Fire Imus?

[Kelly]

While I think what Imus said was completely inappropriate, I am left wondering why no one cared when Donald Trump called Rosie O'Donnell a "fat, loser lesbian". That was one of many degrading comments he made about her sexuality. He used the public airwaves to rant as well. He went on CNN, NBC etc and spewed his venom for weeks, insulting Rosie as a woman, a mother and as a lesbian. I didn't see NBC threaten to cancel The Apprentice. I didn't see sponsers pull out of his show. Where do we draw the line on what is offensive in this country? Imus apologized and admitted he was wrong, Trump thinks his opinions are justified!

Seeing that Imus has a track record of making racially inappropriate statements, I am a bit torn about what should be done about him. Honestly, I think the people should be left to decide whether they want to listen to him or not. The Apprentice ratings have been dropping dramatically...perhaps some people are tuning out after hearing Trump's sexist, degrading comments.

This whole thing makes me incredibly sad, as I graduated from Rutgers. These young women's achievements have been overshadowed by a 50 second bit on a radio program. In the future when they think back to their fight for the NCAA title, the first thing they will remember is Imus's hurtful comments.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by skcin

Yes, they did and yes, they were. Said it took away from their accomplishments as a team.

If they think their accomplishments were taken away in some form, or they were "hurt" by the ranting of a jackball shock jock, I am thinking they have learned little from their higher educations. The proper response? "He's an idiot and an entertainer and no one cares what he thinks".

Holding a press conference and talking about how painful it is strikes me as more than a little pathetic. I swear, we are five minutes from the thought police being dispatched. It will solve nothing. Firing him or banning him is like jailing a person who burns a flag. It is so missing the point. You can't legislate thoughts and you can't force people to change their belief systems.
White guilt strikes again.

[CelticGypsy]

Originally Posted by sparky

If they think their accomplishments were taken away in some form, or they were "hurt" by the ranting of a jackball shock jock, I am thinking they have learned little from their higher educations. The proper response? "He's an idiot and an entertainer and no one cares what he thinks".

Holding a press conference and talking about how painful it is strikes me as more than a little pathetic. I swear, we are five minutes from the thought police being dispatched. It will solve nothing. Firing him or banning him is like jailing a person who burns a flag. It is so missing the point. You can't legislate thoughts and you can't force people to change their belief systems.
White guilt strikes again.

Very good points

[sara1998]

Originally Posted by goldustsongbird

I agree with you. You see it in stand up comedy all the time. It's okay if a black man makes a comment about lil ol whitey over there, but you know if a white comedian even hinted at any ill toward blacks, people would be all over it.

I just used the example of comedians because I saw something on Just for Laughs a few nights ago, where this guy made a stereotypical white person joke. Everyone cracked up. There were no news reports about it. You know it would be a different case if it were the other way around. I'm not saying racism from either side is appropriate, but play fair. Condemn one group, gotta condemn the other.

I.Love.You.So.Much.Right.Now.

[Mari]

^^I'll never understand it when white people whine about being discriminated.. Huh?!

mm. let me put it this way: when members of a priviledged majority whine about being discriminated. Excuse me?

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by sparky

If they think their accomplishments were taken away in some form, or they were "hurt" by the ranting of a jackball shock jock, I am thinking they have learned little from their higher educations. The proper response? "He's an idiot and an entertainer and no one cares what he thinks".

Holding a press conference and talking about how painful it is strikes me as more than a little pathetic. I swear, we are five minutes from the thought police being dispatched. It will solve nothing. Firing him or banning him is like jailing a person who burns a flag. It is so missing the point. You can't legislate thoughts and you can't force people to change their belief systems.
White guilt strikes again.

Sparky, you can't tell someone what the "proper" response should be. That would be your response and it would be your response based on your own experiences and way of approaching things.

Since I am not black, and I am not a woman, I can't pretend to say how these women should have responded. They held a press conference because there is a media firestorm out there. They are a class act, showing they will take Imus' offer to meet with them (I would have told him to fukc off) and making sure that the meeting is private and not disclosing info to the media about it.

As for the firing, no one has a right to make a ton of money off of free speech. Imus can say whatever the hell he wants but that doesn't guarantee him a fat contract with MSNBC. It is not remotely similar to jailing someone for burning a flag. Someone else will have to pay the man's salary.

[sara1998]

So, we're not allowed racial slurs, but they are? What justifies that?

[Rickypt]

I agree that the racial slurs should stop from all sides. What I don't understand is why anytime there is a thread here about a racist act/slur against a person of color, the conversation almost immediately turns to examples of racism against whites or a discussion about welfare.

Yes, there are examples of racism against whites, but does anyone really believe that the experience of white people in general can be compared to the experience of black people. Either historically or today--it's just not even close. Therefore, there is a disproportional impact of a phrase like "nappy-headed ho's" used against young black women compared to a black comedian talking about how white people can't dance. It's all about power dynamics. I wish Hejira were chiming in because I liked what he had to say in the ching-chong thread about this issue.

Anyway, when the playing level is much more level in the U.S., then an old white grouch can probably get away with the nappy-headed ho comment on his TV show. We're not there--we're not close to there--so there is going to be this kind of firestorm when these things happen.

I agree with everyone about Sharpton/Jackson. I wish they would calm down and explain the impact of these words in a way that people can hear instead of picketing CBS demanding Imus to be fired. I would have fired Imus myself because I wouldn't want my money going to him, but the discussion shouldn't be about firing someone. It should be about explaining why these words were so offensive. There have been some great guest on various political shows, including conservative Armstrong Williams, who have done a fantastic job explaining all of this.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by Kelly

While I think what Imus said was completely inappropriate, I am left wondering why no one cared when Donald Trump called Rosie O'Donnell a "fat, loser lesbian". That was one of many degrading comments he made about her sexuality. He used the public airwaves to rant as well. He went on CNN, NBC etc and spewed his venom for weeks, insulting Rosie as a woman, a mother and as a lesbian. I didn't see NBC threaten to cancel The Apprentice. I didn't see sponsers pull out of his show. Where do we draw the line on what is offensive in this country? Imus apologized and admitted he was wrong, Trump thinks his opinions are justified!

Very good point. I think what happened is there has been this growing wave of high-profile racist and other offensive remarks and it came to a head with Imus and he became the fall guy. Perhaps if the LGBT community had made as much noise around the Rosie comments then something would have happened. But if we did, then we'd be accused of being thought police and against freedom of speech. And let's face it, homophobic slurs aren't thought of in the same light as racial slurs.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by sparky

If they think their accomplishments were taken away in some form, or they were "hurt" by the ranting of a jackball shock jock, I am thinking they have learned little from their higher educations. The proper response? "He's an idiot and an entertainer and no one cares what he thinks".

Holding a press conference and talking about how painful it is strikes me as more than a little pathetic. I swear, we are five minutes from the thought police being dispatched. It will solve nothing. Firing him or banning him is like jailing a person who burns a flag. It is so missing the point. You can't legislate thoughts and you can't force people to change their belief systems.
White guilt strikes again.

Good point. As a side note - why does anyone care what Al Roker or Whoopi Goldberg think?

Originally Posted by Mari

^^I'll never understand it when white people whine about being discriminated.. Huh?!

mm. let me put it this way: when members of a priviledged majority whine about being discriminated. Excuse me?

I said it before, I'll say it again. There is no term that anyone can call me (as a white middle class straight woman) that is anywhere near as offensive as calling a black person a n*gger or a gay person a f*ggot. There just isn't. ****, whore, bitch, white trash, cracker - none of them come close, IMO.

Have I been discriminated against by a black person for being white? Yes. But in the grand scheme of things, it did not negatively affect my life. It doesn't make me want to judge all black people as racist because of it. I can't control how others feel about me, or whether or not they care about what color I am. But I can control how I react & how I choose to allow it to affect me.

[Mari]

^thanks Paula, that was pretty much what I was thinking about

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by skcin

Good point. As a side note - why does anyone care what Al Roker or Whoopi Goldberg think?

I said it before, I'll say it again. There is no term that anyone can call me (as a white middle class straight woman) that is anywhere near as offensive as calling a black person a n*gger or a gay person a f*ggot. There just isn't. ****, whore, bitch, white trash, cracker - none of them come close, IMO.

Have I been discriminated against by a black person for being white? Yes. But in the grand scheme of things, it did not negatively affect my life. It doesn't make me want to judge all black people as racist because of it. I can't control how others feel about me, or whether or not they care about what color I am. But I can control how I react & how I choose to allow it to affect me.

good point.

[...obviously no one gives a **** about what I said...]

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Actually, I prefer to stand, Miz Sausage Pattie. Look who's talking Mr.-I-use-a-pair-of-tweezers-to-masturbate.....

Well - for your information pootah - now that I am taking Vitrex, I have graduated to a monkey wrench

Originally Posted by The Tower

That reminds me of an old black and white movie from the 30's where Kate Smith is sitting around with a bunch of little black kids singing about "Pickaninnies dreaming about watermelon".

Lord Child

Of course, one of my fav.'s is the 1936 Show Boat http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028249/ (Edna Ferber = Le Sigh)

Ol' Man River,
Dat Ol' Man River,
He mus' know sumpin',
But don' say nothin';
He jes' keeps rollin',
He keeps on rollin' along.

The above was better and more realistic with the unchanged, current PC lyrics

Not to mention "Can't Help Lovin' That Man of Mine" - we need to do this as a duet!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

. . . Since I am not black, and I am not a woman . . . .

Well, there was that time on stage in Cabo San Lucas Sadly, no video exists

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Mari

^^I'll never understand it when white people whine about being discriminated.. Huh?!

mm. let me put it this way: when members of a priviledged majority whine about being discriminated. Excuse me?

I think it is because in America, the current system is designed to promote black people over white people in an attempt to right the wrongs of the past.

The problem with that goal is that all black people can take advantage of this system regardless of their income, privilege, etc

For example, if you have a below poverty level white kid who is more deserving on his own merit, he likely will lose an application to school, for a job, etc. to a rich, black kid who is less deserving on his own merit. To me, that is not right and it solves nothing in the way of helping people who need help, which ostensibly was the larger goal.

Similarly, government and some private contracts are given to minority owned firms solely because they are minority owned and no matter how much higher the price or the quality of workmanship. I think when people see this disparate treatment, they get angry, esp. when they are coughing up 30-40% of their salary to pay for this BS wasting of money. In other words, it would be cheaper and more efficient to take 10% of your money and go to the projects and hand it out on the street along with a providing a class on how to succeed in business. Moreover, white owned businesses have closed because of this treatment and good, hard working, white families have lost their homes, etc. because of this. How is that fair?

I have used this example in the past. My blond haired and blue eyed friend had no clue that something like his great, great grandfather's race allowed him to qualify for special treatment. This guy came from a wealthy family who could clearly afford to educate him in style. Yet, he qualified for a scholarship based on his "race" and he got into a school over more qualified white people. My friend certainly knew nothing of his past and certainly could have cared a less about righting any wrongs, as all his family's wrongs had been made right via their own hard work generations before then.

So, the question is - how is a system that allows this called a fair system? The answer is it is not.

So, the question then becomes, well, don't we have to help disadvantaged kids? Yes, we do.

But, helping disadvantaged kids should be just that. This is why I conclude any leg up should be based on poverty alone and race should not enter the picture. After all, aren't poor white kids just as deserving as poor black kids. Certainly, the poor white kids are discriminated against.

Yet, me saying this brands me as a horrible racist in this country. I think that is wrong.