Lindsey and Mick: Shorn for the 1978 Tour

[danax6]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think Mick got him to be there. I think the arrangements were made via Mick.

Ok, but those are two different things. The arrangements could very well have been made via Mick, but that doesn't mean Mick was the reason he was there.

[michelej1]

Who do you think he was there for?

His appearance there indicated to me that he was not angry about the book that had only recently been released. He may have been hurt by it, but I do think his appearance was an act of rapprochement -- between him and Mick. And his body language with Mick, said the same thing to me. Lovely moments with Christine, who couldn't keep her hands off of him. Heartbreaking, but touching moment with John. His body language with Stevie said something quite different. That was devastating, touching and funny at the same time.

You know, based on Stevie's comments, I think she had hope that maybe the Clinton inauguration would lead to a band reunion, but after they got together for that, she saw that wouldn't happen. Well, just watching, I couldn't tell too much about their interactions in 1993, but 1990 was just raw and painful and on display for everyone to see. I did see the Los Angeles show actually. But I wasn't there the first BTM night, I only heard about it after the fact.

Michele

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think Mick's love for Peter and John surpasses his love for Lindsey, but I do think it's a very special relationship.

You're right, I think. Mick and John are like brothers and, to this day, Mick is still in awe of Peter.

Nonetheless, Mick and Lindsey are strangely connected. Mick's major MO is to keep the Mac running and touring for as long as he can. Lindsey's energies are far more self-directed, and he'd have said goodbye to the band for good--if he could. But something pulls him back. I think Lindsey NEEDS Mick's passion just as much as Mick needs Lindsey's brains and charisma. Moreover, both of them need one another commercially. They might enjoy solo and side projects, but they keep coming back to the Mac, that brand name that'll be guarantee at least a respectable amount of sales and, hence, give Mick some solvency and Lindsey a few more years of artistic freedom.

[David]

Originally Posted by michelej1

His appearance there indicated to me that he was not angry about the book that had only recently been released. He may have been hurt by it, but I do think his appearance was an act of rapprochement -- between him and Mick. And his body language with Mick, said the same thing to me. Lovely moments with Christine, who couldn't keep her hands off of him. Heartbreaking, but touching moment with John. His body language with Stevie said something quite different. That was devastating, touching and funny at the same time.

You know, based on Stevie's comments, I think she had hope that maybe the Clinton inauguration would lead to a band reunion, but after they got together for that, she saw that wouldn't happen. Well, just watching, I couldn't tell too much about their interactions in 1993, but 1990 was just raw and painful and on display for everyone to see. I did see the Los Angeles show actually. But I wasn't there the first BTM night, I only heard about it after the fact.

Now the show I saw was the Oakland Coliseum show. I'm sure the shows were mirror images of each other. Lindsey looked sorry he had made the decision to appear not more than two minutes after he appeared. Nicks was aloof & vacant during the acoustic number, paying no attention to him (not even musically--her vocal pauses & dips were heedless of his picking accompaniment, like two separate tracks that hadn't been synched). During Go Your Own Way, I squirmed again for Lindsey. He seemed like the guy with acne or bad jokes at the party, the one the other kids ignore. The whole thing was mind-boggling. The only remark he made about it, years later, was that it felt surreal to him because he saw all these people backstage he hadn't seen in decades, & they were all still there, doing the same thing they had always done when he was in the band.

The other bothersome thing about Oakland was that Fleetwood Mac was in such bad shape musically by that point (the two McVies being the exception, but those two introverts could always be damaged by their environment): no genuine or believable interaction, no spontaneity, no sexy danger, no nothing, really. The special guest may have wanted to create rock & roll magic that night, but you could see how rapidly disappointed he got before the first number he was a part of ended.

I do really believe the relationship between Lindsey & Mick, probably since about 1977, was a close one. My views on this were influenced by former Ledgie Les, with whom I discussed this at length several years ago. But I would further explain my view by emphasizing that it was a closeness primarily of musical exploration & integrity. Lindsey's friends -- at least those we've known in public -- have always seemed to share his aesthetics to some substantial degree, & have understood & shared his sonic world, whether it was Richard Dashut or Mick Fleetwood or John Stewart or Matthew Sweet or Rob Cavallo or Mark Needham or whoever. Lindsey & Mick have always had a lot in common musically; in fact, I'd say those two had more in common by far than either one did with any other member of the band (even in the case of Mick & John, who share only a fondness for blues & blues-rock, developed in their late teens). Moreover, they're both the most musically far-reaching & adventurous members. No need to review Lindsey's musical eclecticism because we all know it, but think again about Mick's career: the blues of his early years with Fleetwood Mac, the West African music of "The Visitor," the various styles from early Beach Boys to Peter Green to pop to bone-crunching guitar rock on the other solo albums, the enterprise stuff he's done with different types of drum, percussion & recording equipment, &c. He's a lot like Lindsey in many respects, even though we don't really think of him that way. He tries things musically that the McVies & Nicks would consider silly or crazy or ugly: think of his two experimental forays into songwriting -- Lizard People & These Strange Times -- which combine tape loops, mysterious refrains, & Mick's own brand of I guess what we could call sprechstimme. Lindsey, if he has heard those tracks, probably really digs them.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Who do you think he was there for?

Not for anyone in particular, I think he was there for himself. Yes, to maybe make amends. You and I both know he didn't leave because he didn't love the band anymore. That never went away, obviously. But I don't think he was specifically there because Mick invited him and wanted to make things right again.

Like David said, he seemed to really regret it.

Debbie, who also posts here and who is from The Netherlands as well, spoke with Lindsey in 1992 when he was here doing promo for OOTC. She brought up his appearances at those two shows and he seemed really sad about it. He said that he had brought some of his family, and had hoped it to be kind of a fun gathering, but Stevie was so out of it, she didn't even seem to realize what was going on. He said the entire thing was very awkward and that he was worried about her. Maybe if Debbie reads this she can elaborate.

[strandinthewind]

I think La Nicks was out of it - and sadly so. I also think LB went because he missed them and, and I know this is not a popular opinion, his career was no where and FM, while far from the popularity of the Tusk era, was still sellling major houses. Also, I think he wanted to see Stevie and was bitterly disappointed.

But, here is a 1990 BTM performance where she is coherent and they have some sweet interaction, esp. her intro that she hoped that maybe someday that he would find it in his heart to spend some time with her - to me, that was heartbreaking and palpable in emotion.

[danax6]

I have a clip of the first night as well, and there wasn't anything like that going on. I think that is what Lindsey was referring to when he said she didn't seem to realize what was happening. She was just going through the motions.

That second night was heartbreaking. She can't seem to let go of him when they're walking off the stage.

[strandinthewind]

Will you post the vid. of that. I have seen it, but not for awhile. And, I did not see it on youtube.

Interestingly, I believe that while Landslide was essentially the same at the BTM and Dance concerts (save for the Klonopin haze and wieght gain) -- "their" performance in SS truly expressed all the rage and love (thin line ya know) pent up since I reckon 1982.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Will you post the vid. of that. I have seen it, but not for awhile. And, I did not see it on youtube.

I'm at work, but I will upload it for you tonight.

[strandinthewind]

Thank You~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by danax6

Not for anyone in particular, I think he was there for himself. Yes, to maybe make amends.

Yes, I don't think he was there for any one person. I think he was there for the band as a whole. I imagine they reached out to him over Greg and he reached back.

Strandinthewind, if he had wanted to come back in 1990 they would have taken him back. When Stevie said that they were all hoping and praying he would return, I think she spoke the truth. If he had wanted to rejoin the band for 1991 to springboard preparations for OOTC, they would have let him do just that in a heartbeat - or heartbreak. So, whatever he was hoping for for his dormant career, he chose not to use FM to revitalize it, when he easily could have.

David, from what I've seen of the first night, Stevie was trying with Lindsey. She tried to walk with him during GYOW, but then his microphone got stuck. Then, she tried to hug him at the end and while he let Christine fondle him to her heart's content, he pretty much stilled Stevie's hands, with his own and cut that embrace short. I think they both thought they had gotten the cold shoulder from the other. I thought the songs with Billy and Rick though went kind of nicely. Landslide, "need I say more," awkward, but so powerful.

The next night, Stevie said that touching thing during Landslide, but then she proceeded to ruin GYOW by distracting the audience during the song, cuddling children and creating a spectacle. It was one of those upstage tactics that worked fine when they were in the band together (because Lindsey did it to her too), but was a knife in the back when he was there as a "guest." However, if she hadn't perceived him as cold to her the night before, she might not have done it. Also, the speech Stevie did for Greenpeace (or whatever) did not make things any less artificial up there.

First night the thing where Lindsey thinks John doesn't want to shake his hand and then John reaches out, boy, goose bumps.

Overall, those BTM nights, seeing one on tape and one in person, I felt all kinds of tension and . . . I was never thinking that the band had lost whatever kind of magic and chemistry they had once had and that they no longer belonged together. I was thinking that the reasons Lindsey left in the first place still remained and that fate was doing a disservice to me (most especially), the world (coincidentally) and the band by allowing the obstacles that keeping these five people apart from persisting. I didn't know that Stevie was on Klonopin. I probably thought it was still cocaine. But, whatever, I knew that she was high and I felt that if she could be more "normal" that things would be different. I thought that I was witnessing a chance at reconnection and seeing them miss that train, right before my eyes. It's like being there when they reached in a fork in the road and went down the wrong path.

Mick and Lindsey? Well, Mick is the person who would spend all night in the studio with Lindsey, concocting inspired drum licks that they would never be able to recreate, exploring African beats and experimenting. I think they have an affinity towards each other that transcends all the soap opera activities, which is why Mick is the one person Lindsey never stays mad at.

And yes, I think Lindsey has got to appreciate Mick's ability to think outside of the box. . In fact, it's because he knows Mick can that he feels most betrayed by him (more than the other band members) when Mick can't and won't and chooses the commercial route instead. He thinks that Mick has led him on. Lindsey likes knowing that Mick can pull a marching band idea for Tusk out of thin air. He admires that. He probably even gives him a nod for Mrs. Scarrot's thoughts.

Michele

[The Catdancer]

Originally Posted by danax6

Not for anyone in particular, I think he was there for himself. Yes, to maybe make amends. You and I both know he didn't leave because he didn't love the band anymore. That never went away, obviously. But I don't think he was specifically there because Mick invited him and wanted to make things right again.

Like David said, he seemed to really regret it.

Debbie, who also posts here and who is from The Netherlands as well, spoke with Lindsey in 1992 when he was here doing promo for OOTC. She brought up his appearances at those two shows and he seemed really sad about it. He said that he had brought some of his family, and had hoped it to be kind of a fun gathering, but Stevie was so out of it, she didn't even seem to realize what was going on. He said the entire thing was very awkward and that he was worried about her. Maybe if Debbie reads this she can elaborate.

Yes, that's about it. He said that especially his sister in-law (I believe her name is Eileen, Aileen) was looking forward to see Stevie again because they used to be so close. But when Stevie came in she was held up by a couple of guys complaining that she wanted to go home (as Lindsey put it "she was like 'wtf am I doing here? I wanna go home. Who are all these people?" looking at LB's family....). He said she was in very bad shape and he was really worried about her. Needless to say his family was really disappointed.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by michelej1

The next night, Stevie said that touching thing during Landslide, but then she proceeded to ruin GYOW by distracting the audience during the song, cuddling children and creating a spectacle.

See, my copy is missing Go Your Own Way. I though the forced Greenpeace talk at the end was already bad, but this takes the cake.

[David]

You guys make sure you're not confusing the video footage from those nights. There was some confusion awhile back about the 6th vs. the 7th. Maureen initially labeled one of her pro-shot videos wrongly. That was sometimes her m.o.

Now, the Greenpeace thing was all year on tour. The band told us to send money to Greenpeace way back in June at Cal Expo & Mountain View.

[michelej1]

David,

The second night is the incomplete one, so I don't think the videos are mislabeled. I have never seen the whole Los Angeles show on tape, but we do have the Landslide from the last night (Los Angeles).

So, you don't think that happened the night that you saw it? You know how Lindsey crosses over to the other side of the stage, when he finishes the GYOW lyrics? Stevie started to walk with him, but his microphone was too short and he couldn't.

Actually, I thought of that BTM night when Lindsey showed up for AHI. Stevie introduces him by saying, "what can I say . . . can I say it yet?" Then, she walks across the stage and goes and gets him and I think she is kind of handling his microphone too. It made me wonder if she remembered the fiasco of his BTM appearance. Then, after they sing, Waddy and Lindsey walk off stage with their arms around each other. Why is it I thought that was very sweet when Waddy did it, whereas, at the end when Sheryl Crow put her arm around Lindsey I was wondering what her problem was!

Vanessa, Stevie was basically doing her Edge Walk during GYOW, but she didn't just shake hands, she actually picked up children. I'm not saying she's worse than Lindsey, because I saw him deliberately standing in her GDW silhouette one night during The Dance. Furthermore, he and Chris were obviously distracting her during Stand Back the entire tour. So, he bothers her too, but he was a guest that night at the BTM show and it wasn't pretty. Michele