Please Die Fighting for My Rights

[LiamMcConville]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

The question asking her if she didnt believe in Christ was in reference to her saying "I dont believe in the JC and Dog Pony show" which made me think she didnt believe Christ existed at all...had nothing to do with the CS lewis thing.

I dont know why I'm being made out to be the villain. You're saying I would think less of you all. If you knew me at all, you'd know thats furthest from the truth.

And...No, you would be banned for being a personal slanderer. Has nothing to do with your personal belief. I never said anything about you personally. Actually now because you choose to stay bent on it, I hope you're booted with the knowledge that you simply couldnt follow the FAQ rules.

I understand that, and the way you responded made me think that either one can believe Jesus is God's son, or just not believe in him at all, which warranted my first post.

I'm not making you out to be the villain at all. Christian's just usually have a way of judging everyone who doesn't follow their beliefs strictly.

I'd only hope I wouldn't be banned for saying you're a naive Christian, when that's not nearly as bad as other things said about you in this thread. At least what I said is shown to be true by your posts. So, I should be banned for saying...****ing?

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

I understand that, and the way you responded made me think that either one can believe Jesus is God's son, or just not believe in him at all, which warranted my first post.

I'm not making you out to be the villain at all. Christian's just usually have a way of judging everyone who doesn't follow their beliefs strictly.

I'd only hope I wouldn't be banned for saying you're a naive Christian, when that's not nearly as bad as other things said about you in this thread. At least what I said is shown to be true by your posts. So, I should be banned for saying...****ing?

I havent judged ANYONE here during the course of the evening. I havent told one person...Youre going to hell....or, Youre wrong! ....or anything remotely of the sort. I dont even presume to think that about anyone. I've merely sparked topics that I believe to be true, in order to get others to respond in kind. Carrie has yet to tell me WHY she believes what she does. That was the goal. To hear why.

I'd say naive Christian was a personal attack, but i was referring more to the "****ing idiot" in reference to your first post about what you thought was me saying you had to believe Jesus was/is Christ. You have clearly said above you were mistaken there. So what you called me is unwarranted.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Carrie has yet to tell me WHY she believes what she does. That was the goal. To hear why.

i don't feel the need to explain why i hold my beliefs. i've stated them, i've clarified them, but i don't care to justify them. why do you need to know why?

[LiamMcConville]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I havent judged ANYONE here during the course of the evening. I havent told one person...Youre going to hell....or, Youre wrong! ....or anything remotely of the sort. I dont even presume to think that about anyone. I've merely sparked topics that I believe to be true, in order to get others to respond in kind. Carrie has yet to tell me WHY she believes what she does. That was the goal. To hear why.

I'd say naive Christian was a personal attack, but i was referring more to the "****ing idiot" in reference to your first post about what you thought was me saying you had to believe Jesus was/is Christ. You have clearly said above you were mistaken there. So what you called me is unwarranted.

I disagree. I feel by constantly telling us that we're baseless for not believing what you believe is absolutely judging us. Carrie has explained to you several times why she believes what she does, or are you looking for some deep dark reason, like she was molested and now cannot possibly believe there is a god? Is that the kind of explanation you're looking for?

Oh, I see. I'm sorry for asking you if you're a complete ****ing idiot. I was mistaken, but the specific post I commented on is only one of the many posts you've made that would classify you as a naive Christian. But to be honest, I think I find all Christians to be naive. I guess that's what comes with being an opinionated agnostic.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i don't feel the need to explain why i hold my beliefs. i've stated them, i've clarified them, but i don't care to justify them. why do you need to know why?

Well...the whole afternoon we've spent arguing, quipping...and i got a lot of answers just not a lot of explanation. I thought thats where the thread would naturally progress. Liam seems to think as this thread goes on I continue to think "less" of all of you, and thats simply not true. That is not my motive, and never has been.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

I disagree. I feel by constantly telling us that we're baseless for not believing what you believe is absolutely judging us. Carrie has explained to you several times why she believes what she does, or are you looking for some deep dark reason, like she was molested and now cannot possibly believe there is a god? Is that the kind of explanation you're looking for?

Oh, I see. I'm sorry for asking you if you're a complete ****ing idiot. I was mistaken, but the specific post I commented on is only one of the many posts you've made that would classify you as a naive Christian. But to be honest, I think I find all Christians to be naive. I guess that's what comes with being an opinionated agnostic.

The "baseless" comment was directed at one person's comment, and you are taking it slightly out of context (as self proclaimed opinionated agnostics are wont to do). The baseless comment I made was never countered with any sort of validity other than just "personal opinion." Carrie has now made that plain, and thats perfectly acceptable.

I have apoligzed for stepping on toes more than once in this thread (which adults do), when I did not intend to.

If I am a naive Christian then you could possibly be labeled, in my eyes, as a naive agnostic, no? I've backed my own beliefs fairly well I believe, based on the questions that were hurled back my way. I cant say the same for you.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Well...the whole afternoon we've spent arguing, quipping...and i got a lot of answers just not a lot of explanation. I thought thats where the thread would naturally progress. Liam seems to think as this thread goes on I continue to think "less" of all of you, and thats simply not true. That is not my motive, and never has been.

my life experiences have shaped my beliefs, and i'm sure yours have too. what else is there to say?

[LiamMcConville]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

The "baseless" comment was directed at one person's comment, and you are taking it slightly out of context (as self proclaimed opinionated agnostics are wont to do). The baseless comment I made was never countered with any sort of validity other than just "personal opinion." Carrie has now made that plain, and thats perfectly acceptable.

I have apologized for stepping on toes more than once in this thread (which adults do), when I did not intend to.

If I am a naive Christian then you could possibly be labeled, in my eyes, as a naive agnostic, no? I've backed my own beliefs fairly well I believe, based on the questions that were hurled back my way. I cant say the same for you.

I don't think I've taken it out of context, you used it towards some one's personal opinion that happens to be very similar to mine. I'm glad you are now content with Carrie's answer.

I'll apologize when I see fit, so far, nothing I've said deserves an apology.

I don't think an Agnostic can be labeled naive, because agnostics believe their is no way to possibly know if their is a God. Which is a much more accepting view of religion than the Christian.

I haven't backed my beliefs? If you have ANY questions for me, please feel absolutely free to ask. I'd be happy to oblige.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

I don't think I've taken it out of context, you used it towards some one's personal opinion that happens to be very similar to mine. I'm glad you are now content with Carrie's answer.

I'll apologize when I see fit, so far, nothing I've said deserves an apology.

I don't think an Agnostic can be labeled naive, because agnostics believe their is no way to possibly know if their is a God. Which is a much more accepting view of religion than the Christian.

I haven't backed my beliefs? If you have ANY questions for me, please feel absolutely free to ask. I'd be happy to oblige.

You DID take it out of context. The baseless comment was directed towards Carrie alone. So dont use that as an "us" offensive. You've evidently taken it as a personal attack against you, which is probably why you've said the ugly things you've said to me in the past two hours.

You called me a ****ing idiot when it was you who misunderstood...you dont owe me an apology? Indeed.

How is believing that there is no possible way to know there is a God any more acceptible or "sensible" than the Christian view? Ultimately, as was pointed out by another Ledgie...neither one has more facts to support one over the other. I could go to say the Bible, and the Koran, and other holy books are "my" proof of a deity...but you would just go to say you believe those books to be falsities.

This conversation is gonna go round in circles with you, since you seem content to just merely point out proposed faults. Once again, I never said anyone was "wrong" in their beliefs. This whole night has been a line of valid questioning that no one had to participate in if they didnt want to.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by carrie721

my life experiences have shaped my beliefs, and i'm sure yours have too. what else is there to say?

that a good point. I'm glad you brought that up. Did your life experiences lead you to no longer believe in God when you previously did? You dont have to answer that. But i usually find that is the case.

I personally went to church un-regularly, when I was a kid. I stopped as a teenager because I was betrayed by those in positions of ministry. It caused the divorce of my parents, and other things that made me to be bitter towards Christianity for a few years. But I later found that my faith in God wasnt what should have been shaken, but in men who shouldnt have been put on the pedestal of my heart. If that makes any sense to you.

But if you truly believe in your heart that you were taught lies, that the Gospels (or any other faith that might suit you) then I suppose nothing else can be said.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by takenbythesky

Hmm. Hoping Liam's banned after that tame exchange hardly demonstrates Christian forgiveness on your part.

i have apologized NUMEROUS times tonight during the course of this post to those that I unintenionally offended. I'm not pissed off at Liam, but he neither apologized for his remarks and continued to make them...and I wont be sorry to see him banned if that is his fate. Doesnt mean I'm not forgiving. I dont see anyone coming to his rescue very quickly...its blatantly obvious he broke the FAQ when I gave him more than once chance to retract what he said.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

that a good point. I'm glad you brought that up. Did your life experiences lead you to no longer believe in God when you previously did? You dont have to answer that. But i usually find that is the case.

i'm not an atheist, yo! i didn't abandon a belief in god. i didn't have a trauma that shook my beliefs, which is what i think you're getting at. that just wasn't the case.

I personally went to church un-regularly, when I was a kid. I stopped as a teenager because I was betrayed by those in positions of ministry. It caused the divorce of my parents, and other things that made me to be bitter towards Christianity for a few years. But I later found that my faith in God wasnt what should have been shaken, but in men who shouldnt have been put on the pedestal of my heart. If that makes any sense to you.

But if you truly believe in your heart that you were taught lies, that the Gospels (or any other faith that might suit you) then I suppose nothing else can be said.

i don't think i was taught lies ... not in a malicious way anyway. i just view christianity as mythology, next to greek & roman mythology and all other religions.

[LiamMcConville]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

i have apologized NUMEROUS times tonight during the course of this post to those that I unintenionally offended. I'm not pissed off at Liam, but he neither apologized for his remarks and continued to make them...and I wont be sorry to see him banned if that is his fate. Doesnt mean I'm not forgiving. I dont see anyone coming to his rescue very quickly...its blatantly obvious he broke the FAQ when I gave him more than once chance to retract what he said.

Alright, I'm sorry I called you a ****ing idiot. But I still absolutely think you're a naive Christian.

I'm amazed that people within the church ****ed you over, and you still have this incredible faith.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I havent judged ANYONE here during the course of the evening. I havent told one person...Youre going to hell....or, Youre wrong! ....or anything remotely of the sort. I dont even presume to think that about anyone.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

That was a personal low blow. As far as I'm concerned i didnt insult anyone on a personal level with this thread. F*ck you Tower. Literally.

If you think that me stating that you ****ed around with men after you already told half the world is somehow an "insult on a personal level" you are even more ****ed up than I originally thought.

If two guys want to get it on, I am all for it and have no problems whatsoever with it. If you've got internalized homophobic guilt- then deal with it- that ain't my bag.

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

The personal attacks continue. I suggest you edit your post, sir.

Take yer own advice.

Originally Posted by mikeschmike

waThe Way I See It
By M. Schmike

If this were a divergent multiverse, you and I would be married and happily conjugating in some remote cabin on Bainbridge Island.

Originally Posted by carrie721

i cannot wait to "get married" in chicago. like, seriously. "carrie schmike" ... it has a nice ring to it

I was going to say "Step off, dyke" - but then I remembered that (ironically) no one around here has a sense off humor....

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I was going to say "Step off, dyke" - but then I remembered that (ironically) no one around here has a sense off humor....

such language!