67-year-old Spaniard gives birth to twins

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Sick Sad World. Oh Daria.

Yeah...hell my grandma could barely keep up with me in her 50s. A woman in her upper 60s having TWO babies is just not right. Get a poodle or a Pommeranian or something....don't have a baby!!!

i'm glad you got the daria reference.

actually, if you're really old, you probably shouldn't get a pomeranian either ... you've seen clyde bruckman, right?

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i'm glad you got the daria reference.

actually, if you're really old, you probably shouldn't get a pomeranian either ... you've seen clyde bruckman, right?

Ok...good point. And at her age that dog may well outlive her.

Just to clarify I'm not against invitro all together - some friends of mine (lesbian couple) recently did it -and they're amazing amazing parents. They're also young enough to make it to their kid's college graduation....

But yeah - in cases like this medical science just goes to far IMO.

[EnchantedStorms]

Originally Posted by sparky

If you're infertile, it's probably for a reason, folks. Leave it alone already.

Do you have a clue how offensive and hurtful this statement may be to some people? Probably not, considering just how ignorant it was.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by EnchantedStorms

Do you have a clue how offensive and hurtful this statement may be to some people? Probably not, considering just how ignorant it was.

i don't think it's ignorant. if people are having difficulty conceiving, perhaps it is to prevent them from passing on unhealthy genes. that doesn't mean they shouldn't become parents through adoption, just that fertility treatments may not be the best choice.

[EnchantedStorms]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i don't think it's ignorant. if people are having difficulty conceiving, perhaps it is to prevent them from passing on unhealthy genes. that doesn't mean they shouldn't become parents through adoption, just that fertility treatments may not be the best choice.

Unhealthy genes?? Truly, that is such an uninformed "opinion" on something you (and several other people here and all over this world) clearly do not have a clue about. Oh well. I'll take a wild guess though, and say that my (perfectly healthy) 7 month old daughter will probably disagree with you someday. I can assure you she was, in fact, my "best choice".

[sparky]

Originally Posted by EnchantedStorms

Do you have a clue how offensive and hurtful this statement may be to some people? Probably not, considering just how ignorant it was.

If you wanna be offended or hurt, you're going to be. How could I hurt or offend you ? You don't even know me. WTF does my opinion matter to you? Or how could it possibly impact your feelings?

I stand by the statement. I've known women and men who had fertility problems and went ahead and spent the hundred grand and had terrific problems with the pregnancies and/or children. So it isn't ignorant. My belief is based on facts I've seen. I think maybe the body is trying to tell people something if it is that hard to have kids. Some people aren't meant to procreate. I'm not meant to be pro basketball player. I'm 5'9" and have short legs. I'm also not meant to be a distance runner. Or a rocket scientist - I'm bad at math. But I have other gifts. Nature isn't stupid. We all have our purposes and abilities. And limitations.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by EnchantedStorms

Unhealthy genes?? Truly, that is such an uninformed "opinion" on something you (and several other people here and all over this world) clearly do not have a clue about. Oh well. I'll take a wild guess though, and say that my (perfectly healthy) 7 month old daughter will probably disagree with you someday. I can assure you she was, in fact, my "best choice".

well all i can say is i'm sorry if you took what i said personally, as that clearly that wasn't my intent. i wasn't speaking to your situation, i was speaking generally. and i still agree with sparky.

[EnchantedStorms]

Originally Posted by sparky

If you wanna be offended or hurt, you're going to be. How could I hurt or offend you ? You don't even know me. WTF does my opinion matter to you? Or how could it possibly impact your feelings?

I stand by the statement. I've known women and men who had fertility problems and went ahead and spent the hundred grand and had terrific problems with the pregnancies and/or children. So it isn't ignorant. My belief is based on facts I've seen. I think maybe the body is trying to tell people something if it is that hard to have kids. Some people aren't meant to procreate. I'm not meant to be pro basketball player. I'm 5'9" and have short legs. I'm also not meant to be a distance runner. Or a rocket scientist - I'm bad at math. But I have other gifts. Nature isn't stupid. We all have our purposes and abilities. And limitations.

Did I say it offended or hurt *me*? Nope. It doesn't, because I've thicker skin than that. "Knowing you" really doesn't have anything to do with what you posted, does it? I'm confused by that part. It's ignorant when you are obviously uninformed--whether you've witnessed someone else going through it or not. Walk in their actual shoes and then come post. Who are you to decide which person is meant to procreate? Shall I post a picture of my daughter? All I have to do is look at her to know that the sky is the limit.

[EnchantedStorms]

Originally Posted by carrie721

well all i can say is i'm sorry if you took what i said personally, as that clearly that wasn't my intent. i wasn't speaking to your situation, i was speaking generally. and i still agree with sparky.

What's the difference in my situation and "generally" when they're the same? But no, I really didn't take it personally...it's just that for a board full of people that claim to be so informed about so many things, it struck me as a little ironic to see such ignorant posts.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by EnchantedStorms

Did I say it offended or hurt *me*? Nope.

Wasn't sure who you were talking about then.

It doesn't, because I've thicker skin than that. "Knowing you" really doesn't have anything to do with what you posted, does it? I'm confused by that part.

I am just puzzled by the idea that people could find the utterings of a stranger offensive or hurtful.

It's ignorant when you are obviously uninformed--whether you've witnessed someone else going through it or not.

Well, that would be my information, wouldn't it?
My firsthand knowledge?
The suffering I saw wasn't my imagination.

Walk in their actual shoes and then come post. Who are you to decide which person is meant to procreate?

I can't do that because I don't want kids and as far as I know, am not infertile. Also I have no emotional or intellectual investment in passing on my genes. And I am not the one to say who should procreate or not. I didn't
make it hard for anyone. Biology did.

Shall I post a picture of my daughter?

Knock yourself out!

All I have to do is look at her to know that the sky is the limit.

Meaning what, exactly? That medicine is advanced?

Good for you that you had a kid. That's great.
Doesn't change my opinion about the subject, but cigars all around.

[BlackWidow]

thread.takes.a.miserable.turn.

[jannieC]

As someone who underwent four (incredibly painful) years of fertility treatment, I don't find the above statement as hurtful. Only because I've heard it all. (I've heard that if GOD wanted me to have a baby, I could just pray about it and it would happen- my answer to that was that God created brilliant doctors and scientists who are able to provide me with the medicines and procedures to get pregnant) There isn't a thing wrong with my genes, or my husband's. I just have faulty reproductive organs due to the greed of a drug company.

My mother was given a drug during her pregnancy with me that made it very difficult for me to conceive. We had numerous intrauterine inseminations and then two in-vitros. Both in-vitros resulted in ectopic pregnancies- which in turn resulted in the loss of my fallopian tubes. No worries of this girl having babies now! During those years, I would have given anything to give up and adopt. The fertility treatments were mostly covered by insurance. Adoption is not. People have this idea that there are all these babies waiting to be adopted; just go get one! Unfortunately, I don't have a spare $20 thousand dollars sitting around for that.

Unless you've gone through the pain of not being able to have a child (either biologically or through adoption) it's probably best not to make blanket statements about it. I envy people who have no desire to have children- I could have saved myself a lot of heartache if I had felt that way.

Anyway, we are going to try and adopt this year. We have to have a sit down with the in-laws and see if they will help us with a loan to be able to do this. I find it very hard to believe that this 67 year old woman was inseminated with her own embryo. It had to have been the eggs of another woman. It's just crazy and sick- I hope she has some younger relatives who will take over the raising of these twins.

[BlackWidow]

Originally Posted by jannieC

As someone who underwent four (incredibly painful) years of fertility treatment, I don't find the above statement as hurtful. Only because I've heard it all. (I've heard that if GOD wanted me to have a baby, I could just pray about it and it would happen- my answer to that was that God created brilliant doctors and scientists who are able to provide me with the medicines and procedures to get pregnant) There isn't a thing wrong with my genes, or my husband's. I just have faulty reproductive organs due to the greed of a drug company.

My mother was given a drug during her pregnancy with me that made it very difficult for me to conceive. We had numerous intrauterine inseminations and then two in-vitros. Both in-vitros resulted in ectopic pregnancies- which in turn resulted in the loss of my fallopian tubes. No worries of this girl having babies now! During those years, I would have given anything to give up and adopt. The fertility treatments were mostly covered by insurance. Adoption is not. People have this idea that there are all these babies waiting to be adopted; just go get one! Unfortunately, I don't have a spare $20 thousand dollars sitting around for that.

Unless you've gone through the pain of not being able to have a child (either biologically or through adoption) it's probably best not to make blanket statements about it. I envy people who have no desire to have children- I could have saved myself a lot of heartache if I had felt that way.

Anyway, we are going to try and adopt this year. We have to have a sit down with the in-laws and see if they will help us with a loan to be able to do this. I find it very hard to believe that this 67 year old woman was inseminated with her own embryo. It had to have been the eggs of another woman. It's just crazy and sick- I hope she has some younger relatives who will take over the raising of these twins.

Tom & I may adopt this year too...

[sasja]

I agree on the ridiculousness of the woman's situation. The one in the original post. But I also think if we leave women the right to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy as science now safely permits, we also need to leave her the right to HAVE them, even if to us the circumstances seem ridiculous, as science now safely permits.
And we do not know her circumstances. She may have a slew of family members lined up for childcare in the event that, or when she needs help.

In any event. My own story

(Warning: lots of info, don't read if you don't want!)
I always thought I never wanted children.
I worked in child Psychiatry and Juvenile Forensics for over 15 years. That was enough to "be sure" about that. And then I also always thought I would foster and that the world was over-populated. All that.

Then, I met my now husband.
And we decided to just see what would happen. For 2 and a half years, nothing. We didn't really think about it actually.
Then, suddenly, I became pregnant. I was 39, my husband 26.
We lost that baby at 10 weeks. We went on to have three more losses. By that time, we wanted a child more than anything.

You have NO idea what pregnancy hormones do to the brain. I suddenly wanted a child more than anything in the world.

We were referred to a Reproductive Endocrinologist, and our son Quinlan, healthy and PERFECT, is the result of an IVF cycle. We lost his twin at twelve weeks.
He is the very best thing I ever quested for.
We became pregnant, naturally, again when he was 6 months, and lost that baby as well. We are currently pregnant again, finally another healthy baby again. Our second son is due in Feb.
As I am now almost 43, obviously this is it. Thankfully. I wish no one the heartache of losing babies.

I just wished to illustrate how things can change in life, and how it's really not anyone's place to judge... Of course you can have opinions, but, personal situations and choices and circumstances are always, well, that: personal and unique.

I hope she made a responsible plan for her children.
By the way, fostering and adopting are not very easy procedures or life decisions either I think.

I love our son dearly.

Sasja

[SuzeQuze]

I suddenly feel very young to have not had children yet.