Rosie's ching-chong comments

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I let the facts speak for themselves.

you do? by the way, this whole tangent of yours is actually in the wrong thread. I think it belongs in the Holocaust is Myth thread.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by sparky

I got in an argument with two Mexican guys last week at Home Depot.
It was a stupid thing about a cart.
It was the first time I ever got the race thing tossed at me in my life.
What did they say to me?

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?"

So, last week, I experienced the hint that your statement isn't completely correct. Not in Los Angeles anyway.

I wasn't "offended." That overused, lame word should be struck from the English language I am so sick of it. But I was taken aback. The whole thing made me think. Because those guys were pissed. And they were right.

Sparks, Ive heard that theory before, but not from the Mexicans themselves. it was first brought to my attention in a college class about California...

[amber]

Originally Posted by Heji

In this day and age, there is no such thing as racism against white people.

Wow, how did I miss this? I've been racially based insulted numerous times. Now, whether or not this extends to institutions, hiring, etc. I can't say.

But as far as individual people and racism, or...reverse racism? It's alive and well, trust.
Also a lot of traditionally "minority" races are much more prejudiced against other "minority" races than most white people I've come in contact with. Asians are notoriously prejudiced against black people for sure (and perhaps others), as are middle eastern people. This is what I've seen.
In fall 2002, UC Berkeley was 46% asian american, the largest percentage attending, with the next highest (white) at only about 30%.
So, really, we can't afford for anyone to be prejudice, traditional "minorities" or not.
This doesn't have much bearing on your experience as a child, but I just wanted to relay that there is racism against whites, and that minorities are fast becoming non minorities, and those minorities can be just as racist if not moreso than white people. And so, while some people think there isn't much danger when "minorities" are prejudice against whites - there can be danger if our institutions are becoming such that a majority of that institution's population is a certain race that may be prejudice, just like there is danger if institutions are primarily white and there is prejudice.
I think the fallacy is that there isn't prejudice against whites. Maybe not so much by other whites (der), but that isn't the reality of america's racial makeup.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

First off, Michelle Malkin is a f&**ing right wing Auntie Tomasina c*nt! She is an utter disgrace to the human race. I wouldn't p*ss on her if she was on fire.

Okay... being of Asian extraction, I think I can add some insight to this... For one thing, I don't think Rosie was intentionally trying to be offensive. The fact is that for some reason it has always been "okay" to mock Asian people, especially Chinese people, in the most patently offensive ways- pushing the corners of the eyes up, sticking out the front teeth and making fun of the language with all of the "ching chong, ching chong" crap. It's classic playground behavior. And apparently Rosie has plenty of that kind of immaturity to get over.

And for those who don't really understand it, I guess this is another one of those "it's an Asian thing; you wouldn't understand" topics. I don't think most people here know what it's like to have been taunted by gangs of thugs as a kid while they hurled rocks at us doing the whole "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. They threw rocks at my grandmother! I don't think most people here know what it's like to attend a hick mostly white private school and being the only minority and being taunted constantly with the "slanty eye" "ching chong" thing. And most of you don't know what it's like to have your white trash ignorant history teacher patronizing you by calling you his "little Asian connection," which totally exacerbated the whole "ching chong" thing even more. And it isn't like I was some walking encyclopedia of Asian stereotypes: I don't have really slanty eyes and I have always spoken perfect unaccented English (I would dare say, better than most native born Americans). As a result I went through a very long time of being ashamed of my ethnicity; almost as if everybody managed to convince me that, indeed, there was something wrong with being Asian and that Asians were inferior to whites. I guess you can say I wrestled with my cultural identity issues for a very, very long time. My parents made a point of trying to assimilate us into the mainstream rather than settling down in some Asian ghetto, and I'm very, very glad they did this. But, unfortunately, this is the price we paid. Do you think enduring all of this as a child was deeply hurtful and offensive? You'd better believe it.

I am glad that Asians as a community finally "grew a pair" and started denouncing this sort of thing in the media. If people think this is being excessively politically correct, then I'm all for being excessively politically correct. And for someone like Rosie doing the whole "ching chong" thing on national television brings back some very bad memories. Shame on her! Especially for someone who is supposed to be THE role model for gay parenting. I hope she is not teaching her children that intimidating minorities with this type of offensive conduct is okay, especially since she is part of a persecuted minority as well.

I understand your hatred, but "white trash?" And in a thread about racial sensitivity? Your point was well made until that little hate phrase popped up.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

I understand your hatred, but "white trash?" And in a thread about racial sensitivity? Your point was well made until that little hate phrase popped up.

White trash is a hate phrase now ?

I am so out of it when it comes to this, and frankly, I am happier for it.

I can't possibly keep up with people's hot button victim phrases, and I no longer try.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by sparky

White trash is a hate phrase now ?

I am so out of it when it comes to this, and frankly, I am happier for it.

I can't possibly keep up with people's hot button victim phrases, and I no longer try.

I'm the same way...when someone started saying that "wet back" was no longer the Mexican bash phrase..it's now "scratch back"

At that point, I gave up even trying to know what all the hot button terms are...

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by sparky

White trash is a hate phrase now?

Let me ask you this: how is calling someone white trash any different than calling someone a n****r?

So yeah, that phrase is rife with hatred in my opinion. I'm not taking this up as my hobby horse or anything [because god forbid I should espouse ANYTHING remotely p.c. ], I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in people's views about these kinds of terms.

[strandinthewind]

As mentioned earlier, there exists this whole line of thought that white people (apparently all of them) cannot be discrimminated against by minorities essentially because white people did the majority of the discrimminating in recent history. Personally, I think this is hogwash because discrimmination based on a stereotype is all the same to me and the mocking of one class or type of person is equally hateful if put forth in that manner. I do think, however, humor is allowed in this area a la Rosie, who certainly was not being anything hateful at all.

The line drawing though is funny to me because black people can be as racist as they want to each other and white people and it's all fine and dandy. It does not work the other way though. Maybe one day that will not be so and I think we will be the better for it.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Let me ask you this: how is calling someone white trash any different than calling someone a n****r?

So yeah, that phrase is rife with hatred in my opinion. I'm not taking this up as my hobby horse or anything [because god forbid I should espouse ANYTHING remotely p.c. ], I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in people's views about these kinds of terms.

In my view it's not even close to the same thing.

White Trash is just a phrase for low class, sloppy living, uneducated white people. My hometown was full of them. I use that phrase all the time. I think it's funny. It's a whole way of life, being white trash. I don't find it loaded at all. It's like redneck to me. In fact, sometimes when I go back to Oregon my pals and I have white trash parties - cheap beer, bad hot dogs, greasy potato salad, Molly Hatchet and Lynyrd Skynrd on the stereo, and TV in the front yard. What that has to do with a slur against black people...I have no idea.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

As mentioned earlier, there exists this whole line of thought that white people (apparently all of them) cannot be discrimminated against by minorities essentially because white people did the majority of the discrimminating in recent history.

I don't think that's the argument. I think the argument is that there can't be racism against white people, because whites hold the power in all facets of society. If I understand that correctly, then the argument is that built into racism is a power dynamic.

I'm not sure I agree with the argument as put forth by Spike Lee and Hejira, because a white person can be racist, as it's defined by every dictionary I have looked up online.

I do agree, though, that because of power dynamics, people of color are severely disproportionately impacted by racism and discriminatory actions. And that is why I understand why the ching-chong thing was considered hurtful by so many in the Asian community, regardless of my own take on it.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by sparky

In my view it's not even close to the same thing.

White Trash is just a phrase for low class, sloppy living, uneducated white people. My hometown was full of them. I use that phrase all the time. I think it's funny. It's a whole way of life, being white trash. I don't find it loaded at all. It's like redneck to me. In fact, sometimes when I go back to Oregon my pals and I have white trash parties - cheap beer, bad hot dogs, greasy potato salad, Molly Hatchet and Lynyrd Skynrd on the stereo, and TV in the front yard. What that has to do with a slur against black people...I have no idea.

Well, it's obvious that we don't agree on the basic premise of this argument so there's no going forward with it. I'll just say that white trash is not a good phrase, and to me, it's the equivalent of the n-word, or calling Mexicans "wetbacks," or Italians w.o.p.'s, etc. They are all racial and or ethnic slurs, it's just that white trash happens to hit most squarely at the socio-economic level than mere race or ethnicity. To call someone white trash is descriminatory and classist, it's just that people (mainly whites) tend to be very de-sensitized and or just generally unbothered by the term. But to throw hands in the air and claim that you can't see the parallel that exists between the term "white trash" and other racial/ethnic/socio-economic slurs is just plain ridiculous. I'm sure that you can imagine why one would make such an argument. If not, really, forget it.

[Rickypt]

White trash: not even close to being the same as the N word, in my opinon. The n word used throughout history in a vicious manner, associated with violence, slavery, and treating a group of people as less than human.

I don't particularly like the term white trash because it demeans an economic class (agree with cliffdweller) and why use the word trash to talk about someone? But I didn't grow up in the same environment as sparky, so I think the term is probably used without malice by many people.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by cliffdweller

Well, it's obvious that we don't agree on the basic premise of this argument so there's no going forward with it.

We probably don't agree on the premise. I just don't take it as seriously. I don't allow words that kind of power anymore in my world.

I'll just say that white trash is not a good phrase, and to me, it's the equivalent of the n-word, or calling Mexicans "wetbacks," or Italians w.o.p.'s, etc. They are all racial and or ethnic slurs, it's just that white trash happens to hit most squarely at the socio-economic level than mere race or ethnicity. To call someone white trash is descriminatory and classist, it's just that people (mainly whites) tend to be very de-sensitized and or just generally unbothered by the term.

The reason I think it is different is that it's just as much about not having good taste. It's a little about being lazy and a little about being sloppy, and a lot about not giving a ****. It's really not about being white. Being poor doesn't mean you can't dress in clean clothes, wipe your kids noses and faces, and keep garbage out of your front yard. Or take down your Christmas lights. You can have a junk piece of crap car, but at least wash the damned thing and take out the fast food bags. I knew plenty of people growing up who came from families without much money. Not all of them had cars parked in the front yard, a dog tied to the front porch, dead lawns, screen door half off the hinges, empty beer cans littering the living room, newspapers piled up, etc. And the ones who didn't were not always from families of more means.

I know that certain people in the past called others white trash as a put down that had the subtext of implying they were "beneath their race". Kind of like whites who live like poor blacks - a thing born of old school mostly southern race talk. But I don't look at it that way. Never did. And no one I know means it like that.

But to throw hands in the air and claim that you can't see the parallel that exists between the term "white trash" and other racial/ethnic/socio-economic slurs is just plain ridiculous. I'm sure that you can imagine why one would make such an argument. If not, really, forget it.

It's not ridiculous. I can see that some people in the past spit the term out that way, but I think we are in a different era. I have never heard it uttered with contempt the way I have heard the standard issue "slurs." In fact, the other night, I was talking to some people at my house and they asked me where I grew up. I told them I grew up in Oregon, in the suburbs of Portland. And that I grew up in an area where I damn well could have been white trash but I rose above it. We all laughed and they said they were the same. So, I may see how you can make your argument, but I just don't think it's all that valid.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by sparky

In my view it's not even close to the same thing.

White Trash is just a phrase for low class, sloppy living, uneducated white people. My hometown was full of them. I use that phrase all the time. I think it's funny. It's a whole way of life, being white trash. I don't find it loaded at all. It's like redneck to me. In fact, sometimes when I go back to Oregon my pals and I have white trash parties - cheap beer, bad hot dogs, greasy potato salad, Molly Hatchet and Lynyrd Skynrd on the stereo, and TV in the front yard. What that has to do with a slur against black people...I have no idea.

Most people use the term ni**er to refer to black people who are lower in class a la the people of your hometown as opposed to terming all black people as ni**ers. The difference is black people were once slaves and have a history of oppression. Most white people do not, though certainly some do.

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by sparky

"You're gonna be the minority here soon, Motherf*cker. We're taking over and your white bitch ass is gonna be sorry. You notice you're the only white face in this store?"

what did you do/say in response?