Rosie's ching-chong comments

[sparky]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

I'm sorry that you had this very unpleasant exchange. What they said was really, really uncalled for. However... in the spectrum of "racial epithets," that registers, very, very low. It's a flesh wound. It's almost like calling someone a "rich bitch" or a "yuppie." It's a dig at you, but it's also indirectly saying that you are in a better position in life than they are. Again, it's the power dynamic that exists.

I'm glad you think it was a flesh wound. It wasn't that big of a deal, no. **** happens to people. I've had worse days. However, if you could have seen the sneers on their faces, their balled up fists, and the way they both stepped forward like for all the world they were gonna beat the f*ck out of me because I'm white, you might not dismiss it so quickly. If it had been dark, and we had been in the parking lot and not the store, I am pretty sure I would have had a fight on my hands.

You know all too well that Mexicans in this country, legal or not, are all perceived to be illegal, uneducated leeches on society, when, if anything, the U.S. today cannot function without them. Accordingly, even in this day and age, it almost seems acceptable to display overt signs of racism against Mexicans. When the difficult issue of Mexican immigration comes up, it seems that everybody's flaming crosses come right out of the closet... and it's okay.

Yeah, it couldn't function with certain people making such a large profit, and prices being low because people accept slave wages. And I couldn't rail about people who have 7 kids and can't afford to support two. But that's another thread!

The Mexican guys are angry at those who hold power in America (the whites), the ones who have the biggest houses and the biggest cars (the whites), and the regime that wants to criminalize them.

No one needs to criminalize them. The law already does that. The laws aren't new.

Unfortunately you happened to be a whipping post for some of their frustration. I'm not saying it was acceptable or appropriate... only understandable.

I'm wondering if you have gone to this trouble to think out and find understandable the racist **** you have had to go through.
Just curious.

[irishgrl]

Let us not forget that Imperial China considered any Non-Chinese "barbarians"...as did the Greeks, and many other cultures. This social phenomenon of "us" versus "them" is not new by any means.

Reverse discrimination is no less discrimination and no less painful.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by sparky

Yeah, it couldn't function with certain people making such a large profit, and prices being low because people accept slave wages. And I couldn't rail about people who have 7 kids and can't afford to support two. But that's another thread!

The whole Mexican immigration issue is very complicated and I am not sure which side of the issue I am on. Yes, Mexican workers are exploited to benefit The Man. And yes, prices for goods, merchandise and services are kept low artificially because some Mexicans are willing to work longer and harder for less money. But what are the alternatives? In this day and age it does seem to me that there are menial jobs that native-born, English speaking people would refuse to do; they would take unemployment or welfare before doing these kinds of jobs. So who is going to do these jobs when the country's entitlement system incentivizes U.S. citizens to not work? Illegals. Okay... alternatively, we could unionize all of these jobs and every maid, janitor, fruit picker and dishwasher will be paid $35 an hour plus full healthcare, pensions and early retirement so that these jobs would be more appealing to American citizens. Then the cost of a happy meal at McDonalds would be $15. An apple would cost $5. The things we take for granted now would become extremely expensive, which means that our standards of living would go down tremendously. As a society, do we really want this?

Deep down, I do wish all people, especially those with the most laborious jobs, would earn a decent living wage. But that is a Utopian, socialist idyll that is somewhat at odds with the American psyche, which is about free markets, capitalism, and trickle-down economics. On the other hand... we all enjoy, perhaps artificially, great qualities of life on the backs of cheap/illegal labor, whether we realize it or are willing to admit it or not. As someone currently building a house, this goes through my mind a lot. It's definitely a moral dilemma... I try to do my part to ensure that the contractors are receiving a decent wage... but sometimes that's out of my control.

Originally Posted by sparky

I'm wondering if you have gone to this trouble to think out and find understandable the racist **** you have had to go through.
Just curious.

I think the feeling of superiority is an inherent part of human nature. I don't think babies come out of the womb feeling humble, restrained and grateful. They scream when they're hungry, scream when they've soiled themselves, scream when they get a boo-boo. Humility and respect for others is a learned behavior. Unfortunately so is racism and the feeling of racial superiority. And for whatever reason, this whole notion of "America is #1" has become synonymous with "Whites are #1." It seems ironic that the most ardent flag-waving "patriots" are usually the ones with the confederate flag stickers on their bumpers. Patriotism in this country less about the fact that we are a melting pot of immigrants as it is about having the firepower to kick the ass of any country that tries to mess with our "American way of life."

That being said, I think for many Americans, Asians = easy target because they don't fight back. Especially when you are in an area that is pretty much all-white. It's an easy opportunity for people to feel better about themselves at the expense of others. In other words, "thank goodness I'm American, unlike you," which is also along the lines of "why don't you go back to your own country." I've actually been told this! Of course it's easy for me to process this in hindsight and to feel pity for the idiots who would say and do such things (especially since their parents were probably even bigger idiots). But when you are outnumbered and backed up against a wall and you don't know any better, it's not so easy to be forgiving.

More recently, I've noticed that the worst perpetrators of the whole "ching chong" thing have been black. I honestly have no idea why this is the case. Perhaps it's a way of saying "you are the new n***ers in this country."

Okay... time to lighten up!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Let us not forget that Imperial China considered any Non-Chinese "barbarians"...as did the Greeks, and many other cultures. This social phenomenon of "us" versus "them" is not new by any means.

Reverse discrimination is no less discrimination and no less painful.

Japan is the most racist nation of them all! Even to this day, racism against Koreans is not only out in the open, it is actively encouraged. This all ties back to the imperial Japanese occupation of Korea many, many years ago.

Still, this does not mean that Japanese people should be given a taste of their own medicine in the U.S. Two Wongs don't make a White.

I know... bad joke.

[mikeschmike]

Two Wongs don't make a White.

So this is okay but Rosie's ching chong comments are racist? See, you talk about this issue enough and sooner or later you're going to contradict yourself.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by mikeschmike

So this is okay but Rosie's ching chong comments are racist? See, you talk about this issue enough and sooner or later you're going to contradict yourself.

He's been clear that being of Asian descent gives him latitude to make these kinds of jokes.

I'm still stuck on the fact that white people apparently say the N word in some kind of non-harmful way, like "N word, please". While I get it isn't being used in an intentionally harmful way, I just can't see why any white person would even want to say that word. I kind of don't get why black people use it either, but it's not my community and I don't pretend to know what they should/shouldn't do.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Anyway... can you blame me for getting my digs at him after the horrendous way he singled me out?

Nope. It's just that it's hypocritical for you to call someone "white trash" when you're making an argument for racial sensitivity. It's like the pot calling the kettle black, get it?

I also find it quite alarming that some people hold the notion that there is no such thing as descrimination against white people. Poor whites who live in under-developed, and/or poor socio-economic conditions (or who come from such a background) are indeed descriminated against and called such wonderfully socially accepted (from the climate around here anyway) names as "trailer trash," and "white trash." Some also seem to be under the impression that these groups are not oppressed. Sure they are, it's just not racial oppression, so much as it's socio-economic, and in some instances, ethnic. Why is it so hard to wrap one's brain around that? It exists, now quit back-peddling with ludicrous arguments about how white people can't be oppressed and/or descriminated against. It's just not true!

[skcin]

Originally Posted by michelle2677

I use "n*gga" all the time. (which oddly enough I think is different than "N*gger".) But it is only used like you said "n*gga please" ....but I use cracka and honkey too..so...
My father is very racist. They are divorced and in the 8th grade my best friend was black and she was not even allowed to come over My mother on the other hand-brought me up right and thankfully for her I see people for who they are, not the color of their skin.

Do you use that term around black people? If so, how do they react?

My dad is pretty racist. Which I find both sad and amusing since he is an immigrant. I like to point that out to him "hey dad, don't forget, you're a minority too!" He doesn't necessarily hate based on skin color, but he does judge.

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

They've let up in the last few years- but for older generations I guess it's hard to let go of the old notions....thankfully they did NOT pass down any racial prejudices to their kids - and therefore me and my cousins didn't get any passed down to us

My niece is dating a black guy right now. She refuses to tell her dad, even though everyone else in the fam knows & doesn't have issues with it. Well, I'm sure some of them have issues, but nobody's disowning her or anything. It makes me sad that people my age (and by my age, I guess I mean 40 & younger...) have race issues.

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

The Mexican guys are angry at those who hold power in America (the whites), the ones who have the biggest houses and the biggest cars (the whites), and the regime that wants to criminalize them. Unfortunately you happened to be a whipping post for some of their frustration. I'm not saying it was acceptable or appropriate... only understandable.

Personally, I agree with you that no term is that derogatory towards whites. The worst I've been called is a "white bitch." Was I a little upset? Of course. But I can deal with 1 or 2 isolated incidents.

BUT - your last observation seems to say "well, it wasn't cool but I can see why they wanted to beat the sh*t out of you." I have a problem with this, because if that's the case it could be applied to all situations. Like, if black people robbed my house it would be understandable for me to hate all blacks & call them n*ggers? A lot of people defend their views with stuff like this - "well, this happened to me, so it's OK." And I don't think it is.

Originally Posted by markolas

I've never heard that. Members of my family used the "n" word quite liberally, and it was clear to me that it applied to all black people.

Exactly. The people I know that say that word (which I honest to God cannot bring myself to utter, even in a discussion like this) say it to demean. They aren't saying "you're a poor uneducated black person." They're saying "you are an inferior human being." They're saying "I am better than you and you are beneath me simply because I am white." I know what the word itself actually means, but that's not how it's most often used.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

It's like the pot calling the kettle black, get it?

Well, Pot's obviously a racist bastard.



Sorry, just trying to make light of a heavy situation.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by skcin

Well, Pot's obviously a racist bastard.

Which Pot?

Pol Pot ?

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Thanks, you just reminded me that I had the same question earlier, but didn't want to google it at work for fear breasts would pop up or something...

HEre's what I found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_twins

rish twins is a slang term that refers to siblings born 9 to 12 months apart - usually in the same calendar year, or who are in the same class in school. It references a perception about families of Irish Catholics who may not use birth control (and thus may have children in quicker succession), but it is often used endearingly by the families of the "twins" themselves.

Yeah, I have cousins that are Irish twins and they do not find that offensive.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by michelle2677

I'm sorry i dont have time to read through this entire thread. As for the original post-you really have to pick your battles. People say all the time that kentuckians are stupid rednecks and because of our accents sound unintelligent and have....less than average oral hygiene skills its a joke. I get it. Move on. Now if someone attacks me personally ? Its on

It's different though because no one ever locked up your ancestors for their lack of intelligence or oral hygiene.

[skcin]

Originally Posted by sparky

Which Pot?

Pol Pot ?

No. Stock Pot.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Oh geez... I think I'm going to start a race war on the Ledge even though it is not my intention. All I can say is that:

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

And this is hardly an original concept. I believe it was Spike Lee who got into some hot water by stating his opinion about this in the media many years ago... and it was largely dismissed by the (mostly white) media.

But I happen to believe it is true. And it's hard to make this point without sounding like some kind of white-hating radical activist, which I am not (hullo, music does not get any "whiter" than Fleetwood Mac ). It's just that in the western world, caucasians are in a position of dominance- culturally, economically, politically, etc. This means that they are not exactly in a position of being persecuted, marginalized, criminalized or otherwise at a disadvantage in life because of the color of their skin or the language that they speak. So yes, I do realize that there are instances in largely ethnic neighborhoods where whites are technically in the minority. And I do realize that there are white stereotypes perpetrated in the media, e.g., that straight white boys can't dance, all white girls talk like Valley Girls, etc. But this is not the same as calling black people the "n" word or calling Asians "slanty eyes" or, again doing the "ching chong" thing. Historically, those derogatory terms came from a much darker place- they were a means of putting people of color down in their place- basically to remind them that they were different and were not equal to the (superior) whites. During the last World War, the Asian stereotypes were put out in the war propaganda to fuel the American zeitgeist against the Japanese (and, of course, to the vast majority of Americans, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. are all the same ) Conversely, there are no such derogatory terms in our language today that imply that [my race] is superior to caucasians, and caucasians are nothing but lowly _______. It's just not possible; caucasians control every aspect of western society. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong... it's just the way it is. Therefore, in my own estimation, it seems that any sort of derogatory terms about white people are either a) done in jest b) made up by one group of white people to feel superior to another group of white people, e.g., redneck, or c) crafted as an angry response to being oppressed, e.g., Jesse Jackson calling NYC "Himeytown."

Yes, it does sound like a double standard. But this is why it has been socially acceptable for black people to use the "n" word but totally forbidden for white people to use it. Accordingly, to a large degree, I have carte blanche to poke fun at Asian stereotypes, and trust me, I do (along with Margaret Cho, Amy Tan, etc.)! But for whites to do that... not such a good thing. In general, any time you are in a position of dominance, it really is your noblesse oblige to take the highroad when it comes to dealing with people who are at a disadvantage in society. That is why there is a double standard for white people- it is acceptable to knock white people down a peg or two, but it would be racial harassment if the tables were turned.

Let the flames begin!

When I was in Kenya I felt there was a reverence for white skin if anything. But I don't think it deserves that. I do see your point about there not being such a thing as racism against white people. But just becuase it doesn't pack a punch that doesn't mean it isn't racism. Just because trying to knock down the race doesn't knock it down that doesn't mean it isn't racist to call whites crackers or whatever. But is it offensive? No it isn't to most. However, if the tables become turned, should another race become dominant, and then persecute white people, it will be. I for one do not think this is impossible. Basically I think jokes about whites are racist. Of course they are. They're jokes making fun of a race. They just may not be offensive. Not yet.

[amber]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

More recently, I've noticed that the worst perpetrators of the whole "ching chong" thing have been black. I honestly have no idea why this is the case. Perhaps it's a way of saying "you are the new n***ers in this country."

Or maybe it is a way to say "why do you kick us out of your stores when we aren't doing anything wrong"?

No one should be racist, but a lot of asian americans are. And this dynamic kind of shows that disrespect breeds disrespect, either way, whoever starts it.

And on edit, I see that many here aren't that offended by racist things said to white people. I am. Racism is wrong, and a lack of respect for me because of my skin color is just as bad as the reverse - either way it is a lack of respect based on skin color. Regardless of who and who has not been persecuted in the past, still nothing makes skin color as the basis of judgment and disrespect okay.
If you're going to call someone a b*tch, just leave it at that, no need to bring their race into it.