Screw Butterball

[strandinthewind]

People who deliberately torture animals should be imprisoned.

As for the stuff we eat, I find it is just easier not to think about it. I could tell a million stories of the slaughterhoues, but I think we all get the idea.

[Nixxxed]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Well she was saying something about Fried Chicken and KFC and I said that I would never eat there..and began to tell her why.

When I got to the part about the beaks she told me about her job and said, "they really can't feel anything..."

That's utter bullplop. A bird's beak is one of the most sensitive areas of its body.

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/depa...skdrharris.htm

Excerpt (the site is about parrots, but it applies to most birds):

"BIRD BEAKS are one of nature's special creations. They are very much like our fingernails, but with supporting bone underneath. They also have germinal, or growth, tissue beneath the hard shell, which lets the beak grow in three directions - from top to tip, from center to edges and from deep to surface - unlike our nails, which grow in a flat sheet with growth tissue at the top. The germinal layer with its blood supply extends almost to the tip of the beak. This makes the beak a very sensitive organ, as well as a strong one. Consider how your bird can groom your eyelashes with the same beak he uses to crack a walnut! ... "

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by Nixxxed

That's utter bullplop. A bird's beak is one of the most sensitive areas of its body.

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/depa...skdrharris.htm

Excerpt (the site is about parrots, but it applies to most birds):

"BIRD BEAKS are one of nature's special creations. They are very much like our fingernails, but with supporting bone underneath. They also have germinal, or growth, tissue beneath the hard shell, which lets the beak grow in three directions - from top to tip, from center to edges and from deep to surface - unlike our nails, which grow in a flat sheet with growth tissue at the top. The germinal layer with its blood supply extends almost to the tip of the beak. This makes the beak a very sensitive organ, as well as a strong one. Consider how your bird can groom your eyelashes with the same beak he uses to crack a walnut! ... "

I'm so going to make her read that...I need no convincing - I'll be forever haunted by the video of the chicks getting their beaks seered off - it looked like they were in a great deal of pain...not to mention the result being malformed beaks that in many cases don't even allow them to eat...

[amber]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

It always amazes me that people somehow seem to think the meat in the store just comes that way. Having essentailly grown up around the farming industry, I can assure you after awhile, slaughtering is all the same. I hate to sound that way, but you just become numb to it after awhile. I do think, however, the animals should be treated as humanely as possible, which almost always costs money ad these people do not want to spend it -- sad, very true. On the other hand, the reality is very few people are willing to pay extra for that. So, the market exists for that reason. I mean who amongst us has not bought the cheapest chicken in the supermarket when the cash was low

Your logic is good, but it isn't that much more expensive. I've been shopping at whole foods for a long time now, and the meat and produce is pretty comparable, a little more expensive. So, if you think about it, say the same poundage of Turkey costs...I dunno....a big turkey...maybe $5 more for free range? I'm not sure exactly how much it is, I'll check tomorrow, but I have bought a lot of ground beef from there that was free range/grass fed (corn fed traditional cows lack so much more nutrients than grass fed regular, btw, and have much more fat. They feed them corn so the cows will weigh more and they'll get more money. That is also the reason people keep food animals inactive, chained up, because if you can't move you'll be way fatter. This is also the reason why High Fructose Corn Syrup is so bad for you, and why the instance of diabetes is climbing. High Fructose Corn Syrup = Don't eat it. It's in almost everything cause it's so cheap, but don't eat it. It's worse than regular sugar. It's poison. Also, if you are really smart, you'll buy Venison or Bison meat, much leaner, less cholestrol, with all the iron, all the good stuff) and it is almost always $4-$5 a pound. That isn't very much.
So, lets take for instance lots of people with middle, low middle, and higher incomes. I think most of those people would be able to afford the bit higher priced Turkey. You are right, currently more people will be resistant to buying it, and others won't buy it cause they don't know. Truthfully, I swear, most people here go organic or free range. Okay, a lot.
But I digress. I think many people, when they learn about the benefits to themselves and their bodies from this kind of meat as opposed to the other, and when they hear it's only a few dollars more expensive, would buy it. I mean, $5 is the cost of one cocktail, it isn't that much.

Also I think your opinion is slightly dated, just because I think more people are becoming conscious of the various factors of their food. There are always articles about it in many places. I think in some areas people may not automatically know where they can get that meat, but it can usually be found. And, you'll notice Safeway started carrying a whole organic line of food, even chicken - so it looks like people made it known that they want that choice, and Safeway responded. I have so much faith in the power of the dollar - if people tell their retailers what they want, it doesn't go unnoticed. And it may take awhile, but if enough people say they want something, bet your ass a retailer would respond rather than losing business. Case in point, Safeway is so rich, you would think they would ignore the cry for healthier grown/prepared food. But they didn't.
So, I mean "outdated" in the sense that what you said lacks positive forward flow to the times and the tide, and supposes their are no answers and it will never work out. When in fact I have seen many instances where it works.

Another case - Round these parts, there is this heinous neighborhood called "West Oakland" and some others. They don't really have grocery stores nearby, lots of liquor stores that sell produce. So this Indian lady researched it a bit, and found out that these people want to eat healthy, and feed their kids right, but they are so poor/don't know/don't have accessible retailers/just bad poverty in that neighborhood and all the worst that comes with it.
So what she did, is she bought an old mail truck, I think, and she travels around the neighborhoods selling organic produce (which again, isn't really that expensive. A few cents more. I don't know her prices). And these people are the poorest of the poor for the most part, and they buy it, and are really happy they have easier access to it now. It may not sound like a big deal for people to go to the grocery store, but seriously, they have to ride the bus hella, hella far.

Anyway, I think what you said was true but is changing because of spread knowledge and the lowering price of these organic/etc. products, and their growing accessibility. And yes, I realize that some places are not so up to speed, and will take more time. But that doesn't mean the effort is useless. Heck, civil rights took centuries, and we're still dealing with that. It's about commitment. It's about realizing that to make things change, you have to change. Someway. Life is about knowlege and change anyway. The question becomes, as a human, if you know better, why don't you do better? If you are able, of course.

People can change, and want to, they just have to have the tools. Obviously that doesn't mean all people, and change is slow, but sometimes it's fast, and we know from looking at the history of this century and all others that human advancement can be rapid. I'm sure you'll agree with that, that advances can be made, and quickly. You are an avid consumer of these advances.

I hope all that can spare an extra $5 or so from their budget do seek out that free range turkey. I almost guarantee it will taste way better. My ground beef does, and my organic veggies and fruits without a doubt do. Like, super delicious with the fruit.

It's just a matter of you, me, and all who can making little life choices every day. You'd be hard pressed to convince me, Strand, that you couldn't afford five extra dollars. And the same goes with me, who is hella poor. lol, I'm not singling you out, I'm just making an example with your name. I'm not having Turkey, but still. And if you, or others between yours and my income say they can't afford it - it's possible - but I would postulate that they could easily care about the fate of the world and their/their family's health for five more dollars.
Some people really can't afford it, I know, I'm not getting a Turkey (no big, as long as I have pumpkin pie with whipped cream and stuffing and gravy). But the more informed people are, and the more things that are accessible, the better choices people, as a whole, will tend to make.

It's been hard, but I made a pact to buy my produce organic, and my meat the same, and even better not buy meat at all - which can get a smidge more expensive, but not noticeably for someone who can afford to spend, say, $4 for four non meat patties at 10 oz. total, as apposed to say, a lb. of ground beef (grass fed) for $4. To me, that often makes the difference, though i usually spend more than I should on "good" food - but to the average person, that six ounce difference for the same price, considering the huge payoff, would be doable and worth it. It is basically paying an "extra" dollar for considerable health benefits. Considerable. More than 6 oz worth of health. lol. I have slipped a couple times, pretty few, I admit. Like when Safeway has a huge bag of apples for $2.50. But Whole foods usually has five Fuji or Granny Smith for $2.50, and they taste waaaay better.
Anyway, I've slipped a few times, but I usually only have $10 to $ 50 to spend each week for groceries, most often about $20 - $30. With not eating out, really. So, I'm sure most of you have more to spend, so...you know...hehehe....and for those of you with kids, I know you don't want to be feeding your kids a bunch of chemicals and hormones, while I also know that it's hard to make ends meet when you have kids. But there are cheap nutritious tasty foods, you just have to do them.

Many people doing small things add up to big things - I'm sure no one would argue with that. But converseley, without economic pressure, these corporations won't change, because they work on the bottom line. In my town, Whole Foods and Berkeley Bowl (another whole food kind of store) and Safeway are all within a few blocks of my house, I mean each other, lol. Berkeley Bowl and Whole Foods are 99 percent of the time more crowded than Safeway when i go into these stores, and I go all around the same times, in case anyone is wondering if this is a "controlled experiment" lol.
That is something a corporation won't ignore, is losing money. And it's worth it to me to pay 25 cents more for my produce when it's produced organically. Or a dollar more if the meat was free range, not in heinous shackles being overfed and not moving for their life. And it's worth even more if that meat was fed what they are supposed to eat, in an organic form, not given foods that aren't healthful, and shots to make them bigger and fight disease (organic beef growers use another method to fight disease, and don't have as much of it, just by virtue of the different way their cows are raised). I don't want that sh*t in my body, helping to cause cancer and whatever. I save that slot for beer and a few cigs!!!
But I'm sure everyone wants what is better for them.
I'm not against eating animals for food, necessarily, although I think if you want optimal health it should be very limited. But the way our animals are processed has nothing to do with what humans, or even the animals themselves, should actually consume.

*Wait, someone sexually assaulted a Turkey?! My god. Men never cease to amaze me. And no, I'm not talking about most men who are normal and nice. I'm talking about men who sleep with babies, kids, turkeys, sheep, whatever. Apparently there is always some segment of the population who wants to do these things. Abhorrent.*

[ragandbone]

It's a horrible business, and that undercover guy is really cool for risking going in those places to take the footage.
Thanks JAnnieC for the post, as well.

I thought for a minute about the organic free-range chicken* I have been buying the family, and then I thought about how they are slaughtered all the same (as Strand pointed out) and I wished to be veg again. I was vegetarian for 12 years, but have been eating some meat for at least a decade.
*note that much of the "free-range, or "cage-free" methods have been shown top be deceptive, so you really have to research the farm

My mother's family raised chickens, primarily to sell eggs, for a number of years, and in the years I had stopped eating meat, I got my mother to give up red meat, but she claimed she didn't mind the thought of the chicken's death at all. Apparently she had grown to hate them. I was never able to change her mind.

Now, I would nver want to excuse the vile behavior of those workers in the Butterball (or other) poultry factory, but one of the things I noticed in the video was that the factory was unfit for birds, and humans. I think if we had seen a prison with the same conditions the video would have shown similarly awful violence to the prisoners, because, yes, humans are often hateful and nasty. I don't want to know what compels someone to take a job in that Hell.

I do want to know why/how I see see signs for hamburger 99cents, or even 1.99 cents—prices from my childhood in the seventies! It's agri-business: we eat too much, pay too little, and they make to much money. I have been fortunate in that I live in a county where there are many options for buying directly from farmers. It IS more expensive, in my experience.

I DO natter on, don't I?
Anyway,
this site has been really useful:
http://www.localharvest.org/

Here is a page with info about Con Agra the parent company of Butterball. There is a note about the PETA investigation, and then a list of the companies many food brands.
http://www.coopamerica.org/tools/pri...ile.cfm?id=206

[irishgrl]

^^^

Sweetie, you dont know anything about nattering on! take a gander at the post before yours

[SuzeQuze]

I can't watch either but there's no way in hell I will buy a Butterball ever again. I don't mind paying extra money for a free range bird. I find this horrific. I had no idea the beaks were seared off. WTF?

People who abuse animals were likely abused/neglected at home. I'm not talking about people like your friend who believed the propoganda that they can't feel anything. But the people who deliberately mistreat the animals. Those people working with the animals are probably making 5.15 an hour right? They're taking their anger toward The Man out on those poor birds. People suck.

I think most people, if they knew what happened to these birds, would stop buying them. Although many people seem to be able to completely separate what happens to the animals when they're alive from the food they're eating, I never could. Sometimes I wish I could so I could avoid feeling so awful when I hear this stuff.

[strandinthewind]

I do not think any readily commercially available chicken is not from a debeaked bird. Maybe some of the free range stuff, but, I would still check and see because, as said earlier, slapping "free range" onto the package is all part of the advertising in some cases.

[JazmenFlowers]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

as said earlier, slapping "free range" onto the package is all part of the advertising in some cases.

god I hope this isn't true. kinda like how everything is "organic" or "100% pure"...

[DavidMn]

Well I want Turkey, so hopefully the other companies treat their birds better.

[bikerchic]

I love turkey! The Butterball, pre-stuffed, cooked from frozen is the best Unfortunately, we Canadians have already had our Thanksgiving, so I will have to wait until Christmas.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by DavidMn

Well I want Turkey, so hopefully the other companies treat their birds better.

I thought the same thing.

I can guarantee that my little old grandma is NOT going to get free-range turkey She's probably never even HEARD of free-range turkey.

Oh - but I'm not actually going to be with family for Thanksgiving this year - I'll be with people who have kindly invited me into their home - so no clue what kind of turkey I'll be eating.

[estranged4life]

Havent celebrated Thanksgiving the past few years, not planning to celebrate it (ever) again in the future.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

I can guarantee that my little old grandma is NOT going to get free-range turkey She's probably never even HEARD of free-range turkey.

think 'free range turkeys' are ones that dont need to be cooked in a range or oven

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Havent celebrated Thanksgiving the past few years, not planning to celebrate it (ever) again in the future.

Because it's based on a crock of ****e? I can see that. The parade in Plymouth was canceled for years due to Native American protests but it is on again this year. It will be tomorrow and I am wondering how it will go.