Fire Imus?

[skcin]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I thought his speech was riddled with prejudiced remarks and oversimplifications (more of the latter, really). He wasn't helping anything from my point of view, just showing that he was less in-touch than I had assumed.

Really? I disagree. I mean, to a point, I guess it is easy for him to say these things, being a rich man. But I think his basic message of take responsibility for your own actions & actively raise your kids is a good one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Sep8.html

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by skcin

Really? I disagree. I mean, to a point, I guess it is easy for him to say these things, being a rich man. But I think his basic message of take responsibility for your own actions & actively raise your kids is a good one.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Sep8.html

I do agree with the message for the most part; I should've clarified. But I really don't agree with this idea he has that his race should take full responsibility and the white world is in no way to blame for the problems they face. I thought it was petty to carry on about people using lots of slang, and especially goofy how he poked fun at people for having what he deemed unusual names. So much of it came off as judgmental to me; I don't how much of it was meant in jest because I didn't actually hear it, but I doubt that would make it okay to me if it were in jest.

[skcin]

^ Gotcha. I see what you mean, I didn't realize that he had said all of the problems with the black community were all their own fault.

[GateandGarden]

Originally Posted by skcin

^ Gotcha. I see what you mean, I didn't realize that he had said all of the problems with the black community were all their own fault.

Yeah...I had a printout of the whole thing at one point, and we were debating all of it at work, but I can't find it now. Like I said, he had some good points, but they were overshadowed by the stuff that I found offensive.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

Strand, you and I actually agree on this stuff more than it seems. The "system" stuff. I agree that education is the key. Which is why I find it even more egregious that here are young black women going to college and they still get slammed with a racial insult. That is what I find so bothersome about this whole ordeal.

I know we agree!

As for the slamming - I think Imus meant it as a joke. I do not think he was being mean. Thus, I think the two weeks along with the apology and the metting is cool.

I think it would have been a far better move for the girls in college to have sent him a letter signed by all detailing their accomplishments, past, etc. I think their message would get across better that way than through the mouth of Rev. Al, who most people think is full of bull, which is mostly misguided IMO.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I think we all agree on that part.

However, people need to remember that the civil rights "movement" really only got started (implementation-wise) in the late 1960's. I think it's going to take a little bit longer than 40 years to reverse 300+ years of actively and doggedly holding back an entire segment of the population from life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Huge strides have been made

But, my point is that punsihing white people for slavery in this day and age is not the right route to go. Two wrongs do not make a right IMO. Also, the current welfare system perpetuates fraud and the need to think you have to work for a living. I know not all people on welfare are not like that, but many are. That needs to be fixed no matter how many slaves my great great great great grandfather owned

But, the D's will never allow welfare reform because they need the black vote to win. ANd, the R's will never allow welfare reform because they need to point to the lazy black people (their words) to win the white vote. Such is politics and that to me is pathetic.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think it would have been a far better move for the girls in college to have sent him a letter signed by all detailing their accomplishments, past, etc. I think their message would get across better that way than through the mouth of Rev. Al, who most people think is full of bull, which is mostly misguided IMO.

I don't think the team had much of a say about Sharpton/Jackson. Those guys are going to do their thing no matter what. I'm not a big fan of them anymore (used to be), but it's not my community so I don't feel like I can decide who their leaders should be.

I thought the team did a beautiful job at the press conference. I know it was long, but it was really powerful and explained how personally hurtful the comments were. It was full of grace and didn't get into the whole demand for Imus to be fired. I'm really impressed with them, especially their coach.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

. . . but I'd sing a different tune in reference to some of your comments.

Then you'd be incorrect.

I have specifically said it is not just a black problem and certainly not all black and other people on welfare are keen on staying on it.

I also said that until black people stop isuing the word "nigger" in reference to themselves, the word will get perpetuated.

If I said anything different to the point where you could call me a racist, which I define as someone who hates or discrimmintates based on race, let's see it.

Otherwise, I'll thank you in advance not to call me a racist.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by skcin

^ Gotcha. I see what you mean, I didn't realize that he had said all of the problems with the black community were all their own fault.

I think he is accurate in that many of the problems (violence, drugs, unwanted pregancies, etc. ) are the fault of the black community. I think the kids see their parents engaing in that behaviour and think it is okay - again this is not all balck people.

I think education is the way out. Well, that and two cops on every corner in the projects.

To be fair, many black people feel like the system is stacked against them, so why not commit a crime. They are correct to a point about the system. However, their own actions perpetuate that system. It is a never ending cycle - that is what Bill C. was saying IMO. So, they have to be willing to stop the bad behav. before they will get better. And -- this logic applies to poor people of al races too, as certainly they are oppressed by society.

In the end, no one owes you (general) a damn thing other than basic human courtesy. You have to go out and get it for yourself. This why I think welfare should be based on poverty, not race. I think welfare should be geared more toward the rec. looking for work. But, saying that in public is the same as saying I hate black people - at least as far as politicians go.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

I don't think the team had much of a say about Sharpton/Jackson. Those guys are going to do their thing no matter what. I'm not a big fan of them anymore (used to be), but it's not my community so I don't feel like I can decide who their leaders should be.

I thought the team did a beautiful job at the press conference. I know it was long, but it was really powerful and explained how personally hurtful the comments were. It was full of grace and didn't get into the whole demand for Imus to be fired. I'm really impressed with them, especially their coach.

Yea - she was eloquent. But, I have a five minute rule on speeches

[estranged4life]

Man, Y'all should live here in Oklahoma, you'd see some racist **** (Yes, some still burn crosses in yards here - stupid I know).

Right now, the latest controversy is still the Freedman vs.the Cherokee Nation. Now the Oklahoma Black Caucus is calling for its members to not vote for ANY Democrat in upcoming elections since the Democratic Gov.Brad Henry & his staff members, had a luncheon with the Cherokee Prinicipal Chief Chad Smith days after the election was held to decide if the Freedman would be removed from the tribe (It passed by 76%).

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Huge strides have been made

Not nearly enough, IMO.

But, my point is that punsihing white people for slavery in this day and age is not the right route to go. Two wrongs do not make a right IMO.

I never said, nor inferred, that "whites need to be punished". I think there is a lot more time needed to repair the damage that happened, that's all. It's very naive for anyone in 2007 to think that "everything is okay now" and that there is a level playing field for black Americans. Whether or not the current solutions have merit is a different conversation and the two are not necessarily related.

Also, the current welfare system perpetuates fraud and the need to think you have to work for a living. I know not all people on welfare are not like that, but many are. That needs to be fixed no matter how many slaves my great great great great grandfather owned

Apples and oranges.

The current tax system perpetuates fraud and those with a lot of money need to understand that they shouldn't try to rip off the government. I know not all wealthy people are not like that, but many are. That needs to be fixed no matter how many slaves your great, great, great, great, grandfather owned .

[strandinthewind]

Oh - I agree the current tax system is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. I think people who make under $30,000 a year should pay no Fed Income Tax and then the scale should slide up to where people making $40,000 pay 15% with no deductions. We would be the richest nation in the world if we did that. Well, that and cut out the BS spending. I think many more people would not mind paying 30% of their income if they thought the govt. was not perpetuating poverty with that money, buying $45 screws, paying Halliburton exec bonuses, etc.

But, that has nothing to do with the generations of black people on welfare. It exists - I know because I have seen it with my own peepers. I get that it is not all black people and probably not even most (and other races certainly do it too) - but even one family of any race is too much. That money could be feeding someone who deserves it based on poverty, not race. Yet, many consider me a racist for saying that. How what I am proposing is unfair, I will never know?

As for the strides, when is it enough? When are white people done paying. I say paying because minority contracts are favored even if the cost is more and the workmanship shoddy. How is that fair or paying anyone back or compensating anything?

As for racism, I think it is very difficult to gevern what people think. I think education (public and at home) is the key. I agree that will take many more decades, which I suggest would be lessened if the black community was perceived as far less violent and willing to help themselves. Right or wrong, that is how most people (including many black people I know who got out of the gehetto) perceive ghetto life. Until that changes, all the favorite treatment of minority businesses based on black history is only going to cause resentment. How could it not.

[markolas]

Ed Schultz (whom I like less every time I listen to him) was going on and on and on about this today. Imus' comments were obviously meant in jest and were not some racist tirade. I'm a little taken aback (and I probably shouldn't be) by the reaction of Sharpton, et al. You can't create a culture where this kind of language is acceptable and then get this up in arms when someone says something like what Imus said.

This is how kids of all races talk. "Whassup my niggaz," "I'm gonna slap that bitch-ass ho," etc. They do it because it's hip, and that's why Imus did it - he thought he was being hip or cute or whatever. Sharpton and Jackson need to direct their ire at the culture, not at Don Imus.

As far as income tax goes, $30,000 a year is nothing. If you took 15% of that out of my check, I could live on it but it would be a very bare-bones lifestyle I'd be living. And I'm just talking about supporting myself. If I had any dependents to support, it would be impossible. How about no income tax for anyone who makes less than $100k, and then taking 25% of those who make $100k or more?

[strandinthewind]

No human being should ever have to pay 25% of what they make so some a$$hole in D.C. can line his pockets and pockets of his cronies. And - it would not be 15% at 30K -- it would adjust from say 30-40K so that the minute you hit 30,500 you were not taxed at 15% - thus making less than 30,000 a year.

And, I will never agree that only people who make 100,000 a year or more should be taxed. To me, that is punitive.

Actually, I think the so called fair tax is much fairer than any percentage of income. That way, every hooker, stipper, waiter, etc. on mostly cash basis has to pay their fair share. I know strippers who make over $200,000 a year in cash. They pay no or very little tax. How fukced up is that.

Anyway, here is a link to the so called fair tax, which is really a retail sales tax with a few twists to help out the poor.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

I know I am fighting a losing battle here though because almost everyone here think that if you make $100,000 a year or more, you should pay half of that to help the so called poor by giving the money to the oh so efficient govt. and entrusting them to see that said so called poor get it (said tongue in cheek)

As for Imus, I agree. I think he thought he was being hip and he crossed that white people do as I say but not as I do line. Personally, I think he should have been smarter than that.