Republican Smear Machine in top Gear

[strandinthewind]

1. He did not take the passages out of context. Anyone who knows The Bible at all knows that.

2. The Bible ought not be in any part of the government. See Federalist Papers and related material. Moreover, our laws are based on the Magna Carter.

3. How is he inaccurate? Christ was a pacifist and expressly stated turning the other cheek was the correct thing to do.

4. This ad an email, like most of the R BS, is utter right wing, Crazy Christian crapola.

But, don't take my word for it:

In the Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus says:

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

A parallel version is offered in the Sermon on the Plain in the Gospel of Luke:

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

—Luke 6:27-31. NIV

Where is the alleged inaccuracy in Obama's comments? Moreover, where exactly is it stated Christ would not apply this dogma to terrorists?

Then again, maybe the far right will attack his valient service in Vietnam with utterly baseless ads, when the R candidate was MIA for a year or two while working for a Senator in Alabama while so called "serving" in the National Guard and the R VP candidate "had better things to do" than serve his country. Hey --- wait a minute that was the last election that was full of R BS lies. Yet, the idiotic American people just lap it up like sheep being lead to the slaughter.

[strandinthewind]

Here are the Biblical verses regarding slavery - again, where is the misinterpretation:

Biblical Verses Condoning and Regulating Slavery
The fact that slavery exists in the Bible is no secret. There are laws regulating its practice; how to buy and sell slaves, what to do if they commit a crime, the degree to which they can be beat, and laws concerning sexual activity with female slaves. Some of these verses are included here. The point here is not to comment on the existence of slavery or the Bible's laws regarding it. My intention is more to increase awareness of its presence in Biblical text. A slave in the Bible (or in Greek, Roman, Islamic, or Egyptian history for that matter) is not the same as a slave in the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. This new form of plantation slavery was unique in history in that it was based solely on race.

Regarding the emancipation of slaves, Jewish slaves were to be freed after six years, except those who were born by the female slave. Female slaves, sold into slavery by their fathers, would be slaves forever. And the cost of freeing a slave was calculated using the number of years to the next Jubilee Year, ranging between 1 and 50 years.

Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."
Deuteronomy 15:12-18 "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."
Exodus 21:7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."
Regarding the beating and killing of slaves, the Book of Exodus contains laws regarding punishment for the one who kills the slave as well as injunctions to avoid injuring the eyes and teeth.

Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."
Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."
The Book of Leviticus prohibited the harsh ruling over other Israelites, but that slaves could be taken from the Gentiles.

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour."
Also, in Leviticus, a distinction is made between the hired servant and the slave.

Leviticus 25:48-53 "After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or any that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself. And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubilee: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him."
Slaves were to undergo circumcision.

Genesis 17:13 "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant."
Genesis 17:27 "And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him."
Female captives are considered spoils of war.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."
Deuteronomy 20:14 "But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself"
The punishment for sexual activity with a female slave who is engaged consisted of animal sacrifice in the Temple. There is no comment on sexual activity with one who is not married or engaged.

Leviticus 19:20-22 "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the Lord, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the Lord for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him."
It is not permitted to return an escaped slave, nor was it permissable to "oppress" him.

Deuteronomy 23:15-16 "Thou shalt not deliver unto his master the servant which is escaped from his master unto thee: He shall dwell with thee, even among you, in that place which he shall choose in one of thy gates, where it liketh him best: thou shalt not oppress him."
The Book of Numbers makes references to thousands of female captives who were to be given to the priests.

Numbers 31:28-47 "And levy a tribute unto the Lord of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the Lord."
Mark 14:66 "And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest."
There were restrictions on reselling slaves. Apparently a Hebrew slave could not be resold.

Exodus 21:8 "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."
If one were to purchase his own brother into slavery, laws in Leviticus prevent treating him as other slaves, but rather as a guest or servant. The Living Bible refers to "a fellow Israelite" rather than "brother."

Leviticus 25:39 "And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubilee: And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return."
The Books of Exodus and Deuteronomy mention that the punishment for kidnapping an Israelite and selling them into slavery is punishable by death. And a debtor who could not pay back creditors could be sold into slavery or have his children sold.

Exodus 21:16 "And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."
Deuteronomy 24:7 "If a man be found stealing any of his brethren of the children of Israel, and maketh merchandise of him, or selleth him; then that thief shall die; and thou shalt put evil away from among you."
II Kings 4:1 "Now there cried a certain woman of the wives of the sons of the prophets unto Elisha, saying, Thy servant my husband is dead; and thou knowest that thy servant did fear the Lord: and the creditor is come to take unto him my two sons to be bondmen."
Slaves could, themselves, own slaves. Saul's slave Ziba owned 20 slaves of his own: 2 Samuel 9:10: "...Now Ziba had fifteen sons and twenty servants."

The Sabbath applied to slaves as well.

Exodus 20:10 "But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates."
The New Testament did not forbid or alter the institution of slavery, nor did it improve their conditions.

1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Colossians 3:11 "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

Sources
The Bible, 21st Century King James Version.
The Bible, King James Version.
The Bible, Modern Language Version.
The Bible, New International Version.
The Bible, New Living Translation.
The Bible, Revised Standard Version.
Ellerbe, Helen, The Dark Side of Christian History, Morning Star Books, 1995.
Wood, Forrest, The Arrogance of Faith, Alfred A. Knopf, 1990.

http://etori.tripod.com/slave-verses.html (cited because quotes were in one place)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

3. How is he inaccurate? Christ was a pacifist and expressly stated turning the other cheek was the correct thing to do.

You are so correct! It is disgusting to me how the true message of Jesus has been twisted and forgotten by these people. Love, peace and compassion are the lessons that were left to us by Jesus..

[strandinthewind]

^^^

The only parts of The Bible that really matter are the phrases hating the filthy fags, the use of the decalogue to condemn the godless baby killers (apparently no woman in that situation even thinks about the decision to abortat all; all crarelessly use it as birth control ) - and, until relatively recently, condone and promote/defend slavery in the US.

Really no other part of it is applied to the lives of many if not most "normal" US citizens, no matter how publicly proclaimed. Look at John Edwards and all the other politicians who are fukcing around on the wives. And, though what Edwards did with the money and all was horrible,m at least he had the decency to cheat with a woman as opposed to soliciting anonymous sex in a bathroom or harrassing under age or barely of age Congressional interns This is why I say have an affair and who gives a shiitte; just do not make money holding yourself out as holier than thou.

If you want to fill your pews, preach hate

Are you out of college yet?

[SuzeQuze]

Paid for by phforamerica.com. If you go to that site it says their goal is to swiftboat Obama with this ad. They want to air it after the DNC to hault his momentum. I think they are overestimating the impact this ad will have though. I think most people will see it as crazy fundamentalist nonsense. Obama clearly was not mocking the bible. He was shining a light on the inappropriateness of applying the bible to government. Anyone with half a brain will see that. I don't think an ad like this will sway any undecideds, except for fundies, which have likely already decided anyway.

Also, the site doesn't really explain who these people are. I don't know what the PH is for. It's really odd.

Also, saying Jesus would not turn the other cheek to terrorists is absurd.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

^^^

The only parts of The Bible that really matter are the phrases hating the filthy fags, the use of the decalogue to condemn the godless baby killers (apparently no woman in that situation even thinks about the decision to abortat all; all crarelessly use it as birth control ) - and, until relatively recently, condone and promote/defend slavery in the US.

Really no other part of it is applied to the lives of many if not most "normal" US citizens, no matter how publicly proclaimed. Look at John Edwards and all the other politicians who are fukcing around on the wives. And, though what Edwards did with the money and all was horrible,m at least he had the decency to cheat with a woman as opposed to soliciting anonymous sex in a bathroom or harrassing under age or barely of age Congressional interns This is why I say have an affair and who gives a shiitte; just do not make money holding yourself out as holier than thou.

If you want to fill your pews, preach hate

Are you out of college yet?

All good points.

And I'm at a stand still with college.. never finished. I've been working as a makeup artist with Bobbi Brown for the time being.. who would have figured.

But.. let's just say I have done a lot of growing up the past couple of years.. from being "out" and making many friends and just living life I have learned a lot, and many of my opinions have changed indeed!

I still consider myself a Republican.. but am sick and tired of President Bush and his lies and also religious nut jobs. I guess you could say I'm more of an old school Republican.. a la Reagan.

As for this election.. I'm not sure I'm voting for anyone.. perhaps Libertarian candidate Bob Barr

[ajmccarrell]

[QUOTE=strandinthewind;768660]^^^

The only parts of The Bible that really matter are the phrases hating the filthy fags, the use of the decalogue to condemn the godless baby killers (apparently no woman in that situation even thinks about the decision to abortat all; all crarelessly use it as birth control ) - and, until relatively recently, condone and promote/defend slavery in the US.

Really no other part of it is applied to the lives of many if not most "normal" US citizens, no matter how publicly proclaimed. Look at John Edwards and all the other politicians who are fukcing around on the wives. And, though what Edwards did with the money and all was horrible,m at least he had the decency to cheat with a woman as opposed to soliciting anonymous sex in a bathroom or harrassing under age or barely of age Congressional interns This is why I say have an affair and who gives a shiitte; just do not make money holding yourself out as holier than thou.

If you want to fill your pews, preach hate

[QUOTE]

I guess Reverend Wright and Father Flueger ought to know all about preaching hate, Obama attends their churches and their pews certainly are full. In the 20 or so years I went to church, I NEVER heard any minister hate anyone or call anyone a "fag" or anything else like that. The only place I've heard "fag" from in the last year, is YOU. All I heard was the cloying phrase, "hate the sin, love the sinner" I take it you've never actually been to church, you just had someone "tell you about it."

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I guess Reverend Wright and Father Flueger ought to know all about preaching hate, Obama attends their churches and their pews certainly are full. In the 20 or so years I went to church, I NEVER heard any minister hate anyone or call anyone a "fag" or anything else like that. The only place I've heard "fag" from in the last year, is YOU. All I heard was the cloying phrase, "hate the sin, love the sinner" I take it you've never actually been to church, you just had someone "tell you about it."

Boy, you sound like me 2 years ago..

While I do agree with you about Reverend Wright Father Flueger and the nasty things they have said.. I do disagree with you about other "churches".. Although they might claim "hate the sin, love the sinner" that is not what most of them do.. they talk about you behind your back and refer to you as "THE gays" like "THE plague" or "THE osmonds" (either way just as bad )

And this is coming from someone who went to church all of their life.. a pretty good church too. My point being.. there is evil on both sides of the court.. and churches are loving less and less, which is a shame.

like someone who thinks a lot like me, recently wrote in their online blog..

"What if one could believe in Jesus and not be a Christian? In the spirit of that question I've decided to call myself a Jesust. Was is a Jesust? A Jesust believes Jesus was an enlightened being, a divine child of God, and spoke about mankind the way it could be. He preached love and forgiveness and sought to inspire all those around him. He was a great leader and in the absence of any currently it is my opinion that he has never been more relevant. Peace."

- Emma Caulfield (Actress/Producer/Director/and yes, believe it or not a REAL Republican!)

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Boy, you sound like me 2 years ago..

While I do agree with you about Reverend Wright Father Flueger and the nasty things they have said.. I do disagree with you about other "churches".. Although they might claim "hate the sin, love the sinner" that is not what most of them do.. they talk about you behind your back and refer to you as "THE gays" like "THE plague" or "THE osmonds" (either way just as bad )

And this is coming from someone who went to church all of their life.. a pretty good church too. My point being.. there is evil on both sides of the court.. and churches are loving less and less, which is a shame.

like someone who thinks a lot like me, recently wrote in their online blog..

"What if one could believe in Jesus and not be a Christian? In the spirit of that question I've decided to call myself a Jesust. Was is a Jesust? A Jesust believes Jesus was an enlightened being, a divine child of God, and spoke about mankind the way it could be. He preached love and forgiveness and sought to inspire all those around him. He was a great leader and in the absence of any currently it is my opinion that he has never been more relevant. Peace."

- Emma Caulfield (Actress/Producer/Director/and yes, believe it or not a REAL Republican!)

I left the church some 6 years ago. If you recall, I grew up in a right wing radical cult. Even there, I never heard anything like what you are talking about. The only place I've heard this kind of talk is from left wing radicals, such as those on this post here, supposedly quoting "evangelicals" that don't exist. When asked for a mainstream republican that has ever said anything like this, they typically shut down. Frankly, the only place I hear hate of any kind is from leftists that hate right wingers. There was even a rap song I heard yesterday that said that the rappers wanted to kill Bill O'Reilly's family in front of him while he had to watch. You NEVER hear this kind of anger and hate coming from the right wing. Left wingers are just angry, hateful, spiteful and ignorant people who create characatures of people on the other side to hate with a wild eyed intensity.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

. Left wingers are just angry, hateful, spiteful and ignorant people who create characatures of people on the other side to hate with a wild eyed intensity.

Yes.. AND so are Right wingers.. they are guilty of the same.

Anyone who calls themself anything that ends in "winger" isn't thinking reasonably if you ask me. This has been my experience anyway. The political landscape in this country has gone awry. What ever happened to reasonable, rational thinking.. The major parties (or at least those that represent them) are too extreme!

[BombaySapphire3]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

I left the church some 6 years ago. If you recall, I grew up in a right wing radical cult. Even there, I never heard anything like what you are talking about. The only place I've heard this kind of talk is from left wing radicals, such as those on this post here, supposedly quoting "evangelicals" that don't exist. When asked for a mainstream republican that has ever said anything like this, they typically shut down. Frankly, the only place I hear hate of any kind is from leftists that hate right wingers. There was even a rap song I heard yesterday that said that the rappers wanted to kill Bill O'Reilly's family in front of him while he had to watch. You NEVER hear this kind of anger and hate coming from the right wing. Left wingers are just angry, hateful, spiteful and ignorant people who create characatures of people on the other side to hate with a wild eyed intensity.

Tell that to the people in the Knoxville Unitarain church that were gunned down by a rightwinger who hated "liberals"I don't recall any rabid leftwingers in this country shooting anyone in recent times who did not agree with their politics.In fact the worst homegrown terrorist attack in this country's history was commited by a clear rightwingnut in Oklahoma City .Have you ever thought of going through a cult deprogramming ?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

When asked for a mainstream republican that has ever said anything like this, they typically shut down.

Frankly, the only place I hear hate of any kind is from leftists that hate right wingers.

You NEVER hear this kind of anger and hate coming from the right wing.

Oklahoma State Representative, Sally Kern:
"Studies show, no society that has totally embraced homosexuality has lasted for more than, you know, a few decades."

"I honestly think it’s the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam."

"They want to get them into the government schools so they can indoctrinate them. They are going after our young children, as young as two years of age, to try to teach them that the homosexual lifestyle is an acceptable lifestyle."

"You know, Gays are infiltrating city councils. Did you know that the city council of Eureka Springs is now controlled by gays? They are winning elections."

"This stuff is deadly and it is spreading. It will destroy our young people and it will destroy this nation."

Ohio Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell:
"I don't know how many of you have a farming background but I can tell you right now that [same-sex relationships] even defies barnyard logic... the barnyard knows better."

Minnesota State Senator, Michele Bachmann:
"Little children will be forced to learn that homosexuality is normal and natural and perhaps they should try it."

"This is not about hating homosexuals. I love homosexuals. But should we allow them to teach sinful ways [to] our children?"

Colorado Congresswoman, Marilyn Musgrave:
"I believe that when you’re in a cultural war like this, you have to respond with equal and hopefully greater force if you want to win this battle. But this battle is the most important issue that we face today, and what an honor it has been to serve in the United States Congress and carry the Marriage Amendment."

"The future is grim unless we do what we need to do to win this battle."

"As we face the issues that we are facing today, I don’t think there's anything more important out there than the marriage issue."

Pennsylvania Senator, Rick Santorum:
"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual (gay) sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. All of those things are antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family. And that’s sort of where we are in today’s world, unfortunately."



Then, of course, there's Trent Lott who compared homosexuality to kleptomania and other "problems" and "addictions," and Dick Armey who referred to openly gay Massachusetts Representative Barney Frank as "Barney Fag."

Plus there are the many and numerous Republican politicians whom, while at least knowing to keep their mouths shut, never fail to vote against civil rights of any form when it involves gays & lesbians (such as wanting to exclude sexual orientation from Hate Crime legislation, blocking homosexuals from adopting, denying health-care benefits to homosexual couples, etc., etc.)

And if we're not limiting our discussion to politicians, I can fill the next four or five pages of this thread with anti-gay quotes from the likes of Ann Coulter and Michael Savage.

Left-wingers may not be angels, AJ, but let's not pretend that Right-wingers are all sweetness and love.

[estranged4life]

Sally Kern is a blittering idiot...Now she thinks she is 'Marshall Dillon' (I would have said Annie Oakley, but she is a relative of mine) :

Firearm Possession (from wikipedia)

"On July 23, 2008, Kern was stopped by security guards in the Oklahoma State Capitol when she tried bringing a loaded gun into the building. The gun was a .380 caliber semiautomatic handgun. Kern had a permit for the gun and claimed she brought it into the building by accident. It was later confirmed that a second incident in which Kern made it into the building with a gun occurred in June 2008. Kern was not charged for either incident."

[vivfox]

Um I'm still not sure who I am gonna vote for. You all teach me a lot, just to let you know. When I do make up my mind it will be because of your influence.

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Sources
The Bible, 21st Century King James Version.
The Bible, King James Version.
The Bible, Modern Language Version.
The Bible, New International Version.
The Bible, New Living Translation.
The Bible, Revised Standard Version.
Ellerbe, Helen, The Dark Side of Christian History, Morning Star Books, 1995.
Wood, Forrest, The Arrogance of Faith, Alfred A. Knopf, 1990.

How come you didn't take your translations of the Hebrew Bible from the Jewish Publication Society edition?

I've often thought it would be kinda cool to own slaves, but it would be unfair to the slaves because all people should have liberty & opportunity to live freely.