Say WHAT??

[irishgrl]

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Giuliani emerging as favorite of gays

By COLLEEN SLEVIN, Associated Press Writer 58 minutes ago

Rudy Giuliani emerged as a favorite among many members of the GOP's largest gay organization, who cited his record on social issues, taxes and defense.

However, delegates to the Log Cabin Republicans annual convention said Friday they also fear that the former New York mayor, in his bid to capture the Republican presidential nomination, might be waffling as he reaches out to the more conservative GOP voters who hold sway in the primaries.

"Mainstream Republican voters and moderate voters are going to vote for you. Don't tilt to the right," said Frank Ricchiazzi, who helped found the Log Cabin group 30 years ago.

Ricchiazzi, who wore an "I Love Rudy" button, cited Giuliani's remarks on abortion during the GOP presidential candidates' debate Thursday night.

With a record of supporting abortion rights, Giuliani said "it would be OK" if the Supreme Court upholds the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling that legalized abortion. "It would be OK to repeal it. It would be OK also if a strict constructionist viewed it as precedent," he said.

Following the GOP's losses in the November elections, in both Congress and the statehouses, many gay Republicans said they believe the party should strive to select a candidate who doesn't focus on divisive social issues.

Former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson of Wyoming, the event's keynote speaker, agreed. He told the group of about 200 that he thinks the party is in a better place than it was after delving into issues like the Terri Schiavo case and gay marriage.

"We're shaking some of the goofies and zanies out of the trees," Simpson said to laughter.

"Who the hell's for abortion?" he added, explaining that it is a personal decision and should not be on the party platform.

Simpson repeatedly declined to comment on the individual GOP candidates. He urged the Log Cabin delegates to work for change within the party.

"Don't be impatient. Stay in the party. Don't leave because you can change it," Simpson said.

Asked about Tommy Thompson's remark Thursday that an employer should be allowed to fire a gay worker solely for being gay, Simpson said he didn't watch the debate. He called the response a "crazy statement to make in these times" and "insensitive."

Thompson apologized for the answer on Friday, saying he had made a mistake.

Log Cabin president Patrick Sammon said the group won't endorse a candidate before the primaries and doesn't expect anyone to run on a platform that includes gay rights. A unifying conservative agenda will support free trade, an aggressive war on terrorism, fiscal responsibility and limited government, he said.

That said, Sammon called Giuliani "a very strong leader with an inclusive record."

David Keeton, a small-business owner in Dallas, and his partner, Rob Schlein, said they supported Giuliani because of his record as New York mayor and his response to the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

"I'm an American first, then a Republican second, and gay falls in third or fourth," said Keeton, who wore a Ronald Reagan pin on his lapel.

Both said they recently met former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney at a fundraiser and had their picture taken with him. They were offended when Romney told the crowd that he opposed gay marriage and civil unions.

"We're part of the Republican Party, but he just alienated people who had paid $1,500 for a table," Keeton said.

Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

so....is this true?

[carrie721]

GOP's largest gay organization

Log Cabin Republicans

gay Republicans

gag.

With a record of supporting abortion rights, Giuliani said "it would be OK" if the Supreme Court upholds the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling that legalized abortion. "It would be OK to repeal it. It would be OK also if a strict constructionist viewed it as precedent," he said.

wtf?

"I'm an American first, then a Republican second, and gay falls in third or fourth," said Keeton, who wore a Ronald Reagan pin on his lapel.

what the fukc ever. i am no rainbow-flag-waving dyke, but these days that whole party is predicated on undercutting our rights. it's not the party of personal responsibility anymore, it's the party of hatred and fear.

[markolas]

Guiliani is scum, and so are all the other Republican candidates. I don't understand gay Republicans in the same way I don't understand gay Christians; it just boggles my mind.

[michelle2677]

Originally Posted by markolas

Guiliani is scum, and so are all the other Republican candidates. I don't understand gay Republicans in the same way I don't understand gay Christians; it just boggles my mind.

could you elaborate on that more, please

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by michelle2677

could you elaborate on that more, please

i can't speak for markolas but i'll offer my opinion. it is a basic tenet of christianity that homosexuality is wrong. you can't pick and choose what doctrine you do and don't want to follow in any given religion - it's in the bible. so how can anyone reconcile being gay & christian? i certainly couldn't, so i'm no longer christian. it's the same thing with republicans - that party is about social conservatism, about the mingling of church & state, about doing harm to gay people. simple as that.

[markolas]

Originally Posted by michelle2677

could you elaborate on that more, please

I'm not sure what more there is to say. A federal Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is part of the Republican party platform...their feelings about gay people couldn't get much clearer than that.

As for Christianity, almost no mainline denomination is actually pro-gay. The ones that are supposedly inclusive (like the Episcopalians) generally just talk out of both sides of their face. The Bible says a lot of horrifying things, so it isn't just about that. I might, in good conscience, be able to recommend one of the New Thought denominations (like Unity or Religious Science), but most mainliners don't even consider them Christian, so maybe that says a lot about my sensibilities.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by markolas

I'm not sure what more there is to say. A federal Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is part of the Republican party platform...their feelings about gay people couldn't get much clearer than that.

As for Christianity, almost no mainline denomination is actually pro-gay. The ones that are supposedly inclusive (like the Episcopalians) generally just talk out of both sides of their face. The Bible says a lot of horrifying things, so it isn't just about that. I might, in good conscience, be able to recommend one of the New Thought denominations (like Unity or Religious Science), but most mainliners don't even consider them Christian, so maybe that says a lot about my sensibilities.

i'm not disagreeing with your basic point - but i believe that the unitarian universalists are pro-gay. at least, they say they are. i know there are christians our there who are supportive of gay issues, but IMO any bible-based religion cannot be considered gay-friendly.

[markolas]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i'm not disagreeing with your basic point - but i believe that the unitarian universalists are pro-gay. at least, they say they are. i know there are christians our there who are supportive of gay issues, but IMO any bible-based religion cannot be considered gay-friendly.

The UUs are generally pro-gay, but I don't think they are considered Christian (either by themselves or by others) to any degree anymore. Also, more liberal Christians don't take the Bible to be an inerrant document the way the fundamentalists do. I mean, it's not too female-friendly either...you can kinda take what fits and leave the rest. If you're so inclined. Me, I just went with something else.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by markolas

The UUs are generally pro-gay, but I don't think they are considered Christian (either by themselves or by others) to any degree anymore. Also, more liberal Christians don't take the Bible to be an inerrant document the way the fundamentalists do. I mean, it's not too female-friendly either...you can kinda take what fits and leave the rest. If you're so inclined. Me, I just went with something else.

i guess i don't understand when people say that the homophobic and misogynistic aspects of the bible are outdated and can be dismissed - i mean, if it's in the holy book, and you don't believe it, can you really be a christian? that's where i get hung up.

[catinthedark]

Originally Posted by markolas

As for Christianity, almost no mainline denomination is actually pro-gay.

the united church of canada is!!

and we do fall under that big huge gaping umbrella of christianty, as opposed to that of judaism or islam!

[markolas]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i guess i don't understand when people say that the homophobic and misogynistic aspects of the bible are outdated and can be dismissed - i mean, if it's in the holy book, and you don't believe it, can you really be a christian? that's where i get hung up.

Some just don't believe it's inerrant. I think that idea is a pretty recent development in the history of Christianity (like, within the last 100-200 years). The Catholics, Anglicans, and Orthodox don't really subscribe to it; if you look at their arguments against gay relationships, they don't revolve around biblical passages as much as around the tradition of the church, which has historically been at least as important (if not more so) than what the Bible says.

[markolas]

Originally Posted by catinthedark

the united church of canada is!!

and we do fall under that big huge gaping umbrella of christianty, as opposed to that of judaism or islam!

Yeah, there's one or two, which is why I hesitated to say "none." But it really is just a drop in the bucket.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by carrie721

gag.



wtf?



what the fukc ever. i am no rainbow-flag-waving dyke, but these days that whole party is predicated on undercutting our rights. it's not the party of personal responsibility anymore, it's the party of hatred and fear.

I step away from the computer, and I come back to this? Keep this up and Im a devotee too, girlie

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i can't speak for markolas but i'll offer my opinion. it is a basic tenet of christianity that homosexuality is wrong. you can't pick and choose what doctrine you do and don't want to follow in any given religion - it's in the bible. so how can anyone reconcile being gay & christian? i certainly couldn't, so i'm no longer christian. it's the same thing with republicans - that party is about social conservatism, about the mingling of church & state, about doing harm to gay people. simple as that.

It may interest you to know that homosexuality wasnt always denounced. It was very prevalent in Asia, early Roman and Greek society (and Arab too, Id venture to say....) At any rate it wasnt unheard of, and it certainly wasnt vilified the way it is now. Only in America is homosexuality "evil" Mostly because America was founded by religious fanatics. The Bible was tampered with at the Fifth Ecumenical Council, under the auspices of Constantine, who (after Paul) basically created the modern day Christian Church. In that moment in time, the Christian Religion lost the majority of what made it special, ie: a TOLERANCE of one's fellow man.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i'm not disagreeing with your basic point - but i believe that the unitarian universalists are pro-gay. at least, they say they are. i know there are christians our there who are supportive of gay issues, but IMO any bible-based religion cannot be considered gay-friendly.

In point of fact, the Unitarian Universalists are the ONLY "mainstream" Christian Religion that embraces the gay culture, as evidenced by their ongoing fight to have their religion accepted by the Boy Scouts as an accepted Christian Religion that could satisfy the "spiritual" component required of all Boy Scouts of a certain age upward. I know this because I chose NOT to sign my son up for Boy Scouts after reading their requirements regarding their Oath of Allegience etc.....please see this: Duty to God as proof. Blech.

● Webelos Scout
A boy is required to either “[e]arn the religious emblem of your faith” or do two of the following:

“Attend the church, synagogue, mosque, or other religious organization of your choice, talk with your religious leader about your beliefs, and tell your family and Webelos den leader about what you learned.”;

“Tell how your religious beliefs fit in with the Scout Oath and Scout Law, Discuss this with your family and Webelos den leader: What character-building traits do your beliefs and the Scout Oath and Scout Law have in common?”;

“With your religious leader, discuss and write down two things you think will help you draw nearer to God. Do these things.”;

“Pray to God or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family, and by your church, synagogue, or religious group. Do this for at least one month.”;

“Under the direction of your religious leader, do an act of service for someone else. Talk about your service with your family and Webelos den leader. Tell them how it made you feel.”; or

“List at least two ways you believe you have lived according to your religious beliefs.”

and the Boy Scouts work hand in hand with the Religious Right, believe me.