Other Singers Views of Stevie?

[Nikolaj]

I've ordered a book from Amazon called 'Girls Like Us' by Sheila Weller which is a 592 page book about Joni Mitchell, Carole King, and Carly Simon and the evolution of the female songwriter-singer boom (of sorts) of the early 1970's- (though King had written many hits before the mid 60s)-- Carly Simon was interviewed (extensively, supposedly, by the author) and the book is reviewed as a page-turner, but filled with way, way too many long, run-on sentences, half-page footnotes and can be confusing to read because the author goes off on so many tangents- sounded perfectto me
Anyway, on Simon's site there is an interview from the LA Times, and Carly said she had only read some of the book and didnt necessarily agree with the author's premise that there was a huge upswing in women songwriters due to the success of herself, King and Mitchell... Then, Simon said "what it lead to was imitators who weren't respected for anything other than looking good and selling albums"-- this quote is very recent.
Though Carly didn't mention Stevie by name, i wonder who else she could have meant? Carly's 1980 and 81 (circa) releases 'Come Upstairs' and 'Torch' did fine, but definitely weren't the blockbuster that was 'Bella Donna' and i'm not remembering female singer-songwriters after Carly who had much impact, other than Stevie. (and actually, re: 'Torch' Simon has said that it was only years later, doing well as a catlogue item of hers, that 'Torch' was considered to be a success, it's sales i guess were so-so upon release...
Then a few nights ago, i was watching the director commentary on the 'Gypsy 83' DVD, and the director said that Debbie Harry had been offered the (rather) good role that Karen Black wound up playing in the movie, and he said Debbie turned down being in the movie "because she REALLY hates Stevie Nicks"-- i wonder why... was it competition, jealousy over riches, status, just didn't care for her music?? i find these things interesting, don't know if anyone else does. I should also note that in the director's commentary, he was clearly very hurt that Stevie and her management didn't allow for any Stevie Nicks songs to be used in the film, he kept 'hoping it would work out, and proceeded as if it would, but we never got the rights'-- One song cut from the movie, he said, was the film's star, Sara Rue (sp) singing 'JULIA' of all songs!! (the only "Stevie song" we ever get to hear in the movie are opening bars of 'Talk To Me' -- ofcourse not written by Nicks-- which is played very badly by whomever in the background, while the leads of the movie pretending they are listening to the real Stevie)-- So, could the directors still-hurt feelings caused him to fabricate that Debbie made the comment about Stevie, i don't know. But he didn't seem bitter, just sad. (and to me, the film is kinda pointless without any Nicks songs in it, it really hurt the movie)....
On the + side, i do recall Linda Ronstadt speaking favorably about enjoying Stevie Nicks (when Waddy went from being lead guitarist on several of Linda's toursand into Stevie's Bella Donna touring band) and i have also read that Bette Midler likes Stevie very much and has called Stevie "the voice of a generation"-
Sometime in the late 1970s, Carly Simon had made a very brief, but surprisingly negative remark to People magazine about the singing talent of - not Stevie, but Linda Ronstadt. (Perhaps sour grapes, because Linda pretty much took Carly's short reign as a top LP seller of this mid 70s era, Carly having had peaked from 1972-74)
Then, one of the first LPS James Taylor appeared on after/during his divorce from Carly was Linda's album 'Get Closer' (1982, i think) where Linda and James sang a fun duet of an old Ike'nTina song 'I Think It's Gonna Work Out Fine' which i suspect James partly recorded with Linda to tweak Carly...
Does anybody know of other singers who have spoken positively or negatively about Stevie (of course, Tom Petty and Don Henley have made some nice comments)or did anyone else see this recent comment from Carly about 'imitators not respected for anything but looking good and selling albums' and think she may have meant Stevie? Or could it be Linda (again?!) she's referencing, though Linda only recorded two songs that she co-wrote in the 70s, and the reference she made was to whether she and Carole and Joni had opened doors for other female singer-songwriters...
Anyone read 'Girls Like Us' here? Ok...sorry for the ramble, but just the topic just interests me.. Gossipy i guess... ) i do also recall Michael Richards, long before he hit on Seinfeld, mocking Stevie's lyrics on 'Fridays' which was a one-season ABC late night variety show that aired in the early 80s, saying her songs were 'like high-school yearbook poetry that's been set to music'--- Not nice of the future 'Kramer'
so, any further Stevie by other stars, pro and con?

[AmbrFireflie]

debbie harry must not hate stevie since i read she went to a night of a thousand stevies as did madonna-and i want to go too and as for carly simon, i hope she wasnt talking **** because stevie is one of the best writers, with more than 1 song that connects her with fans. On a different note just for an example, i love ann wilson's voice and seen her kick ass in concert, but Stevie to me is a better writer and can exude so much "something" in her shows, I cant explain it but her songs have stood the test of time just might thoughts -peace

[michelej1]

Well, you know that Sheryl Crow, Natalie Maines and Sarah M. love Stevie and have cited her as an influence on their own careers. That's just to name a few.

Michele

[David]

I have no trouble believing Debbie Harry hates -- or hated -- Stevie Nicks.

I also wanted to say that I think it's illogical to assume that one singer's negative comment about another singer necessarily stems from jealousy.

I remember Ronstadt saying some nice things about Nicks & Chris McVie in the book "Women of Rock," published in the late 1970s. Ronstadt was talking about how she felt she had nothing more to contribute to rock music, especially at a time when other women, like Stevie & Chris & the Wilson sisters, were making such notable strides.

What's weird to me about the other singers who say they love Stevie (most of whom seem to have sprung from the Lilith Fair lineup) is that, when they're asked about her music, they mention a few big hits -- DREAMS, typically -- & that's about it. It usually sounds as if they have no more interest in Stevie's music than your average radio DJ. You don't find the kind of profound identification with & knowledge of Stevie that you see, for example, in Matthew Sweet's comments about Lindsey (or Lindsey's comments about the Talking Heads or the Clash or Scotty Moore). Even Sheryl Crow, when she talks about Stevie, trots out mostly the same cliches you might read in Teen Beat; she has more to say about Stevie being a nice lady or about her old shag haircut than about her songwriting.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

What's weird to me about the other singers who say they love Stevie (most of whom seem to have sprung from the Lilith Fair lineup) is that, when they're asked about her music, they mention a few big hits -- DREAMS, typically -- & that's about it. It usually sounds as if they have no more interest in Stevie's music than your average radio DJ. You don't find the kind of profound identification with & knowledge of Stevie that you see, for example, in Matthew Sweet's comments about Lindsey (or Lindsey's comments about the Talking Heads or the Clash or Scotty Moore). Even Sheryl Crow, when she talks about Stevie, trots out mostly the same cliches you might read in Teen Beat; she has more to say about Stevie being a nice lady or about her old shag haircut than about her songwriting.

Well, Courtney was really into GDW -- of course -- that's from the popular Rumours too, but it seemed like she had thought a lot about it's meaning, in her coked out way. I remember Sheryl thinking about when If You Ever Did Believe was written and concluding it was about Mick -- which is what we fans do too, but from her it was annoying. I decided I really didn't want her to talk about Stevie's music in specifics.


Michele

[David]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Well, Courtney was really into GDW -- of course -- that's from the popular Rumours too, but it seemed like she had thought a lot about it's meaning, in her coked out way.

Thanks for reminding me. Courtney is an exception. I remember that print piece with Courtney & Stevie from . . . 1998? . . . in which Courtney interviews Stevie. Courtney had many fanatical-style things to say about Stevie's music & persona & influence, & it was the most interesting thing I've ever heard another singer say about Stevie (other than perhaps John Stewart's comments about "Angel" & other Tusk songs). It struck me as authentic (no matter how drug-addled) fan commentary.

[vermicious knid]

Grace Slick said "Oh, the witch. I love the witch." Someone thought she was being snotty to say that, but I think she was being genuine.

I really can not imagine that Madonna ever went to Night of a Thousand Stevies. I would bet $500 that never happened. Apparently she did see a show on The Dance tour, though. Someone said they saw a picture of Stevie and Madonna together, which I would love to see if it really exists. Maybe they were mistaken.

[DavidMn]

Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for reminding me. Courtney is an exception. I remember that print piece with Courtney & Stevie from . . . 1998? . . ..

What I love most about that interview is the way Courtney wears Stevie down. Better men have tried, but Courtney is the champ. Stevie was like, 'well, whatever . . . . yeah, I guess it had to be about something.' I think she went home and went to sleep after Coutney was through with her. Michele

[GODDESS6]

Originally Posted by vermicious knid

Grace Slick said "Oh, the witch. I love the witch." Someone thought she was being snotty to say that, but I think she was being genuine.

I really can not imagine that Madonna ever went to Night of a Thousand Stevies. I would bet $500 that never happened. Apparently she did see a show on The Dance tour, though. Someone said they saw a picture of Stevie and Madonna together, which I would love to see if it really exists. Maybe they were mistaken.

i took grace's comment to be endearing also~

[RockALittle250]

Here's a link that mentions Debbie Harry at NOTS plus pics of her dressed as Stevie.

http://www.briannaaustin.com/photoga...05/nots05.html

[jwd]

Excellent topic! There's a lot to digest in your post Nikolaj. I think I'll just comment on a few and then come back later.

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

Anyway, on Simon's site there is an interview from the LA Times, and Carly said she had only read some of the book and didnt necessarily agree with the author's premise that there was a huge upswing in women songwriters due to the success of herself, King and Mitchell... Then, Simon said "what it lead to was imitators who weren't respected for anything other than looking good and selling albums"-- this quote is very recent.

I don't think Carly Simon was referring to what happened immediatelyafter she became successful as a woman songwriter, but was more than likely referring to the state of music today, with the likes of Britney Spears and Jennifer Lopez. I couldn't imagine that she would be ragging on women like Stevie, Ann Wilson, and Linda Ronstadt. Furthermore I believe that she basically didn't buy into the premise that there WAS a big upswing in women songwriters after her. Rock and roll was, and still is, a man's world. We all know how many times Stevie herself has commented on that sentiment.

i was watching the director commentary on the 'Gypsy 83' DVD, and the director said that Debbie Harry had been offered the (rather) good role that Karen Black wound up playing in the movie, and he said Debbie turned down being in the movie "because she REALLY hates Stevie Nicks"-- i wonder why... was it competition, jealousy over riches, status, just didn't care for her music??
I should also note that in the director's commentary, he was clearly very hurt that Stevie and her management didn't allow for any Stevie Nicks songs to be used in the film, he kept 'hoping it would work out, and proceeded as if it would, but we never got the rights'-- One song cut from the movie, he said, was the film's star, Sara Rue (sp) singing 'JULIA' of all songs!! (the only "Stevie song" we ever get to hear in the movie are opening bars of 'Talk To Me' -- ofcourse not written by Nicks-- which is played very badly by whomever in the background, while the leads of the movie pretending they are listening to the real Stevie)-- So, could the directors still-hurt feelings caused him to fabricate that Debbie made the comment about Stevie, i don't know. But he didn't seem bitter, just sad.

I think that's as simple as "connecting the dots". I don't think Debbie Harry HATES Stevie Nicks. She may have not felt comfortable in the role, for personal and/or artistic reasons. If the director didn't fabricate this story, I'd sure as hell bet that he elaborated on it.

[petep9000]

Originally Posted by michelej1

What I love most about that interview is the way Courtney wears Stevie down. Better men have tried, but Courtney is the champ. Stevie was like, 'well, whatever . . . . yeah, I guess it had to be about something.' I think she went home and went to sleep after Coutney was through with her. Michele

Actually, it was more like "You know what? I don't really know what it's about. I can't be all about cocaine.."
and Court says "Yeah. You're deeper than that."

I got the impression that Courtney wanted to go WAY deep into Shangri-La, and Stevie was meeting her a little more than halfway but not all the way. Like the part about how the guys in The Eagles dressed, Stevie said "I don't know, I just remembered they looked good" where Courtney wanted Stevie to paint the whole picture about the tight jeans, silk shirts, boots, belt buckels etc.

[jwd]

Terri Nunn of Berlin:

"It might come as a surprise then to hear that Terri (who has inarguably inspired legions of modern female rockers) was first inspired by male role models like Robert Plant and David Bowie. ?The first artists that changed my brain about what I wanted to do were men,? Terri confesses. ?On stage they were really loud, powerful, sexy and irreverent. The guys seemed to have a lot more fun than any of the girls I saw.? But Terri?s perception shifted when she discovered the artistry of three very distinct women in rock: Grace Slick, Anne Wilson and Stevie Nicks. ?Grace Slick was really like a guy on stage, and she showed me the role I wanted in a rock band,? Terri explains. ?Anne Wilson also had an incredible vocal power and presence, because she was very influenced by Robert Plant. Then I discovered Stevie Nicks, who was femininity and mystery in the midst of the rock world, and I wanted that, too. As an artist and singer, I modeled my life after those three women.?"

http://www.ink19.com/issues/june2006...ndMetroAn.html

[vermicious knid]

I couldn't find the quote, but Dale Bozzio of Missing Persons said Stevie was something of an idol. They performed at the Us Festival on the same day, and she mentioned that as being a memorable thing. Actually, Berlin, Missing Persons, and Stevie were all on the same day.


Hey, Stevie has had both green and red hair at different points in her life. OMG twinsies!!!!