obama lost the state to Sen. Hillary Clinton in the primaries. Biden's support could help the campaign win the state in November. Watch Democrats react to Obama's choice »

"You're getting national security experience, you're getting enthusiasm, and you hope you're getting some help in those white, working-class, blue-collar towns where Barack Obama needs help," CNN Senior National Correspondent John King said.

"The rap on him is that he talks too long, his speeches don't end, and occasionally he goes off the reservation," King added.

CNN Senior Political Correspondent Candy Crowley says Biden is a "very one-on-one person" and "has a personal story as well: triumph over tragedy. ... He brings depth to this ticket."

Biden, 65, was first elected to the Senate at age 29 in 1972. Shortly after, his first wife and daughter were killed in a car accident. He weighed resigning but eventually decided to continue with his political career.

Biden's career has dogged by what some consider to be gaffes. Most notably, a comment he made about Obama received widespread criticism. Watch an iReporter weigh in on Biden »

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook," he said in an interview with the New York Observer newspaper, When faced with criticism, he defended the comment as a compliment taken out of context.

So, can Biden control his tendency to say too much? He is certainly trying.

In an April 27 primary debate, moderator Brian Williams of NBC News asked Biden, "an editorial in the Los Angeles Times said, 'In addition to his uncontrolled verbosity, Biden is a gaffe machine.' Can you reassure voters in this country that you would have the discipline you would need on the world stage, senator?"

Biden simply replied, "yes," eliciting much laughter.

Biden, known for his sharp wit, must now assume the traditional attack-dog role of the vice presidential candidate.

Democratic strategist and CNN contributor Paul Begala, said Saturday morning that he doesn't think Biden should be a "snarling" attack dog, however.

"Biden can help a lot by first reassuring and even more important, putting Bush and McCain on trial and showing that Barack Obama is change. That's what I think we'll see Joe Biden doing over the next couple of months," he said. Watch a former White House official weigh in on the Biden decision »

Shortly after the Obama-Biden ticket was announced early Saturday morning, Republican Sen. Dick Lugar of Indiana offered praise for his Senate colleague.

"I have enjoyed for many years the opportunity to work with Joe Biden to bring strong bipartisan support to United States foreign policy." Lugar said.

Lugar's comments on Biden's bipartisan appeal may hint at a theme the Obama-Biden campaign will highlight in the months to come: We can reach out to GOP and independent voters.

www.cnn.com

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, he did not do that in Mass. There was no military state there.

Note - I am not for Mitt R., but the idea that some sort of police state will suddenly emerge is inaccurate. They said that about W and it did not prove to be true. True, the capturees were held at Gitmo, but the Geneva Convention's protections did not apply to them as they were not part of an army, etc. One or two foreign US citizens were held without bail and HC, which I submit was wrong. But, that hardly a police state makes

The Governership of a fairly small and very liberal sate is a far cry from the Presidency of the U.S...of course I may be a bit off but I have a terrible feeling about Romney .I don't even trust that he would have the best interests of this nation at heart and as much as I disagree with many of his policies I think McCain does .Again I feel worse about Romney than I have ever felt about W ,whom as you know I despise.on edit I also need to point out the total chameleonlike and opportunistic behavior of Romney that enabled him to be the Governer of Mass. and then go on to run for President in an about face of ideology in a very brief space of time the likes of which I have never witnessed .This totally begs the question of who the hell is Romney and what won't he do in a bid for power?I fervently hope that is a question we never have to find out the answer to.