My dog has epilepsy.

Lee · #1 11-24-2007, 06:06 PM

Yeah, I found out this morning after he had two grand mal seizures right in a row. I panicked because I had never seen this before & starting crying; probably didn't do him any good or me either, but I didn't know what to do. He's a four year old toy poodle named Bogart, & he had just starting having seizures in June, but only in the tub when he was at the groomers getting groomed. I thought maybe they did something so I switched groomers & the new groomer said that he only had them in the tub, so I didn't think it was epilepsy & neither did his vet. And I thought his seizures were stopping as the groomer said the last time he was there in October, he did not have a seizure. So this morning after a little playtime when he got up, & when I was making breakfast, my husband said something was wrong with him & this was when he was having seizures. I couldn't reach his regular vet, so I took him to another one. He did a blood test to eliminate other things; there is no test for epilepsy. So he found nothing else & thinking it's probably epilepsy, he put him on phenobarbital. And he says this might not stop the seizures. I hope it does because I don't want to see Bogart go through this again. I felt so helpless; I didn't know what to do. So if anyone has an animal with this, I could really use some advise on this.

Lee

Steviefan49 · #2 11-24-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Yeah, I found out this morning after he had two grand mal seizures right in a row. I panicked because I had never seen this before & starting crying; probably didn't do him any good or me either, but I didn't know what to do. He's a four year old toy poodle named Bogart, & he had just starting having seizures in June, but only in the tub when he was at the groomers getting groomed. I thought maybe they did something so I switched groomers & the new groomer said that he only had them in the tub, so I didn't think it was epilepsy & neither did his vet. And I thought his seizures were stopping as the groomer said the last time he was there in October, he did not have a seizure. So this morning after a little playtime when he got up, & when I was making breakfast, my husband said something was wrong with him & this was when he was having seizures. I couldn't reach his regular vet, so I took him to another one. He did a blood test to eliminate other things; there is no test for epilepsy. So he found nothing else & thinking it's probably epilepsy, he put him on phenobarbital. And he says this might not stop the seizures. I hope it does because I don't want to see Bogart go through this again. I felt so helpless; I didn't know what to do. So if anyone has an animal with this, I could really use some advise on this.

Lee

Hi Lee,

I had a poodle mix who lived to be about 13 years old. He started having seizures, and we didn't know what it was, and after taking Poncho to the vet SEVERAL times for this, and we couldn't diagnose anything, come to find out when he was dying on us, that he had a huge grapefruit sized tumor in his liver.. PLEASE have your dog checked for this, and a MRI on him to check for tumors.. as I SOOO wish they would have found this at the beginning.. I SOOO miss my little guy to this day, and still can't believe, as much as we pay the vets.. that they couldn't find this! I hope you get to the bottom of yours.. and I'm SOOOO going to send up some BIG prayers for your sweet baby.

Hugs,

Arlene

buckymcnix · #3 11-24-2007, 07:12 PM

aww lee - my heart goes out to you.

we had a border collie/blue healer combo that started having seizures at about ten years old. like steviefan49, it was a tumor. yours seems so young but i, too, would suggest checking for that.

there are a couple folks on here who are pretty versed vet-wise, so hopefully they will see this and also offer you some suggestions.

hope bogart pulls through ok

Chrislit18 · #4 11-24-2007, 07:25 PM

aww. im sorry to hear that about your dog Lee

I hate seeing animals suffer, and i really do hope that the medication helps.

hope that your situation improves, and that he gets better.

Miss Vicky · #5 11-24-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steviefan49

...come to find out when he was dying on us, that he had a huge grapefruit sized tumor in his liver.. still can't believe, as much as we pay the vets.. that they couldn't find this!

While those in the veterinary field make every effort to properly diagnose people's pets, do keep in mind that there is a limit to what medicine can do. Most veterinarians run small, general practices and lack the funds, training, and certification to have and use an MRI machine. Many don't even have ultrasound equipment. For more sophisticated diagnostics such as these, you'd need to be referred either to a specialist or to a University. As for your comment about how much you pay veterinarians, I suspect that you haven't the slightest idea what it costs to run a veterinary practice.

Simple blood tests can often rule out many cancers as the cancer cells will cause certain blood values to come out of normal range. If these values were tested and came back normal, there may not have been any reason to suspect cancer. Epilepsy in people is diagnosed with a series of invasive, and often painful procedures (such as spinal taps) that are either not available to veterinary medicine or are too costly for the average pet owner to afford. In any case, true epilepsy is probably more common in dogs than are tumors of the liver and there may well have been more reason to suspect epliepsy than any other cause of the seizure activity. It should also be noted, that sometimes veterinarians will prescribe certain medications both to treat the suspected cause and to help rule out certain other possibilities. If the phenobarbital controls the seizures, than it's most likely epilepsy. If it doesn't, it's time to search for another cause.

Epileptic dogs, like epileptic people, can live normal lives with the right treatment. Phenobarbital is the most often used medication and is usually effective (and is reasonably inexpensive). However, it is imperative that you have your dogs blood levels checked AT LEAST once every six months to ensure that the phenobarbital is at the proper dosage for your dog. Some dogs, however, have more severe cases and may need supplementation with potassium bromide (in addition to the phenobarbital).

reebokandlace · #6 11-25-2007, 10:54 AM

Sorry to hear about your dog. How scary for you (and your dog).

kathy1 · #7 11-25-2007, 11:31 AM

i am sorry to hear about your dog. i hope everything turns out ok.

Betsy · #8 11-25-2007, 11:46 AM

My little dog Shelbie started having seizures when she was 15. She was an old dog but very tiny...smaller than a cat.

It is a terrible thing to watch. I wish I could help you. Keep us informed -- we are all concerned for you.

Steviefan49 · #9 11-25-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

While those in the veterinary field make every effort to properly diagnose people's pets, do keep in mind that there is a limit to what medicine can do. Most veterinarians run small, general practices and lack the funds, training, and certification to have and use an MRI machine. Many don't even have ultrasound equipment. For more sophisticated diagnostics such as these, you'd need to be referred either to a specialist or to a University. As for your comment about how much you pay veterinarians, I suspect that you haven't the slightest idea what it costs to run a veterinary practice.

Simple blood tests can often rule out many cancers as the cancer cells will cause certain blood values to come out of normal range. If these values were tested and came back normal, there may not have been any reason to suspect cancer. Epilepsy in people is diagnosed with a series of invasive, and often painful procedures (such as spinal taps) that are either not available to veterinary medicine or are too costly for the average pet owner to afford. In any case, true epilepsy is probably more common in dogs than are tumors of the liver and there may well have been more reason to suspect epliepsy than any other cause of the seizure activity. It should also be noted, that sometimes veterinarians will prescribe certain medications both to treat the suspected cause and to help rule out certain other possibilities. If the phenobarbital controls the seizures, than it's most likely epilepsy. If it doesn't, it's time to search for another cause.

Epileptic dogs, like epileptic people, can live normal lives with the right treatment. Phenobarbital is the most often used medication and is usually effective (and is reasonably inexpensive). However, it is imperative that you have your dogs blood levels checked AT LEAST once every six months to ensure that the phenobarbital is at the proper dosage for your dog. Some dogs, however, have more severe cases and may need supplementation with potassium bromide (in addition to the phenobarbital).

Hey Vicky,

Actually, the vet I took Poncho to had MANY MRI machines, and was one of the State's best veterinary clinics around! It has been there MANY years, and the vets all came from Texas A & M, which is one of the BEST Veterinary Colleges in the NATION! They did all kinds of bloodworks on my dog, and came up with nothing! In fact, I took my dog the first week of January for his annual "check up" and shots, and he was giving a "PERFECT" bill of health! The very next week this happened! What you say does have some validity to it, however in this case - it doesn't apply! If I just took my dog to some "clinic" - I would say yes! However, he went to the best, whereas they did have the training, certifications and all, as well as all of the latest equipment, INCLUDING MRI machines!!!

As far as my comments on "How much we DO pay the vets"- Yes, I DO know how much it costs to run a veterinary practice! I've been here for MANY years, and as I said before, the vet that we went to, was not only a personal friend of ours, as we've taken MANY of our dogs there, while I was growing up, but also my dog, who I got later on. We go back MANY years with our friend, and yes, he's spoken about how much it costs to run his operation! I appreciate your input however...

Hugs,

Arlene

Miss Vicky · #10 11-25-2007, 04:45 PM

^Again, there may not have been anything in the blood test results that would lead to any suspicion of cancer. Obviously, I wasn't there, I didn't see your dog, didn't see the results, but I highly doubt that if there was any suspicion - and if, as you say, your vet has all the proper diagnostics availabile - that he or she would neglect to do, or at least suggest, further testing.

Steviefan49 · #11 11-25-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

^Again, there may not have been anything in the blood test results that would lead to any suspicion of cancer. Obviously, I wasn't there, I didn't see your dog, didn't see the results, but I highly doubt that if there was any suspicion - and if, as you say, your vet has all the proper diagnostics availabile - that he or she would neglect to do, or at least suggest, further testing.

Well, believe it or not, after ME suggesting to my vet about all of his seizures he was having, and all of the symptoms, he didn't seem to do anything other than bloodworks, and you are right... evidently it just didn't seem to show up- which I couldn't believe, since he'd had it since like November. That was the month the seizures started, and he passed away in January, and just went for his shots and annual check up the week before. It's just sort of sad, with all of his experience and knowledge that he didn't even think to do any further testing at all, nor suggest it.. and as I said, it used to cost me 100$ just to walk in the door, that wasn't with anything added. If he got shots, and/ or meds, that was additional! My hopes are, that Lee finds out what's going on with her baby- and maybe can suggest to her doc to do the MRI for tumors.. and MAYBE her vet will listen! LOL

saintbernard · #12 11-26-2007, 05:27 AM

Lee,

I'm really sorry to hear about your dog.

I have a male Saint Bernard that has a problem with Grand Mal seizures.

I used to have a Flat-Coated Retriever that was my baby. I'd raised him from a puppy and he lived 16 long and wonderful years. He died on Monday, May 10th and Max had his first seizure that following Saturday a little after one in the morning. I was still grieving from the loss of my Flat-Coat and I, like you, had never seen a dog have a seizure. I was completely devastated and thought I was losing my other boy too.

Over the course of the next few weeks my vet did a whole barrage of tests on him to try and pinpoint the cause of his seizures. To this day we still don't know exactly what causes them.

Before putting him on medication we tried numerous things to help him; everything from changing his environment in case he was coming in contact with something that made him sick to changing his diet in the event his seizures were brought on by something he was eating. Still, nothing stopped the seizures. He got to the point to where he was having as many as 5-6 seizures a week and there were some days when he'd have 2-3 or more seizures in one day.

My vet started him on Phenobarbital at first to see how things went. He responded well to it but the seizure problem still wasn't as controlled as either of us wanted it to be. We added Potassium Bromide to the mixture and things have been much better.

He isn't 100% seizure free but he does have them a lot less often and they aren't nearly as severe. The last seizure he had was two weeks ago tomorrow. The seizure itself lasted less than 15 seconds and his "resting" period just a few minutes. He got up and "walked it off" with very little disorientation. For the first 9 months he was taking the Phenobarb/Bromide he didn't have a single seizure.

While we would both love for him to be completely seizure free, my vet and I are pleased with the results we've had thus far.

I haven't noticed him having many side effects of the Phenobarb. He does have a few from the Bromide, however. It will occasionally make him sick at his stomach and his appetite has increased drastically but certainly nothing severe enough to worry over.

It's true that the medication isn't a magic bullet that will stop the seizures in their tracks for every dog, but it can help. I know of a woman who has a dog that was having as many as 26 Grand Mal's a day that has now been seizure free for almost 4 years thanks to a combination of medications. It can and does work with the right dosage and, perhaps combination of drugs.

I highly recommend that you start a "seizure diary". I keep one myself. I make daily notes about what he has eaten (including treats), what sort of activities he's been into and what he has come in contact with that he doesn't normally come in contact with on a daily basis. I also make detailed notes of every seizure he has. I note the time it started, how long it lasted, when it ends, how long he "rests" (lays still before trying to get up), what he does during the seizure (paddles, vocalizes, loses control of bladder or bowels, drools, gnashes teeth, etc.), what time he starts to get up and what he does during his "walking off" period (if he seems disoriented or confused, if he is easily frightened, etc.) and how long the "walking off" period lasts.

I know it sounds like a lot of work but you'll be amazed how much you can learn just by keeping all those notes then going back over them again and again to check for any possible causes or triggers for his seizures.

I'm sure you've been doing a lot of research and you know by now that there is a wealth of information out there and it can be pretty confusing. After a while it will get to where you know the signs of an impending seizure. They are never easy to watch but by researching and getting to know as much as you can and doing your best to prepare yourself you can make them a little easier for both you and your dog to go through.

When Maxie first started having his seizures I asked just about everyone I could think of for advice. I am on a mailing list for the Saint Bernard Club of America and I turned to them first hoping I would get some good advice from people who had been there. The first thing they told me: put him down, if he has one he will have more and the best thing you can do for him is put him out of his misery. Very few gave me helpful advice and suggestions to help save my boy.

Well, that was almost 3 years ago. I didn't kill my dog just because he was sick. With medication and me being perhaps a little over-protective of him he's an otherwise healthy, happy, feisty, trouble-finding five year old. Taking care of a seizure dog is hard work and can get expensive but it's worth it. I wouldn't trade the last 3 years I've had with Max for anything.

I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope the medication works as nicely for your canine kid as it did for mine.

Jennifer

tuigirl · #13 11-26-2007, 12:29 PM

oh dear, sorry to hear this, as our lovely dog had epilepsy as well towards the end of her life (she was a collie)..she was about 13 when she got them so there wasn't a great deal we could do for her really and we had to make a decision in the end (well she actually made the choice for us to be honest)...however, having said that...to be a bit more cheerful, our nephews dog (a Breton basset) had epilepsy when he was quite young and he responded very well to medicine and lived to a ripe old age of 14, so as yours is so young too, I'm hoping it will work well for him.

Stay strong and as positive as you can.

Lee · #14 11-27-2007, 12:57 PM

Thanks everyone for your advice & kind thoughts.

So far Bogart hasn’t had another seizure, but he is going to the groomer this Saturday. I’m hoping the medicine will work. The vet did do a blood test & said that he didn’t see anything wrong with his liver or kidneys & looked him over completely. So he is assuming that it is epilepsy.

What seems to trigger the seizures is great stress or excitement. Now I’m seeing things in him that I’m wondering is part of this epilepsy. Sometimes he’ll just sit in the middle of the living room floor looking like he’s lost. I call it “zoning out”. He’s there but he’s not there. Also once, I left him gated in the kitchen while I went shopping with my mom during the day (took a vacation day from work). I do usually live him during the day gated in the kitchen when I’m at work & let him out at lunchtime. He’s fine; he doesn’t go to the bathroom in the kitchen at all, but this time when I had gone shopping, I came home & he looked terrible. Here he was wet; he had urined on himself & had urine on the floor. I don’t care; it cleans up quite easily, but he was all upset. He kept crying & crying. I took him out, cleaned him up & told him that everything was OK. He may have had a seizure that day. After his seizure this past Saturday, he was crying & crying. I thought he was hurting & then I read that sometimes dogs go blind after a seizure & I’ll bet this happened to him, & he couldn’t see me temporarily. I picked him up, & held him a minute trying to calm him & put him down near his water since he had thrown up & he drank some water & then he was fine. Of course, I was the wreck.

I can’t imagine anyone telling me to put him down, to put him out of his misery. He is the best poodle I’ve ever had & I’ve had a few. He doesn’t have a mean bone in his body, always full of energy, always wanting to play even though he is four years old. In fact, I’ve tried to tone the playing down as I’m afraid he might have a seizure. He loves everyone, especially kids & other dogs. He loves to be the center of attention. If you don’t notice him, he’ll bark at you until you do.

I’ve been reading up on canine epilepsy so if he has another seizure, I’ll know how to react & won’t panic. And I’m hoping that he’ll live a long, happy life.

Lee