Hey Ryan! Star Trek movie news!

[SortaSavageLike]

I for one can't wait for the Voyager movie. Star Trek XII: Sucking In The Alpha Quadrant!

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Josh2003

that was first BORG contact wasnt it?

Im referring to pre-TOS. first human/Vulcan contact....

[Josh2003]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

that was first BORG contact wasnt it?

Im referring to pre-TOS. first human/Vulcan contact....

There were sort of two things going on in First Contact. The Borg went back in time to destroy Zefram Cochrane's first flight at warp speed, which eventually led to "first contact" with the Vulcans and therefore the establishment of the Federation.

So it's mostly about the Borg, but it also deals with Zefram Cochrane planning his flight and ends with the Vulcans landing on Earth, and for the first time, humans meet an "alien" species.

[ryan8472]

Originally Posted by Josh2003

There were sort of two things going on in First Contact. The Borg went back in time to destroy Zefram Cochrane's first flight at warp speed, which eventually led to "first contact" with the Vulcans and therefore the establishment of the Federation.

So it's mostly about the Borg, but it also deals with Zefram Cochrane planning his flight and ends with the Vulcans landing on Earth, and for the first time, humans meet an "alien" species.

Basically, if it doesnt involve the cast of the first four series, nobody wants to see it anyways.

[irishgrl]

There were sort of two things going on in First Contact. The Borg went back in time to destroy Zefram Cochrane's first flight at warp speed, which eventually led to "first contact" with the Vulcans and therefore the establishment of the Federation.

So it's mostly about the Borg, but it also deals with Zefram Cochrane planning his flight and ends with the Vulcans landing on Earth, and for the first time, humans meet an "alien" species.

that is a misstatement of established Star Trek Cannon: please see Strangers from the Sky, about a Vulcan science probe ship that crash landed on earth and provided the first human/vulcan contact, as a matter of fact, the Vulcans assisted Zephram in the construction of the first warp drive.

here is a link

[Josh2003]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

that is a misstatement of established Star Trek Cannon: please see Strangers from the Sky, about a Vulcan science probe ship that crash landed on earth and provided the first human/vulcan contact, as a matter of fact, the Vulcans assisted Zephram in the construction of the first warp drive.

here is a link

I thought it was generally accepted that novels are not considered "established" canon.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Josh2003

I thought it was generally accepted that novels are not considered "established" canon.

well, when they piggyback upon each other, I gathered they were most movies are taken from books anyway, so, it seems logical to me that a novel is the root of a timeline not a movie.

[ryan8472]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

well, when they piggyback upon each other, I gathered they were most movies are taken from books anyway, so, it seems logical to me that a novel is the root of a timeline not a movie.

ERRONEOUS. The Star Trek movies were never books. They were written on their own. And all Trek novels are considered non-canon.

[irishgrl]

thats not true, I have the book for the first movie...and who says books are non-canon?

wiki says:

The Star Trek canon is usually defined as comprising the television series Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and the ten motion pictures, and excluding everything else.[1] However, the official Star Trek website acknowledges that this definition is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon is fluid, open to interpretation and debate.[1]
Contents

and this from startrek.com

07.10.2003
How do the Star Trek novels and comic books fit into the Star Trek universe? What is considered Star Trek "canon"?

As a rule of thumb, the events that take place within the live-action episodes and movies are canon, or official Star Trek facts. Story lines, characters, events, stardates, etc. that take place within the fictional novels, video games, the Animated Series, and the various comic lines have traditionally not been considered part of the canon. But canon is not something set in stone; even events in some of the movies have been called into question as to whether they should be considered canon! Ultimately, the fans, the writers and the producers may all differ on what is considered canon and the very idea of what is canon has become more fluid, especially as there isn't a single voice or arbiter to decide. Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry was accustomed to making statements about canon, but even he was known to change his mind.

In the publishing world, there used to be two exceptions to the novel rule: the Jeri Taylor- penned books "Mosaic" and "Pathways." Many of the events in these two novels feature background details of the main Star Trek: Voyager characters and were to be considered as references by writers on the show. Now that the show is over, some of those events may never be incorporated into a live action format, so the question of whether details from these novels remain canon is open to interpretation.

With regard to the Animated Series, there are a few details from the episode "Yesteryear," written by D.C. Fontana, that reveal biographical background on Spock and planet Vulcan. Details from this episode have been successfully incorporated into the canon of Star Trek (such as in "The Forge") and now that the Animated Series is out on DVD, we hope that even more can make its way in!
www.startrek.com

I have several novels by DC Fontana, and if she has Gene's blessing, then I would assume her works are canon.

on a different note, I found a cool timeline

2045

* A Vulcan scout ship crash lands on Earth. (Strangers From The Sky - Book Two)

2048

* The Icarus discovers sentient humanoid life in the Alpha Certauri system. (Strangers From The Sky - "Author's Foreward")
Note: The Icarus was not a sleeper ship. The 30-year duration of its voyage is a predictable consequence of relativistic time distortion at very high sublight speeds.

2053

May 1

* Colonel Green, founder of the Optimum movement, wages nuclear war upon the United States. (Star Trek VIII: First Contact , also Federation and "The Savage Curtain," Star Trek 6)
* The residents of the Vanguard asteroid colony in orbit around Earth observe the nuclear detonations on the planet. (The Lost Era: The Sundered - Ch. 6)

2055

* Zefram Cochrane discovers a "breakthrough" in warp drive technology. Micah Brack begins funding his experiments. (Strangers From The Sky - "Author's Foreward", also Federation)

2058

August 9

* During a warp field test by Cochrane's Project Phoenix, the Vanguard colony is accidentally transported about 200 light-years from Earth. Less than one month later, the colony is attacked by Naussicans, who kill nearly a third of the colonists. (The Lost Era: The Sundered - Ch. 7-8)

2060

* Aboard the John Cabal, Zefram Cochrane demonstrates warp capability to Brack with a fluctuation superimpellor test sled. (Federation)

2063

April 6

* Zephram Cochrane is visited by the crew of the Enterprise-D from 300 years in the future, who implore him to continue with his warp flight test despite a recent attack by the Borg. Meanwhile, the Vanguard colony continues to practice radical genetic engineering so that their children mature faster and are better adapted to their environment. (The Lost Era: The Sundered - Ch. 12)

April 7

* Cochrane breaks the light barrier with the Phoenix. Vulcan makes first contact with Earth. (Star Trek VIII: First Contact, also Mosaic)
* Dulmer and Lucsly of the Department of Temporal Investigations perform reconnaissance at Cochrane's Montana base to ensure that no corruption of the timeline has occurred. ("Almost... But Not Quite," Strange New Worlds II)

2064

March 19

* Cochrane returns from his interstellar trip to Alpha Centauri on the Bonaventure, arriving at Christopher's Landing on Titan. The entire journey had taken 243 days. Shortly after his return, he departs again to flee Adrik Thorsen. (Federation - Ch. 1-2)
Note: The given year of 2061 is incorrect, as this would predate Cochrane's first manned test of warp drive.

2065

* The U.N.S.S. Amity rescues a disabled Vulcan craft within the solar system. (Strangers From The Sky - "Author's Foreward")
Note: The text claims this to be the first encounter with Vulcans. Either the prior contact with Zefram Cochrane was kept secret, or else the author meant the first offworld contact initiated by an Earth vessel. This particular event appears to have paved the way toward diplomatic relations.

[irishgrl]

a footnote to the above:

after much delving into the canon/non-canon question, it appears that the prevailing feeling is that novels are not canon. I was wrong. That said, there is a slim bit of novelization that IS canon and perhaps in the future, some of the novels I have will BECOME canon. Who knows? I find it a more fleshed out Trek Universe that INCLUDES bits from the novels, much like the timeline I linked to above. Gene Roddenberry and Paramount have changed their position a few times on what constituted canon, so I can accept that I am presently in the minority and hope for the acceptance of the novels into the canon universe in the future.

[ryan8472]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

a footnote to the above:

after much delving into the canon/non-canon question, it appears that the prevailing feeling is that novels are not canon. I was wrong. That said, there is a slim bit of novelization that IS canon and perhaps in the future, some of the novels I have will BECOME canon. Who knows? I find it a more fleshed out Trek Universe that INCLUDES bits from the novels, much like the timeline I linked to above. Gene Roddenberry and Paramount have changed their position a few times on what constituted canon, so I can accept that I am presently in the minority and hope for the acceptance of the novels into the canon universe in the future.

Well tbh, Gene has been dead since 1991. He didnt even want to consider ST5: The Final Frontier to be canon (b/c it was so bad), much less the novels. So who knows. But the fans dont accept them.

[Josh2003]

So basically, information from a novel is only canon until it is incorporated into an episode/movie. That does not make the novel canon, just the information that made it to the show.

Personally, I hate to accept anything from "Enterprise" as canon, because it seemed to re-write so much of what has come to be accepted as canon. Archer and company had contact with the Borg?? Come on!!

Anyway, I think that irishgirl, Ryan and myself with the Ledge Nerd Award for this debate/discussion :-)

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Josh2003

So basically, information from a novel is only canon until it is incorporated into an episode/movie. That does not make the novel canon, just the information that made it to the show.

Personally, I hate to accept anything from "Enterprise" as canon, because it seemed to re-write so much of what has come to be accepted as canon. Archer and company had contact with the Borg?? Come on!!

Anyway, I think that irishgirl, Ryan and myself with the Ledge Nerd Award for this debate/discussion :-)

omg what a funny photo!

as an aside, some of my favorite novels are the ones that deal with pre-TOS days, Prime Directive is awesome, it deals with Robert April and Captain Kirk's father (forget his name LOL!) and I love all the Vulcan stories too. Personally, I find it gives a person a better understanding of the nuances that created the characters, the culture, the history etc. There was even a story (Best Destiny, by Diane Carey) that had young James T. Kirk stowing away on a spaceship and getting into trouble and helping to solve problems, even as a young boy. It shows you what made him decide to go into starfleet in the first place. I like stuff like that...

[emfan2377]

I read that JJ Abrams has thrown out the name of singer Robbie Williams as Kirk.