A Ledgie wants to know: Economy Edition

[petep9000]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Schadenfreude is my middle name.

I thought that I was the only one who actually had that as a middle name. I know my mother says it's 'Vincent'...

But she's wrong.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

. . . Also, why would they want to give a mortgage someone cannot pay? That's financial suicide.

Look at the appreciation of property values over the last ten, and IMO really almost 15 years. That is the answer. They (the banks and IMO the buyers) were specualting on the rise of property values. Again, who cares if the mortgage goes bad if you (the bank or pwner) can always sell the house and walk away with money as many many people did.

Again, there are many people who lost their jobs, got sick, etc. and could not pay their mortgage. I am not talking about those people.

[DavidMn]

Well, as far as finances go mine are in a heap of S**T, but that's through my own bad decsions so I have no one but myself to blame for that. I work in a grocery store as a cashier so I talk to people every day about how much higher prices are, especially on eggs. I would say what I've seen go up more than anything are eggs and flour. Flour makes sense because wheat prices are going up exponentially it seems. I saw a thing on CNn about how pizza parlors are really struggling because the price of their flour for dough is going up faster than they ever thought it would and theyre afraid to pass on too much to customers.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

How is everyone weathering this economic *****storm? Business as usual? Cutting back? Better than ever? On the edge of financial ruin? A Ledgie wants to know!

I'm a mortgage broker, so I would say yes to all of the above including better than ever (mentally and physically).

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by DavidMn

Well, as far as finances go mine are in a heap of S**T, but that's through my own bad decsions so I have no one but myself to blame for that. I work in a grocery store as a cashier so I talk to people every day about how much higher prices are, especially on eggs. I would say what I've seen go up more than anything are eggs and flour. Flour makes sense because wheat prices are going up exponentially it seems. I saw a thing on CNn about how pizza parlors are really struggling because the price of their flour for dough is going up faster than they ever thought it would and theyre afraid to pass on too much to customers.

I saw a segment on CNN about the burgeoning corn-based ethanol industry. Although the proponents insist that it is the green alternative fuel source of the future, as it turns out, the processing/refinement of ethanol creates even more carbon than burning fossil fuels (since the ethanol plants burn tons and tons of coal). Additionally, the return on energy investment is pathetically small- barely dougle-digit percentages. But most significantly, the corn used to create ethanol is cutting into the supply being used for food, hence corn-based products are way up. Ask any Mexican about the price of tortillas!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Most people aren't too bright and they'll take a mortgage if someone gives it to them without realizing they can't pay it. Not that they aren't still responsible, they are. The banks are moreso though IMO since they are the experts and know with certainty what can be paid and what cannot. Also, why would they want to give a mortgage someone cannot pay? That's financial suicide.

Au contraire. On Wall Street, that's considered "revenue." Their balance sheets looked so good because they accounted for the full value of the (suicide) loans they made based on the assumption that they were going to be paid back in full. The banks didn't care whether or not the borrowers were actually going to pay back the loan; by the time any borrower could default, the loan would have already been collaterized into a "AAA" bond and resold to some greater fool at a hedge fund. The banks merely collected their huge commissions and moved on.

[petep9000]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I saw a segment on CNN about the burgeoning corn-based ethanol industry. Although the proponents insist that it is the green alternative fuel source of the future, as it turns out, the processing/refinement of ethanol creates even more carbon than burning fossil fuels (since the ethanol plants burn tons and tons of coal). Additionally, the return on energy investment is pathetically small- barely dougle-digit percentages. But most significantly, the corn used to create ethanol is cutting into the supply being used for food, hence corn-based products are way up. Ask any Mexican about the price of tortillas!

You may be right about this, though I thought that a book I read a few months back called The Omnivore's Dilemma actually said that the corn used to make stuff like ethanol, animal feeds, food additives and chemicals was a tasteless, starchy, not-particularly-delicious variety. I might be wrong, I'd need to check out that corn chapter again. We dont' even know the half of how here in the US, corn now reigns supreme. This is a contributing reason why we have obesity in such a way now here. Manufactured and packaged foods are loaded with high-fructose corn syrup and corn solids and corn, corn corn. Which of course, becomes sugar, sugar, sugar once we eat it.
The farmers in the heartlands are heavily subsidized to raise corn, or soy. Industrial plants for our post-industrial age.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Au contraire. On Wall Street, that's considered "revenue." Their balance sheets looked so good because they accounted for the full value of the (suicide) loans they made based on the assumption that they were going to be paid back in full. The banks didn't care whether or not the borrowers were actually going to pay back the loan; by the time any borrower could default, the loan would have already been collaterized into a "AAA" bond and resold to some greater fool at a hedge fund. The banks merely collected their huge commissions and moved on.

I believe GAAP counts that as an asset. Rev. is when the payments are actually paid. Note - assets are based/valued on projected rev. Finally, the vast majority of loans are being paid back. I get that the numbers for foreclosures ae high and that is an awful thing, but over 90% are being paid

Here is what I thought was a good explantion of AAA ratings

http://seekingalpha.com/article/6700...al-than-others

Here is another

http://www.bankstocks.com/article.asp?type=1&id=9881669

Finally the bond market has been the cause of most bad times.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by petep9000

You may be right about this, though I thought that a book I read a few months back called The Omnivore's Dilemma actually said that the corn used to make stuff like ethanol, animal feeds, food additives and chemicals was a tasteless, starchy, not-particularly-delicious variety. I might be wrong, I'd need to check out that corn chapter again. We dont' even know the half of how here in the US, corn now reigns supreme. This is a contributing reason why we have obesity in such a way now here. Manufactured and packaged foods are loaded with high-fructose corn syrup and corn solids and corn, corn corn. Which of course, becomes sugar, sugar, sugar once we eat it.
The farmers in the heartlands are heavily subsidized to raise corn, or soy. Industrial plants for our post-industrial age.

The Omnivore's Dilemma - I love that book and, mind you, I LOVE meat

Also, on HFCS:

http://www.hfcsfacts.com/?gclid=CMyj...FQ4ZHgod11j56g

http://www.westonaprice.org/motherlinda/cornsyrup.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/02/bu...y/02syrup.html

I suggest avoiding it at all possible costs if you can. Of course, that means no ketchup unless you bring your own because most places serve Heinz, no soda pop, etc. So, most people are not going to do this.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Of course, that means no ketchup unless you bring your own because most places serve Heinz, no soda pop, etc. So, most people are not going to do this.

I'm sure you can squeeze in a few packets of your own in your purse- amongst the packets of KY, condoms, chewing gum and lip gloss.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I'm sure you can squeeze in a few packets of your own in your purse- amongst the packets of KY, condoms, chewing gum and lip gloss.

Listen it is hard to find a clutch that can accomodate my needs.

Actually, I have been known to carry the individual Crystal Light lemonades out with me. Bars rarely have diet mixers.

[petep9000]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

[I]
Also, on HFCS:

http://www.hfcsfacts.com/?gclid=CMyj...FQ4ZHgod11j56g

http://www.westonaprice.org/motherlinda/cornsyrup.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/02/bu...y/02syrup.html

I breezed quick through that NY Times article. True, HFCS is nutritionally probably not any worse for you than cane sugar was. I think it is just the sheer volume of it now that is what is concerning. It's in so many products now, and of course, we have SO many more packaged products that we didn't have 30 years ago or even 10 years ago. A rush-rush culture, eating in a hurry etc and so we load up on quick things and these are loaded with corn stuff. And, the amount of physical activity is reduced too for many folks. Gee, I remember when I had to get off the sofa and walk to the TV to turn the dial. Puff puff wheeze. Whoo, that was a workout.

Then again, after reading Marion Nestle's What To Eat I'm not sure I trust any researchers. She's always finding their secret connections to the big industrial food corporations.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by petep9000

. . . True, HFCS is nutritionally probably not any worse for you than cane sugar was . . . .

LOL - My kin had huge sugar refineries in South Louisiana, which are still there to this day

In the end, cane sugar is not that bad for you - neither is HFCS. It is the quatities of both that we consume that make them so bad. And, it is so easy not to do so. Buy Stevia instead of sugar, equal, slenda, etc. Also, try green tea with Stevia - I'd say drink unsweetened tea, but that is just not Southern

As for what not to eat - the closer you can get to home grown veggies the better. Yes, almost anything will have the fertilizer and insecticides on and in them, but there is nothing you can do about that short of growing them yourself.

[petep9000]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

In the end, cane sugar is not that bad for you - neither is HFCS. It is the quatities of both that we consume that make them so bad. And, it is so easy not to do so. Buy Stevia instead of sugar, equal, slenda, etc. Also, try green tea with Stevia - I'd say drink unsweetened tea, but that is just not Southern

It can be done! Break the sugar/HFCS habit! I've been drinking coffee without sugar forever, years and years. It took about 2 days to get used to, same with hot tea. I need a bit of milk in both though.
Herbal tea, I just do 'em black. I like the natural flavors to come through and to soothe me...

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by petep9000

It can be done! Break the sugar/HFCS habit! I've been drinking coffee without sugar forever, years and years. It took about 2 days to get used to, same with hot tea. I need a bit of milk in both though.
Herbal tea, I just do 'em black. I like the natural flavors to come through and to soothe me...

To quote the little girl in the movie "Airplane," "I take my coffee black... like my men."