Stevie Nicks Says Issues With Lindsey Buckingham Threaten Her Involvement With FM

[trackaghost]

The sales thing has always baffled me too, as I've said many times in the past, why it bothers anyone outside of the record company I have no clue. As long as Lindsey is still producing good music, the chart position doesn't concern me. I think maybe Lindsey was going for something more commercial with OOTC, but because the time was completely wrong for that album (grunge, alternative and indie music took over in the early 90s) it didn't do as well as say, Stevie's OSOTM. If he had released OOTC on the back of Tango, I'm pretty certain it would have been a bigger, breakthrough hit for him. The rest of his solo output screams artistic integrity over sales. Why would he put out an album even more oddball than Tusk with Law And Order, when he already had the band on his back for ruining potential Rumours-like sales with its weirdness, if he was out to prove himself as a big-selling solo artist?
Like I said in this thread, I think Lindsey has been jealous of Stevie in the past, but not of her sales, I think he's jealous of the recognition she gets as being the driving force of Fleetwood Mac's popularity. Her success as a solo artist only seemed to prove that in many people's minds that she was the reason the band became a million seller. Considering he was the producer, arranger, singer, songwriter, guitarist in the band, you can understand why he might be a little irked that this little blonde chick singer who can't even play an instrument properly and needs help to finish her songs, and his ex-girlfriend to boot, got more credit than him.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The sales thing has always baffled me too, as I've said many times in the past, why it bothers anyone outside of the record company I have no clue. As long as Lindsey is still producing good music, the chart position doesn't concern me. I think maybe Lindsey was going for something more commercial with OOTC, but because the time was completely wrong for that album (grunge, alternative and indie music took over in the early 90s) it didn't do as well as say, Stevie's OSOTM. If he had released OOTC on the back of Tango, I'm pretty certain it would have been a bigger, breakthrough hit for him.

OOTC is a good example, because I think it was his most commercially accessible album and certainly got the best reviews. Lindsey was on tour for that when Clinton was elected, but Stevie still had to beg him to perform with FM. Was he just playing hard to get? Did he want to serenade the president with FM as much as Stevie did? I don't think so, because Stevie would have been open to a reunion after the inaugural performance, but it was Lindsey who was not. He could have rejoined the band then just to get his solo album more attention, but he didn't. I think he felt that things were just as bad in 1993 as they had been when he left and it was too painful to think about going back emotionally, whether it could have helped his solo career to do so or not.

And I don't say this to suggest Lindsey is selfless. He's selfish, but the things that give him selfish satisfaction are not what motivate other people.

At work, I was hiring an associate and the personnel agency sent me a bunch of Myers-Briggs profile results for different applicants. I don't think those kind of personality tests really help hire employees, but they do show how different people tick a different way. Extroverts are stimulated by things outside of themselves, social interaction and action. Introverts like ideas and concepts more; they're stirred up from inside. An extrovert's goals will be different from an introvert's. So, when Jason said that he has testicles and he thinks that Lindsey probably feels like he does, I really think that was a leap. Stevie and Chris both have breasts, but they didn't want the same things.

Chris says she felt self-conscious performing Songbird all alone in the spotlight, but Lindsey, Mick and John encouraged her to do it. The spotlight doesn't make Stevie feel self-conscious. I can't say what will make Chris happy by looking at Stevie or by looking at what would make me happy. As there are different people, I think there are different yardsticks to measure success.


Michele

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Like I said in this thread, I think Lindsey has been jealous of Stevie in the past, but not of her sales, I think he's jealous of the recognition she gets as being the driving force of Fleetwood Mac's popularity. Her success as a solo artist only seemed to prove that in many people's minds that she was the reason the band became a million seller. Considering he was the producer, arranger, singer, songwriter, guitarist in the band, you can understand why he might be a little irked that this little blonde chick singer who can't even play an instrument properly and needs help to finish her songs, and his ex-girlfriend to boot, got more credit than him.

I agree 100%. You worded that very well.

It's the "bittersweet" he talked about.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Stevie and Chris both have breasts

I believe the proper term is chesticles.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Sarah

. . .
i didn't pull any crap over on you. i countered your opinion with "why" and you cried foul. whoop dee doo, but you still haven't gotten to the point.

As I stated a few times, my point was and is that I think the sales figures and release dates I posted, along with his actual comments during The Dance, indicate a pattern exists which shows that since Tusk, LB seemingly uses or used FM to regain a larger fanbase he could not sustain on his own, esp. after OOTC, which to me suggests that in the past he has cared about, inter alia, sales and I do not blame him. Who wouldn't want to be a success on their own terms? I think he would have loved nothing better than to have a wildly successful solo record that was also critically acclaimed - sort of an "I told you" kind of thing.

I think the patterns suggest he knows he cannot sell solo records and/or reach a wide audience without FM. So, he tries to time the solo records soon after a FM record. However, his genius and time issues of apparently his own making prevent him from achieving that goal and in two instances I know of, his delays (for whatever reason) seemingly caused his solo ventures to morph into FM projects, which he then complained about. I then said that he seems to have gotten over that in the case of his last record, which I think you must not have read.

Note - I think he also likes being in FM for a variety of other reasons notwithstanding his clever (to me) intent to use of the FM fame wave despite his apparent inability to execute the intent in a timely or effective manner in the past, which is what the chart was posted to show. I do not think he is a bad person for this, which is what I think you think I am saying.

That is all I said. I never said I know more than anyone else, which you accused me of. I was just speculating based on what I see - just like everyone else around here - and trying to support my view with what we think are the facts. Yet you accused me of "or is it just taking a dump on the man because you need something - anything - to back-and-forth with someone on?" - like I am some pathetic horrible freak who will argue with the wall. To these eyes, that was a personal attack. Last I checked, about five or six other people were in the conversation and we were all making good points in a civil and humorous manner, which is what you do on a discussion board. I also in no way berated him in that discussion other than to note that he takes his time, which I suggest is a fact everyone here acknowledges. I did say earlier I thought it was strange that people seemingly automatically believed LB was a saint and La Nicks was making all this drama up. But, people came back and told me that was not what they were saying. They agreed LB likely is a jerk part of the time, but they were over La Nicks airing the dirty laundry in public. I accepted that and we moved on.

So, I just do not get why you chose to say things like you said them. I think it was rude. But, whatever - let's move on.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by michelej1

. . . I don't think so, because Stevie would have been open to a reunion after the inaugural performance, but it was Lindsey who was not . . . .

I do not think she would have been. JMO, but I think she was pretty much over FM by then, though her state of mind was questionable at best. Also, SA was in production and she had to release it and tour, which was a year to a year and a half at best Also, she likely was still feuding with Mick about SS and 91's Timespace. But, who knows, she might have been open to it. Was there any press about it at the time. I do not remember any, but there was no net then. When did she actually officially leave FM. I think it was after the Clinton thing because Mick mentions that was her last performance.

I also think LB was so bitter about OOTC's lack of commercial success and TITN's touring success without him that he was still licking his wounds and concentrating on GOS, which was being recorded around that time or relatively soon thereafter and with other members of FM no less - so, he must have gotten over it Then, he and La Nicks worked on Twisted, which I think was her way of reaching out to him when she got clean and realized what a pill she had been to everyone. I think she also thought Twisted might have been a hit they she, LB, and FM so desparately needed then.

Originally Posted by michelej1

. . . So, when Jason said that he has testicles and he thinks that Lindsey probably feels like he does, I really think that was a leap . . . .

It was meant as a joking reference to the male ego

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The sales thing has always baffled me too, as I've said many times in the past, why it bothers anyone outside of the record company I have no clue.

Originally Posted by trackaghost

If he had released OOTC on the back of Tango, I'm pretty certain it would have been a bigger, breakthrough hit for him.

I agree. That is what I think the charts I posted indicated. Look at how soon L&O was released after Tusk and it was a success. He has not timed the other stuff as well IMO. I also think GOS had huge commercial potential, espo. the brilliant Peacekeeper, but he seemingly waited to long after The Dance to get it out.

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I think Lindsey has been jealous of Stevie in the past, but not of her sales, I think he's jealous of the recognition she gets as being the driving force of Fleetwood Mac's popularity. Her success as a solo artist only seemed to prove that in many people's minds that she was the reason the band became a million seller. Considering he was the producer, arranger, singer, songwriter, guitarist in the band, you can understand why he might be a little irked that this little blonde chick singer who can't even play an instrument properly and needs help to finish her songs, and his ex-girlfriend to boot, got more credit than him.

I agree. He even alludes to this and she has flat out said it. Interestingly, CM never really seemed jealous of La Nicks' success - or at least I do not remember hearing about it.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I do not think she would have been. JMO, but I think she was pretty much over FM by then, though her state of mind was questionable at best.

In 1991 she was still saying that they all believed in dreams and fairy tales and they all hoped he would change his mind, but she knew he never would. Then, after the inauguration she said it looked like they wouldn't be getting back together, as if she had held out hope that they might, but it never came to fruition. In 1992 when asked if she would return to FM she said,

It isn't even up to me. It's really up to whether the rest of the people in Fleetwood Mac could gather. I'm pretty easy. If Lindsey and Chris and John and Mick sat here and said "We're going to do an album next year and we'd like to know if you would like to do it with us." I think my answer would probably be "well, of course, how could I not?" But, if it goes from manager to manager and phone call to phone call and lies and stupid things being said about everything that's going on that really isn't happening, then I might say no. But if they came to me in the right way and just sat there and said "we want to do this and we really want you to do it with us," then what could I say except yes just based on the love, caring and time that we have spent together.

Then in 1994 she said she'd consider going back to FM if she got a friendly, hopeful vibe from Lindsey, "which usually isn't there."

So, I think she would have done it in 1992

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I also think LB was so bitter about OOTC's lack of commercial success and TITN's touring success without him that he was still licking his wounds and concentrating on GOS, which was being recorded around that time or relatively soon thereafter

OOTC had only recently come out at the time, which is why I said he could have used the inauguration to help promote it, but he didn't. He didn't start working on GOS until several years later.

Michele

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

No she's just pissed that that album didn't sell and she blames him, not the poor quality of her songwriting. That's the bottomline.

She wrote an AMAZING song with Smile At You, granted 20 something years earlier but still it wasn't the quality of the songwriting that made it less then stellar, it was Lindsey's retooling of it.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by michelej1

In 1991 she was still saying that they all believed in dreams and fairy tales and they all hoped he would change his mind, but she knew he never would. Then, after the inauguration she said it looked like they wouldn't be getting back together, as if she had held out hope that they might, but it never came to fruition. In 1992 when asked if she would return to FM she said,

It isn't even up to me. It's really up to whether the rest of the people in Fleetwood Mac could gather. I'm pretty easy. If Lindsey and Chris and John and Mick sat here and said "We're going to do an album next year and we'd like to know if you would like to do it with us." I think my answer would probably be "well, of course, how could I not?" But, if it goes from manager to manager and phone call to phone call and lies and stupid things being said about everything that's going on that really isn't happening, then I might say no. But if they came to me in the right way and just sat there and said "we want to do this and we really want you to do it with us," then what could I say except yes just based on the love, caring and time that we have spent together.

Then in 1994 she said she'd consider going back to FM if she got a friendly, hopeful vibe from Lindsey, "which usually isn't there."

So, I think she would have done it in 1992

Touche'

But, she would have had to wait until after SA was over, which was about 1995 and possibly longer if it had been a success and had she toured Europe. In hindsight, it was not a success.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

She wrote an AMAZING song with Smile At You, granted 20 something years earlier but still it wasn't the quality of the songwriting that made it less then stellar, it was Lindsey's retooling of it.

And - La Nicks delivers some of the most searing vocals to date on that SYW version.

As for her writing, I think the song TISL, TD, Space Needle (BEGS for a Sara like production) - Illume, and Bombay Sapphires are IMO all very well written songs. The thing about La Nicks is her final product is limited by the talent of the producer (save maybe for BS, which she says she produced herself). That lack of talent hurts her in the end and IMO.

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

And - La Nicks delivers some of the most searing vocals to date on that SYW version.

Huh? Searing? Remind me not to eat steak at your house, pal.

As for her writing, I think the song TISL, TD, Space Needle (BEGS for a Sara like production) - Illume, and Bombay Sapphires are IMO all very well written songs.

Yeah, Stevie always writes pretty good songs, & even in the old days when she wrote a bit of a clunker (like GATE & GARDEN), she could always put it over anyway with her singing.

She's a beautiful lady, my Stevie.

Originally Posted by Michelle1

In 1991 she was still saying that they all believed in dreams and fairy tales and they all hoped he would change his mind, but she knew he never would. Then, after the inauguration she said it looked like they wouldn't be getting back together, as if she had held out hope that they might, but it never came to fruition.

Yeah, that was an unpleasant, embarrassed time for all (except for Christine, who has such good poise under social pressure). Remember that press conference the four of them gave? Stevie no show, but the others were mostly sweating bullets & shifting frequently on their bums, from one cheek to the other & then back again, vibrating their legs violently under the table, as they tried to explain to the reporters why Lindsey wasn't IN Fleetwood Mac & whether Mick's book was a tasteful, elegant précis or a sleazy, crass potboiler.

Man, those were tough days. I figured Fleetwood Mac was washed up.

But then they came back & they BUSTED OUR ASS WIDE OPEN DAMNIT.

Remember when one of you guys said that was Bea Arthur in my sig? What the hell would I want Bea Frikkin Arthur in my sig for?! Get real, lozerz.

What did everyone have for dinner today? I had teriyaki chicken & roasted zucchini from the grill.

[DESTINYRU!ES]

Three words for both Lindsey and Steive: Get over yourself!

[Sarah]

I actually like the SYW Smile At You better than the demos. John's bass is so sick, it really makes the song stand out. Not at all like the demo, which was really just great because of her energy. The music's style on the demo was so Stevie solo generic.

That aside... why would Stevie let it get on the record if she thought Lindsey hacked it up? Her songs are her "children" she says.. and I really believe that she probably is exceptionally protective over them. She had to have liked the direction it went, otherwise it wouldn't be on the disc.

[blackroses]

Originally Posted by David

Huh? Searing? Remind me not to eat steak at your house, pal.

Yeah, Stevie always writes pretty good songs, & even in the old days when she wrote a bit of a clunker (like GATE & GARDEN), she could always put it over anyway with her singing.

She's a beautiful lady, my Stevie.

Yeah, that was an unpleasant, embarrassed time for all (except for Christine, who has such good poise under social pressure). Remember that press conference the four of them gave? Stevie no show, but the others were mostly sweating bullets & shifting frequently on their bums, from one cheek to the other & then back again, vibrating their legs violently under the table, as they tried to explain to the reporters why Lindsey wasn't IN Fleetwood Mac & whether Mick's book was a tasteful, elegant précis or a sleazy, crass potboiler.

Man, those were tough days. I figured Fleetwood Mac was washed up.

But then they came back & they BUSTED OUR ASS WIDE OPEN DAMNIT.

Remember when one of you guys said that was Bea Arthur in my sig? What the hell would I want Bea Frikkin Arthur in my sig for?! Get real, lozerz.

What did everyone have for dinner today? I had teriyaki chicken & roasted zucchini from the grill.

I've been gone for a while (computer problems), and I return to find this redundant, bickering thread. At some point early on while trying to read it my eyes glazed over. Your posts are the only ones here that I have actually enjoyed David. As for the topic, no comment. More than enough has already been said. Lordy!