Neighborhood bans Christmas wreath

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by carrie721

ba-zing!

is your comment about scully hanging with me supposed to be some jab about autoerotic asphyxiation? because whatever you've heard isn't true.

You know, there are worse ways to go, but I can't think of a more undignified way than autoerotic asphyxiation.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

You know, there are worse ways to go, but I can't think of a more undignified way than autoerotic asphyxiation.

we're sick people, dee.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

to how the Nazi's STOLED the swazstika from the Native Americans and distorted its true meaning (To most Indian tribes the swazstika is a sign of "good luck", so much so that the 45th Infantry had the swazstika as their shield, until WWII)

As for symbol's that can be considered "Satanic", I have a HUGE pentagram hanging on the bedroom-About 3 feet wide. Of course it is part of a wall tapestry for Rush's "Permanent Waves" tour...Betcha the naked dude in front of the same pentagram would also be misconstrued by some durn-fool-idgits.

actually Brian, that cross is older than the Native American usage....

The Swastika is persistently associated with the sacredfire-sticks. Agni was the god of the fire-stick (swastika).

In Great Britain it was calledfylfot from the Anglo- Saxonfower-fot-four footed or many footed. The Druids were said to have shaped their trees in the form of the swastika or fylfot cross.

The Swastika was the cross of the Manicheans and was their sale symbol. During the second and third centuries the swastika was the only form of cross used by the Christians.

The swastika touched everywhere, and wherever it appeared, like the wheel, it was looked upon as the symbolical representation of solar energy. The swastika with its 'bent arms poised for flight' was the symbol of motion, good fortune, long life, and has been looked upon from earliest times as a charm or amulet that brings good luck.

The Nazi's reversed the pagan cross, and perverted its meaning too.

here is another blurb:

The swastika is an archetypal, universal human religious symbol. It appears on every continent and is as old as humankind. A marker of the sun's travels, it can be seen on Pictish rock carvings, adorning ancient Greek pottery, and on ancient Norse weapons and implements. It was scratched on cave walls in France seven thousand years ago. A swastika marks the beginning of many Buddhist scriptures, and is often inciused on the soles of the feet of the Buddha in statuary. In the Jain religion, it is a symbol of the seventh Jina (Saint), the Tirthankara Suparsva. To Native Americans, the swastika is a symbol of the sun, the four directions, and the four seasons.

in short, many cultures have used this symbol (its an archetype) however its use in the ancient European/Middle Eastern/Asian cultures predated the Ancient American usage.
and the Nazi's borrowed it from the European cultures not the Native American as you assert....


this link gives a very thorough discussion of the symbol across all the various cultures that have used it.

here's more:

The Swastika has been in use by humans since prehistory. The word Swastika has its roots in Sanskrit, the language of ancient India, but the actual symbol is older. Swastikas have been found on vases, coins, and other artifacts all over the world. Various cultures that probably didn't communicate used swastikas or similar symbols independent of each other. The Swastika has been a Hindu symbol for thousands of years.

Perhaps the Swastika is an archetypal image in man's collective unconscious (as described by Carl Jung).. another words, the human brain tends to have an affinity for the swastika and similar shapes.

The Nazi use of the swastika has stained the symbol's reputation for a long damned time. Hitler's adoption of the swastika is logical when looked at in a historical context.

A few German magical groups in the late 1800's started to adopt the swastika. The symbol was the pagan sign for the German Thunder God Donner (or Thor). Wilhelm Schwaner displayed a swastika on the title page of "Der Volkserzieher" in 1897, an early "volkisch" periodical. These periodicals were designed to instill their readers with German and Nordic pride. After this, the Swastika started to appear often on Volkisch periodicals and other items meant to signify racial and national pride.

The German generation that fought in World War I saw swastikas. After World War I, the swastika was taken up by dissident and militant groups, and its darker implications started to develop. Dr. Friedrich Krohn designed the classic Nazi Swastika in 1919. Unlike the rest of Germany, Dr. Krohn acknowledged the ancient Buddhist use of the symbol, and argued that the Nazi Swastika should point "anti-clock-wise" because to Buddhists this signifies "fortune and well-being". Hitler demanded that the Nazi Swastika point "clock-wise", which to Buddhists signifies "cessation" or "away from God".

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

actually Brian, that cross is older than the Native American usage....

but I am only familiar with it, outside of the Nazi's use, with Native Americans & Indians (aka People from India).

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

but I am only familiar with it, outside of the Nazi's use, with Native Americans & Indians (aka People from India).

ok, fair enough....I myself am familiar with it both as a sanskrit symbol and as a celtic/druidic symbol, but as the articles pointed out, it is an archetype, an icon/symbol common to many (if not all!) cultures. Im not disputing the Native American usage, rather I wanted to correct your misunderstanding that Hitler "borrowed" it from the Native Americans.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

They live in a covenant controlled community unfortunately. And when you buy the property you also say you are going to abide by the covenants. They're usually pretty loosely defined so they can get away with this kind of crap. I used to live in a covenant controlled community and used to get notices when my sliding screen door was off the tracks, which was any time the wind blew. They also wouldn't allow me to have my daughter's bike on the patio. They suck.
Now if this were in Boulder, no one would bat an eye. But southern Colorado is a whole different thing. But there's probably some freeper living in the neighborhood who thinks them damn hippies are displaying their peace sign and not suppporting our troops and blah, blah, blah. It's amazing and interesting and perplexing the diversity of life in a few hundred miles.

Personally, I think I'd be reading all them CCR's pretty darn closely, and looking for the loophole. Next I'd be schlepping over to the local law library and looking up recent caselaw regarding homeowner's associations and what they CAN and CANT do. Yep. thats what I'd be doing

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

ok, fair enough....I myself am familiar with it both as a sanskrit symbol and as a celtic/druidic symbol, but as the articles pointed out, it is an archetype, an icon/symbol common to many (if not all!) cultures. Im not disputing the Native American usage, rather I wanted to correct your misunderstanding that Hitler "borrowed" it from the Native Americans.

but Natives of this state seem to think Hitler stole it from them (The same goes for the thunderbird)....I just typed what is always said about the swazstika is all.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

but Natives of this state seem to think Hitler stole it from them (The same goes for the thunderbird)....I just typed what is always said about the swazstika is all.

ok......I guess I cant blame them for feeling that way, when so much else was stolen from them........(that doesnt make them right in this instance, but I cant blame them for feeling that way....)

as for the Thunderbird.....thats a new one, I havent seen the Thunderbird used anywhere else but by the Native Americans...I know that there is such a thing as a Phoenix in other cultures but I wasnt aware that they were one and the same

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

as for the Thunderbird.....thats a new one, I havent seen the Thunderbird used anywhere else but by the Native Americans...I know that there is such a thing as a Phoenix in other cultures but I wasnt aware that they were one and the same

the German 'Iron Eagle' crest (Slayer uses a similar image as a logo-Which is the same one the Nazi's used. Interesting that guitarist Jeff Hanneman collects German/WW2 memoribilia), which was featured on WWII propaganda posters? Natives considered that a ripoff of the thunderbird.

Here is a picture of the "Iron Eagle":

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

That just sounds scary...I don't think I've heard of that...covenant controlled...yikes. And yeah...so were you constantly under a microscope? that's what it sounds like...yuck..it IS like that Laura and Rob Petrie episode of the X-Files

Pretty much anything with a homeowners association is going to have covenants. I think it's the word that's freaking you out. It's not as sinister as it sounds. Anyone who lives in a condo, townhome, gated community or co op knows what I'm talking about.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Personally, I think I'd be reading all them CCR's pretty darn closely, and looking for the loophole. Next I'd be schlepping over to the local law library and looking up recent caselaw regarding homeowner's associations and what they CAN and CANT do. Yep. thats what I'd be doing

I'd bet my last nickel someone actually is doing that in this case. She's willing to take the fine so you know she's also willing to fight it in court. They specifically referred to signs, flags and banners and IMO, this is none of those. It's a holiday decoration. Like she said, what are they going to do next? Tell her that her Santa Claus display is offending someone and take it down? Nope, I don't think this one will fly in court. The president of the HOA seems like a real horses ass.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I'd bet my last nickel someone actually is doing that in this case. She's willing to take the fine so you know she's also willing to fight it in court. They specifically referred to signs, flags and banners and IMO, this is none of those. It's a holiday decoration. Like she said, what are they going to do next? Tell her that her Santa Claus display is offending someone and take it down? Nope, I don't think this one will fly in court. The president of the HOA seems like a real horses ass.

yeah, firing all five members of that committee when they didnt give the decision he wanted them to.........the guy's an uber patriot, Im thinking...(and a fundie, that goes without saying....)

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

the German 'Iron Eagle' crest (Slayer uses a similar image as a logo-Which is the same one the Nazi's used. Interesting that guitarist Jeff Hanneman collects German/WW2 memoribilia), which was featured on WWII propaganda posters? Natives considered that a ripoff of the thunderbird.

Here is a picture of the "Iron Eagle":

Brian that Eagle doesnt remind me of any Thunderbird image I've ever seen....
Lots of regimes have used the Eagle as a symbol, Rome, the US.....

here are some clips of what I think of when I think of the Thunderbird:




the image you posted looks like the Imperial Eagle the romans used:



this one is French, Napoleon used it:



in short, I guess Im not seeing the connection?

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

Brian that Eagle doesnt remind me of any Thunderbird image I've ever seen....
Lots of regimes have used the Eagle as a symbol, Rome, the US.....

in short, I guess Im not seeing the connection?

but I have heard the complaints countless times (I live only 1/4th a mile from the Kiowa Indian Tribal Complex-the Kiowa's are hardcore in their beliefs on anything from their past and anything similarly connected to WWII. Hell, they tell me I'm not Indian because I have Irish blood!!!)


Btw, The news showed that the convenant has backed off their request to remove the peace sign (After national media coverage...Hmm, I wonder why) so the peace sign can now stay and the lady wont have to pay any fine.

The convenant said it was "all a misunderstanding".

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

yeah, firing all five members of that committee when they didnt give the decision he wanted them to.........the guy's an uber patriot, Im thinking...(and a fundie, that goes without saying....)

Mmmmm. I was thinking more of the time when Nixon fired Archibald Cox. Damn Capricorns. Good or bad, they're always on my mind.