Please Die Fighting for My Rights

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by carrie721

or how about telling vanessa her beliefs are baseless?

Uh oh...a team up is brewing against me.

Umm...I'm waiting on V's response to my responding post. I wanted to know where her belief in a Nothingness came from. If it's her own opinion and she's not basing it on anything (least of all, some narrow view of dogma)...then I was right in saying it was baseless dont you think? My views my oppose from yours but I'm basing it on something Biblical. That's where the opposing opinions come in, which I can respect.

I'm not continuing in this thread to offend anyone...I'm completely interested in what everyone thinks and feels. If I came across rude or pig-headed, I am sorry for that.

[Miss Vicky]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I was using Hitler as an example, because I think we all can agree he was a monster.

I wasn't talking about the Hitler statement. I was talking about your questioning of someone's understanding of God.

It's an extremely condescending thing to say in a "civil" conversation.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Uh oh...a team up is brewing against me.

Umm...I'm waiting on V's response to my responding post. I wanted to know where her belief in a Nothingness came from. If it's her own opinion and she's not basing it on anything (least of all, some narrow view of dogma)...then I was right in saying it was baseless dont you think? My views my oppose from yours but I'm basing it on something Biblical. That's where the opposing opinions come in, which I can respect.

I'm not continuing in this thread to offend anyone...I'm completely interested in what everyone thinks and feels. If I came across rude or pig-headed, I am sorry for that.

please, nobody is ganging up on you.

it's extremely arrogant to say that someone's beliefs are baseless. why does vanessa have to base her beliefs on anything to make them credible? it works for her. that's all that matters.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Miss Vicky

I wasn't talking about the Hitler statement. I was talking about your questioning of someone's understanding of God.

It's an extremely condescending thing to say in a "civil" conversation.

Starling's original comment had referred to his god having nothing to do with "vengeance" and what i should have said was that (at least in all the major religions of the world) that the deity's claim vengeance or recompense in some form or another. Thus my seemingly rude "Do you even understand God" comment...It just came across as an opinion, not a fundamental thing to say. Which is ok too.

[Stew_Matthews]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I dont know where folks get that "there is no God" belief. All the great religions of the world revolve around the deity. Is it because you want to believe that the rest of the world is wrong? Or you just want to believe that what you do here has no meaning whatsoever?

I must admit that I have agreed with every post Vanessa has made in this thread.

I struggle to reconcile the way the US promotes the disadvantaged and minorities whilst supporting quite extreme (in my view) Christian values. It doesn't stack up easily for me.

On the belief thing generally, I'm a scientist by education and can easily understand how life occurs and have no doubt that we'll all emerge from a test tube in years to come. I am firmly an atheist and intend to make the most of the time I'm alive. It's one shot as far as I'm concerned

A key thing though is respect (yeah not a ledge thing! though in fact not a criticism of you). I have seen enough in the world to write off all religions, however for those who do believe I'm happy for them to get on and do their thing and I respect their conventions as long as people like me, or those with non mainstrean lifestyles can quietly get abbout our lives.

It really is about live and let live.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by carrie721

please, nobody is ganging up on you.

it's extremely arrogant to say that someone's beliefs are baseless.

HAHA...NOT if it's LITERALLY based on nothing. Maybe the word baseless just sounds crass.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

It really is about live and let live.

good to see you around

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

HAHA...NOT if it's LITERALLY based on nothing. Maybe the word baseless just sounds crass.

it's based in her own thoughts and life experiences. that is all she (or anyone) needs.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

I struggle to reconcile the way the US promotes the disadvantaged and minorities whilst supporting quite extreme (in my view) Christian values. It doesn't stack up easily for me.

Which is why Britain lets, for example, a man who had no right to stay in the country stay after he sewed his eyes shut in protest because he didnt want to go back to whatever Middle Eastern country he was from. Sure, lets pay for a soppy wanker like that to stay. What kind of promotion is that?

The "extreme" Judeo-Christian ethic this country seemingly was founded on is dissolving day by day. Personally, I feel the US is becoming an increasingly more violent, dangerous, unblessed place to be. Whether its because the values are being turned away from or not I leave up to your thought.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Everything you said below the first sentence was contradictory to the first statement. I am by no means perfect, but if I was saying what you are saying, I'd re-examine my heart.

It is in no way contradictory.

I am a Christian in that I believe in Jesus. I believe in God. How I choose to follow through with my beliefs and how I view things and the world are not contradictory. Perhaps they are contradictory to whaveter narrow view you clearly have is.

And some of the things YOU describe as God - others see as science.

The non-beliefe in God is no less "baseless" or absurd than your belief in God.

Can you provide concrete proof of one other than your own belief? NO. And conversley - no one can provide concrete proof there is not one? No.

So basically we all believe what we believe - no one is the less for it - and no one's own personal beliefs should be labeled as "baseless" or as silly or wrong.


You tell me to reexamine my heart of whatever - yet you claim to not be on a high horse. Clearly you are - at least what you've been saying comes across that way. What I'm getting is "I'm right and you all need to re-examine because you're wrong" and basically that doesn't sit too well with lots of folks.

[Stew_Matthews]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Which is why Britain lets, for example, a man who had no right to stay in the country stay after he sewed his eyes shut in protest because he didnt want to go back to whatever Middle Eastern country he was from. Sure, lets pay for a soppy wanker like that to stay. What kind of promotion is that?

The "extreme" Judeo-Christian ethic this country seemingly was founded on is dissolving day by day. Personally, I feel the US is becoming an increasingly more violent, dangerous, unblessed place to be. Whether its because the values are being turned away from or not I leave up to your thought.

I'm not sure what point you're making. I wasn't making a US versus UK comparison but it is fair to say that in the UK we don't have people turning up at funerals waving placards or refusing to bury people. The UK may be a bit too liberal - I don't know .

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by danax6

You wouldn't survive us.

I held my own against Gerald in the Dallas heat and with the Mac in the hotel

But, a tag team effort on foreign soil might just do me in

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

It is in no way contradictory.

I am a Christian in that I believe in Jesus. I believe in God. How I choose to follow through with my beliefs and how I view things and the world are not contradictory. Perhaps they are contradictory to whaveter narrow view you clearly have is.

And some of the things YOU describe as God - others see as science.

The non-beliefe in God is no less "baseless" or absurd than your belief in God.

Can you provide concrete proof of one other than your own belief? NO. And conversley - no one can provide concrete proof there is not one? No.

So basically we all believe what we believe - no one is the less for it - and no one's own personal beliefs should be labeled as "baseless" or as silly or wrong.


You tell me to reexamine my heart of whatever - yet you claim to not be on a high horse. Clearly you are - at least what you've been saying comes across that way. What I'm getting is "I'm right and you all need to re-examine because you're wrong" and basically that doesn't sit too well with lots of folks.

I could never say I was a "Christian" and say that I didnt believe the Bible was true....or that you dont need to believe in Jesus Christ. That is the fundamental belief! I personally dont think a "broad" view of Christianity is acceptible. I would much rather believe that my own personal narrow mindness (in regards to me, myself and I salvation) is right, rather than believing "everyone goes to heaven" theory.

I've apologized more than once in this thread for coming across as being on a "High horse"...and I've stated I am in no way perfect. I'm trying to understand why some of you believe WHAT you do...thats all. I really and truly not mean to be a prick. I'm sorry! I care about everyone here...hell, I've been on here for 6 years. I will say this has sparked some interesting discussion.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Stew_Matthews

I'm not sure what point you're making. I wasn't making a US versus UK comparison but it is fair to say that in the UK we don't have people turning up at funerals waving placards or refusing to bury people. The UK may be a bit too liberal - I don't know .

I was just pointing out that the UK, like us has just as many problems. But in regards to the original funeral topic...i see your point. +1 for the Mancs.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by carrie721

. . . it's extremely arrogant to say that someone's beliefs are baseless. why does vanessa have to base her beliefs on anything to make them credible? it works for her. that's all that matters.

I would not say it is arrogant in the true sense of that term. I would use something like ethnocentric instead. I watched a show the other day on Wiccans. When asked if they were satan worshippers, against God, etc. One replied that they could not answer that. The questioner took that to mean yes, they were satan worshippers. The Wiccan then explained that the question could not be answered because they did not believe in the concept of satan, God, Heaven, or hell.

I think that applies here. Brandon used the term baseless within the confines of Christianity, which is his religion, and other major religions of the world. He is correct from that vantage point. However, he is incorrect to assume the existence of any foundation for an atheistic belief in one who does not believe in Christianity. In other words, Christian axioms cannot be applied against someone who does not believe in Chriatianity at all. I think a more correct reply would have been, there is no bases in Christianity or any of the world's other religions for your belief in no God at all. That statement is true and cannot be proven false.