Executed man's last request honored -- pizza for homeless

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I'd be interested in seeing those, because if the majority of death row inmates are poor blacks, . . . .

Is that actually true?

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/Blumeetal.pdf

As an aside many of the death row or hard timers know the law better than most lawyers. But and in any event, they have access to legal aid and many high up lawyers will take a case pro bono. Having said that, there is WAY more to be done regarding indigent defense. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/id.htm

[DrummerDeanna]

One very interesting site I found:

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

Still looking for actual news articles or perhaps academic ones - a lot of the links don't work...but I'll keep a looking when I get the chance...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

One very interesting site I found:

http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html

Still looking for actual news articles or perhaps academic ones - a lot of the links don't work...but I'll keep a looking when I get the chance...

Interesting article. I am on a comp that is not very good -- so it was hard to read the text.

I think, though, that the article assumed that the life behind bars group did not appeal. If this is so, then the numbers are incorrect because that group also appeals and those appellate costs should be considered.

Again, if I misread and I enjoyed reading the parts I could!!!

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Interesting article. I am on a comp that is not very good -- so it was hard to read the text.

I think, though, that the article assumed that the life behind bars group did not appeal. If this is so, then the numbers are incorrect because that group also appeals and those appellate costs should be considered.

Again, if I misread and I enjoyed reading the parts I could!!!

Hmm...yeah I'm not sure if those things were taken into consideration, I read it about halfway through then had to get some actual work done...

And many of the articles I'm finding are either pro-death penalty or anti-death penalty - so I'd love to find some that were not written by groups with a clear agenda.

[Sarah]

I have weird feelings about the death penalty.

For me, it's like, yeah, I recognize that it sucks. But then, hey, it kind of sucks that the killer gets a less grotesque death than a victim. If it didn't cost tons of money, and if prison was way, way more punishment than it actually is, I'd much prefer to see the selfish sons-of-bitches rot in solitary confinement with no tv, no tp, and bread and water for 40 to 50 years. Violent criminals should just sit there and have nothing to do but think about what they've done over and over and over. No basketball courts, either. It's jumping jacks in your 6 x 6 if you feel the need to buff up, bucko.

[irishgrl]

Dee, I found this from Niki's website...looks like you may have a point.....

California spends millions more on capital cases
California spends $90 Million dollars annually above and beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system on capital cases. $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988). In January 2003, despite a budge deficit, California Governor Gray Davis proposed building a new $220 million state of the art death row. (New York Times, January 14, 2003).

well, well, Niki's fact sheet disproved the stereotypical "death row is disproportionately populated by blacks" theory (which many (Including myself and Amber apparently!) mistakenly believed):

Races on Death Row:
White: 45%
Black 42%
Hispanic 11%
Other 2%

Race of Death Row Inmates actually executed:
White 57%
Black 34%
Hispanic 7%
Other 2%

Another interesting tidbit: 80% of the time, the victims in Death Row cases are White.

California has the most inmates on death row (660) but Texas and Virginia executed the most death row inmates. A death sentence in CA is not necessarily a death sentence apparently.....

[strandinthewind]

What does

. . . above and beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system on capital cases. $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988).

mean? Capital cases do not require any more prep than a life case - at least no significant amount at the trial level. And, certainly lifers appeal as much as the death row inmates So, I am not understanding the numbers behind these stats.

And -

In January 2003, despite a budge deficit, California Governor Gray Davis proposed building a new $220 million state of the art death row. (New York Times, January 14, 2003).

Is that an addition to the prison overall or just that one hall of inmates? Me thinks that figure is being manipulated.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

. . . And many of the articles I'm finding are either pro-death penalty or anti-death penalty - so I'd love to find some that were not written by groups with a clear agenda.

Me either - and this computer sucks

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

well, well, Niki's fact sheet disproved the stereotypical "death row is disproportionately populated by blacks" theory (which many (Including myself and Amber apparently!) mistakenly believed):

If blacks make up 13% of the total population in America, yet 42% of all death row inmates, then death row is most certainly disproportionately populated by blacks. No one is saying there are more black people on death row than whites, the key word is "disproportionate".

Another interesting tidbit: 80% of the time, the victims in Death Row cases are White.

Interesting and not surprising.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

If blacks make up 13% of the total population in America, yet 42% of all death row inmates, then death row is most certainly disproportionately populated by blacks. No one is saying there are more black people on death row than whites, the key word is "disproportionate".




Interesting and not surprising.

are they in fact only 13% of the population? I'd venture to say thats not the case in CA I guess I'll take a quick look at the Census data for CA...

ETA: apparently the total US proportion of Blacks is a little over 12% and in CA, Blacks comprise approx 6%

well, then, are those fact sheets from the Death Penalty Info site to be trusted after all?

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

well, then, are those fact sheets from the Death Penalty Info site to be trusted after all?

Of course...they give the facts. I was just saying that the interpretation that blacks are disproportionately represented on death row is an accurate one.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

What does



mean? Capital cases do not require any more prep than a life case - at least no significant amount at the trial level. And, certainly lifers appeal as much as the death row inmates So, I am not understanding the numbers behind these stats.

And -



Is that an addition to the prison overall or just that one hall of inmates? Me thinks that figure is being manipulated.

I doubt that facility was ever built, remember CA was having financial troubles then, and many counties were declaring bankruptcy and State Employees were paid via voucher.

Gosh, if we cant trust fact sheets to be factual, where do we get solid info?

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

If blacks make up 13% of the total population in America, yet 42% of all death row inmates, then death row is most certainly disproportionately populated by blacks. No one is saying there are more black people on death row than whites, the key word is "disproportionate".

I always find this kind of statistic confusing, and perhaps even misleading.

Is the number supposed to indicate simply that more blacks get the death penalty than any other race, all crimes being equal, or is it simply a reflection of the percentage of the number of blacks convicted of crimes eligible for the death penalty?

What I am getting at is are there simply more blacks on death row because there are just that many more blacks committing crimes that get them there?
I truly don't know.

I guess the telling statistic would be what percentage of each race eligible for the death penalty gets that pinned to their sentence. This statistic is kind of without a point unless that is known.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

Of course...they give the facts. I was just saying that the interpretation that blacks are disproportionately represented on death row is an accurate one.

it depends: if you are looking at the RACE factor then ok, but if you are looking at the raw data, then they dont appear to be targets as some might think. I guess it makes a difference which point you are trying to make, whether there are more Blacks on Death Row or more Blacks compared to their proportion of the total population.

I personally dont see why race needs to be brought into this

ETA: sparky said it better

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by sparky

I always find this kind of statistic confusing, and perhaps even misleading.

Is the number supposed to indicate simply that more blacks get the death penalty than any other race, all crimes being equal, or is it simply a reflection of the percentage of the number of blacks convicted of crimes eligible for the death penalty?

What I am getting at is are there simply more blacks on death row because there are just that many more blacks committing crimes that get them there?
I truly don't know.

I guess the telling statistic would be what percentage of each race eligible for the death penalty gets that pinned to their sentence. This statistic is kind of without a point unless that is known.

sparky, this may help:

Race of Death Row Inmates actually executed:
White 57%
Black 34%
Hispanic 7%
Other 2%