Enough of their BS

[skcin]

Originally Posted by madformac

Why do you feel like that Paula? How do you know. Their conflicts have been localised and no threat to the western world. Iraq were no threat. Why is it all of a sudden attention has turned to Iran? Why not a few years back?

America have used nuclear weapons before. How do you know they won't again? The UK are the only nation to have ever used a nuclear submarine in anger. Could they again? sure..

Most of the problem lies in education. And religous tolerance from both sides. Iran could use weapons of mass destruction but it would be counter productive. To have them is not. But its hidden in all the stories. The intelligence communities will just tell you the stuff I am. Its all normal posturing. ten years back everybody was worried about China having nuclear weapons. "Don't trust the Chinese, they will launch an attack on America".. Well now China is the fastest growing economy in the world. And America takes them seriously.

I don't know. And neither do you. That's my point. It's all way too unpredictable.

What I do feel, is that the U.S. is not the big bad superpower that it once was, and that other nations (in the Middle East and elsewhre) are becoming more & more resentful of the fact that what we say goes. Who the hell are we to tell every other country what they can & can't do? If I were them, I'd hate the U.S. government too (esp. since Bush has made things so much worse.) And many of them will eventually hate the American people - those who don't hate us already. I know that the conflicts were limited to the Middle East - but we had to bust in there & start kicking ass & taking names & I think it was a huge misstep that we'll pay for dearly.

I understand your comparison with the past (the Cold War, Cuba, China, etc.), but I really feel that this is different. I can't explain how, but it is. People seem to be crazier, less apt to follow the "rules." Instead of "we'll scare them into helping us" I fear they'll say "f*ck them, who the hell are they to tell us what to do, and f*ck their citizens, they don't give a **** about ours" and just randomly attack the U.S. I don't know that this will happen - I hope to God it never does. But that's what I'm afraid of.

[Sarah]

The old days are over. America has a choice. Kick ass, or have ass kicked.

Personally, I prefer to kick ass. But, I know there are a lot of weenies who don't want to kick ass unless theirs personally is kicked. SO, all in all, I gotta say.. I'd rather bomb the bejesus out of them before we get hit than us get hit and then bomb the same amount of bejesus out of them after the fact. Sure, they have families, but uh, we do too. And when it comes to a "you or me" situation, sorry pal, but it's gonna be the "you" that has to go.

Flame me if you want, but I've always thought that we should take care of a certain group of countries all in one swoop, or find a way to completely isolate them so that their violence over religions I could not care one iota about - for OR against - causes the militants to just take each other out. That being said, if their governments want to make weapons that are only ranged to hit each other, that's fine, I don't give a damn as callous as it seems. If they want to make weapons with the range to hit our targets, I give a damn, and will be highly pissed off if we sit around and do nothing about it because we're sissies who can't stand violence unless it's glorified in movies.

[strandinthewind]

Anectdotal evidence from the last 50 or so years demonstrates the Muslim fundamentalists are FAR more willing to die to promote the cause and perpetuate the hatred of the West. Along these lines, I am all for W's promotion of democracy in the Middle East because with that almost always comes free thought and education - at least more so than already exists there now on the whole. Granted W has fukced that up beyond repair - but the idea is sound no matter how he pirated it.

Also, Iran is funding terrorist groups all over the Middle East in an effort to destroy Israel and the West. To me, that is proof enough of their intent.

As for solving the problem, I do not know the answer other than I know that giving them the ability to destroy several hundred thousand people in a second is not the right path to peace

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by skcin

I fear they'll say "f*ck them, who the hell are they to tell us what to do, and f*ck their citizens, they don't give a **** about ours" and just randomly attack the U.S. I don't know that this will happen - I hope to God it never does. But that's what I'm afraid of.

on a recent doctumentary, people in the Middle East HATE the U.S. and not necessarily for the U.S. govt.

Nothing, repeat NOTHING will ever change that until they can accomplish their mission which is complete eradication of the West - and according to those interviewed in this doctumentry it that means death of millions US citizens (What was FUBAR'd in this doctumentary was the footage of radical Muslims wanting the blood of US/Israel citizens - Even as they stood in a conference room at the Myriad Convention Center in downtown OKC.)

I am scared they will attack us? No, I am not...But I wont be surprised to see it happen either - I keep thinking the next attack will make 911 seem like a "paper cut'.

"The difference in this battle is that they (the citizens of the US) are scared of death...We embrace it" - Osama Bin Laden

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

I am scared they will attack us? No, I am not...But I wont be surprised to see it happen either - I keep thinking the next attack will make 911 seem like a "paper cut'.

Simultaneous attacks.. dirty bombs and suitcase nukes.. vulnerable food supply. There are a lot of possibilities. If we don't man-up, we're going to be waves of dead meat.

I'm surprised we haven't already suffered a large scale attack. And I'm double surprised that London hasn't seen even larger attacks.. or other large, vulnerable cities for that matter.

When I see pictures of little kids running around with AK-s, it makes me wonder why we argue about saving lives there. It's obvious to me.. that for the sake of quality of life.. they need an eraser and a do-over.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by Sarah

The old days are over. America has a choice. Kick ass, or have ass kicked.

Personally, I prefer to kick ass. But, I know there are a lot of weenies who don't want to kick ass unless theirs personally is kicked. SO, all in all, I gotta say.. I'd rather bomb the bejesus out of them before we get hit than us get hit and then bomb the same amount of bejesus out of them after the fact. Sure, they have families, but uh, we do too. And when it comes to a "you or me" situation, sorry pal, but it's gonna be the "you" that has to go.

Flame me if you want, but I've always thought that we should take care of a certain group of countries all in one swoop, or find a way to completely isolate them so that their violence over religions I could not care one iota about - for OR against - causes the militants to just take each other out. That being said, if their governments want to make weapons that are only ranged to hit each other, that's fine, I don't give a damn as callous as it seems. If they want to make weapons with the range to hit our targets, I give a damn, and will be highly pissed off if we sit around and do nothing about it because we're sissies who can't stand violence unless it's glorified in movies.

Thats the whole root of the problem. Extreme thinking on both sides. Hate breeds, whatever your choice. Hollywood only glorifies the thinking. Anybody thats been in a real war will tell you its very different.

I'm not going to attack your post although the mindset does seem to be one of the reasons there is a global issue in the first place. The whole "first strike" mentality. There seems to be a thinking that if you get missles off first everything will be ok. If America "wipes out" those countries then it will get hit by Russia, China and who knows who else for a nuclear attack. Which threatens other countries too. Even if Iran doesn't get a missle off which is highly doubtful given the range, speed and distance of attack. What will happen is Iran would take the first strikes after the Iranian missiles were launched. So what does that prove? The end result is the same.

I think half the problem with the hate against America lies in the fact they have attacked and invaded countries without due cause. Vietnam, Cambodia, Libya, Afganistan, Iraq, Iraq (again) to name just a few within the last 35 years. Not a good record. Especially when they haven't technically "won" yet. Thats the cause of the ill feeling I believe. The only time there was a real threat to US security was the Cuban Missle Crisis. Had it not been for Kennedy being a "weenie" as you put it and calling Russia against his advisors judgement then America would not be here today. Nuclear war was inevitable but Kennedy was called a communist for his actions which effectively saved millions of lives because Khruschev would not back down.. If the same thing happens with Iran under the current US administration then you and probably myself too are screwed.

Now poking a big stick at the middle east is not going to work. All it does is inflame the situation. There is a history of Iran falling in and out of favour with the USA. Same with Iraq. Do some research. Don't take my word for it. Hatred of America is only great out there right now due to propaganda and media. Both sides are brainwashed to extreme levels right now. Luckily for the public we have diplomats working on a solution.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

"The difference in this battle is that they (the citizens of the US) are scared of death...We embrace it" - Osama Bin Laden

Which is why America can't win these wars in conventional methods.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by Sarah

Simultaneous attacks.. dirty bombs and suitcase nukes.. vulnerable food supply. There are a lot of possibilities. If we don't man-up, we're going to be waves of dead meat.

there was a recent doctumentary on DiscoveryTimes Channel about the 'father' of the first "Muslim' created nuclear bomb (That was detonated in Pakistan) who freely gave his tips to countries that HATE the US. He even boasts of it on this doctumentary and he has no conscience if a bomb would be used a major US city.

Now that is more of a problem than an attack on a 911 scale.


Another interesting thing occurred in this area of SW Oklahoma that I live in - not long before the 911 attack there were reports of 'suspicious' people wanting to learn how to fly a 'crop duster', how to fill its tanks and how to discharge it cargo, they werent interested in all the major details it takes to become a crop duster pilot for a living (As many do in this area) such as securing ones pilots license, maintaining their plane, figuring out which chemical works best on a specific crop, etc. - so these 'suspicious' people were denied that training.

Kinda ironic that about the same times these reports happened, one of the WTC pilots, the mastermind ______ Atta (Cannot remember his first name) was pulled over by OHP on highway 152 for speeding. That fact came to light days after 911 - Highway 152 in this area is known for it multitude of crop duster operations.




Personally, I think terrorists are behind "American Idol" because they want to make everyone in the West tonedeaf & braindead from listening to these "wanna-be-rockstar-ass-pop-tarts"

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by madformac

Which is why America can't win these wars in conventional methods.

so true.



It's funny, the first doctumentary I mentioned ("The Schematics of Hate") had some "extremists" who stated they cannot wait til America withdraws its troops for Iraq, Because they can claim that as "a victory and gather more souls for the ji-had in the celebratory fashion of defeating yet another "world power" as they did in Afghanistan."

[madformac]

Originally Posted by Sarah

When I see pictures of little kids running around with AK-s, it makes me wonder why we argue about saving lives there. It's obvious to me.. that for the sake of quality of life..

OK this will be my last insight before I move on..

Where do these kids get their weapons? AK-47s are Russian made and exported. IMW (Izhevsk Mechanical Works) of Russia own the patent and all supplies have to be approved by the Russian government before being exported. Variants on the original design are produced in China, Germany, Noth Korea and Iraq to name the biggest suppliers. So Iran and the children of Iran that "run around with guns" have to get them through one of these countries in principle.

Russia are a G8 country and have trade relations with the USA, as do China and Germany, two other members. All wealthy countries. North Korea are a rogue state however are now coming to the table diplomatically due to America backing down (weenies right?). Iraqi weapons facilities are now under American control.

Its conceivable that the weapons Iran have right now were funded by America too. Interesting thought huh?

Iranian Plutonium and Uranium were alledgedly Russian exports too, albeit through North Korea. So it would Seem Russia are your enemy not Iran. But then Russia can't be can they? Because they are now a trade nation...

Originally Posted by Sarah

they need an eraser and a do-over.

I hope for your sake you are joking. You don't know who reads these boards or whose computers are data logging key words..

[madformac]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Another interesting thing occurred in this area of SW Oklahoma that I live in - not long before the 911 attack there were reports of 'suspicious' people wanting to learn how to fly a 'crop duster', how to fill its tanks and how to discharge it cargo, they werent interested in all the major details it takes to become a crop duster pilot for a living (As many do in this area) such as securing ones pilots license, maintaining their plane, figuring out which chemical works best on a specific crop, etc. - so these 'suspicious' people were denied that training.

Its very easy for anybody, regardless of origin to "launch" a weapons attack.
The danger of inciting terrorists is that they will do it with whatever they can get their hands on. There are many groups within the US and UK that I'm sure are planning such things. Its impossible to stop them all and the more conflict, the more the attacks. MI5 and SIS are doing all they can over here but I don't believe its enough..

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Personally, I think terrorists are behind "American Idol" because they want to make everyone in the West tonedeaf & braindead from listening to these "wanna-be-rockstar-ass-pop-tarts"

Yes, Simon Cowell is a Mossad agent. Why kill Americans with bombs when you can use tragically untalented wannabes instead. Much bigger target too..

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by madformac

I hope for your sake you are joking. You don't know who reads these boards or whose computers are data logging key words..

I hope their computers log the following data:


I'm a terrorist...A musical terrorist that is!!!

Brian "Derka, derka, Allama Jihad, derka, derka" j.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by madformac

OK this will be my last insight before I move on..

Listen. I'm not going to talk to you point by point, because you can't change the way I feel.

I come from a military family, so I would appreciate you not assuming that I haven't talked to anyone who has really been in a war. And please. I am educated.

Current situation aside for one moment, I'd like to know how you suppose that the North Vietnamese practically enslaving the South Vietnamese in concentration-camp-like conditions is not due cause. Just because they aren't our people? There are people who need someone else to stick up for them.

Hatemonger, extreme thinking, whatever; America has means and damn-well should watch out for the "least of these" in the world. I feel sorry for the people in these countries. I truly, truly do. Your talk about data logs and all that does not scare me. I have nothing to hide. Don't expect me to shut up about how I feel any time soon - I don't work that way.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by madformac

There are many groups within the US and UK that I'm sure are planning such things.

Tim McVeigh proved that in my backyard by killing 168 fellow Oklahomans in the Murrah Building (I know it's 169 but the severed leg that was found in camo pants was never matched with any of the other dead...)

Originally Posted by madformac

Yes, Simon Cowell is a Mossad agent. Why kill Americans with bombs when you can use tragically untalented wannabes instead. Much bigger target too..

Dont insult the Mossad with Simon "Produces no talent EVER" Cowell - they may booby-trap yer Pink Floyd collection

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Tim McVeigh proved that in my backyard by killing 168 fellow Oklahomans in the Murrah Building (I know it's 169 but the severed leg that was found in camo pants was never matched with any of the other dead...)

Homegrowns are just as scary to me. And of course, we have native citizens on Al-Jazeera talking about spilling our blood. Blahblahblah. They need to be dealt with. That's all I'm sayin'.