I Miss Dissention

[DavidMn]

He didnt offend me really. Sometimes he could be a bit abrasive, but that was just him. I pm'd him a couple of times and he was very nice.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, the thing is Josh seemingly was never really willing to cut her any slack - or at least the same slack he seemingly gave to other members. Josh also seemed to focus on the negative and never really acknowledge the postitive. But, that was his personage and much of his charm in that he was negative in a clever way. He was also so anti everything establishment it was funny because he worked for that very establishment. All those differences made him a great wit and formidable friend.

I don't think he cut her much slack very often, but he did acknowledge the positive enough to justify his disappointment and criticism. That's where I really connected with him on the issue. Frankly, how can one be so annoyed with an artist's perceived shortcomings and less than stellar efforts if one did not at one time think them to be capable of true greatness ?

In my eyes, his criticism was a great balance to the wide eyed fawning, and the pervasive attitude of "Poor Stevie, she has such problems and is so fragile...it's not her fault she wrote a bunch of crappy songs and got fat! And she's not fat ! Don't say that, it'll hurt her feelings !"

Granted, his, (and my) tendency to be coldly analytical and biting while ragging on her is extreme. That doesn't mean there isn't a truth in it, though. The reality of course, is that the real story lies in between the cutting version of things, and the do no wrong fanboy mentality. It's pretty rare that anyone can engage in the topic and understand that, though. I'm not compelled or interested enough lately to ruminate on the topic at length. But I do know that when I have, from the responses I have usually gotten (with some notable exceptions), I might as well be writing in Aramaic. At least Josh always got it.

[strandinthewind]

Oh I know - believe me - I have been accused of blindly supporting her and I think my posts are contrary to that. In fact, I have repeatedly said that while her voice can still do wonders (see Circle Dance, Rock and Roll, B&B, Insider, etc.) - she rarely uses it to do so, perhaps out of an abundance of caution. I also loved the black dress parodies and thought a few cool ones myself. Yet, there are people who see only what they want to see I guess.

[BTFLCHLD]

[sparky]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Oh I know - believe me - I have been accused of blindly supporting her and I think my posts are contrary to that.

I never perceived such a thing.

[The Tower]

Originally Posted by sparky

Frankly, how can one be so annoyed with an artist's perceived shortcomings and less than stellar efforts if one did not at one time think them to be capable of true greatness ?

That's the one thread that has been continuously woven throughout my Stevie fandom over the last five/ten years- the disappointment. It's excruciating to know that she can achieve greatness, only to see/hear/receive subpar material.

I think the first Las Vegas tour was the ultimate example of this.

GREATNESS: "Beauty and the Beast"

DISAPPOINTMENT: The set list. The bridge of "How Still My Love". The set itself after all the press build-up.

Riding on the Stevie Yo-yo of Disappointment for so many years can really wear one down.

Yes, Brian- I do realize the irony of me going on and on about running points into the ground and then YET AGAIN running my "Stevie is lazy" point into the ground..... Sorry, I'll never stop beating that dead horse.

[skcin]

^ Did you just call Stevie a horse?!?! How dare you, sir!

[sparky]

Originally Posted by skcin

^ Did you just call Stevie a horse?!?! How dare you, sir!

Mare. As in "the old grey mare just ain't...."



At least it beats cow. This is a Dissention thread, after all.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by The Tower

Yes, Brian- I do realize the irony of me going on and on about running points into the ground and then YET AGAIN running my "Stevie is lazy" point into the ground..... Sorry, I'll never stop beating that dead horse.

It's ok, Chris.
While I disagree that "lazy" is the right word (if she were "lazy," she'd just sit at home and collect royalty payments), I do feel that she's way too overly cautious for an artist with such a solid fanbase. For whatever reason that may be.
And the endless touring does absolutely nothing for me... I'd much rather get a new album every year or even every other year.

I guess it's just my "might as well make peace with the negative aspects if there's nothing you can do to change them" viewpoint that keeps me from ever getting too disappointed when it comes to Stevie & Fleetwood Mac.

[cliffdweller]

Originally Posted by sparky

Granted, his, (and my) tendency to be coldly analytical and biting while ragging on her is extreme. That doesn't mean there isn't a truth in it, though. The reality of course, is that the real story lies in between the cutting version of things, and the do no wrong fanboy mentality.

I agree. And the one thing that always kept me a "fan" of Josh's is his great sense of humor. He was hilarious. And he was usually fair too. He might rag on someone for something and then turn around defend them for something else. People mainly remember him for being a critic (which he was) but he was usually fair in his criticism. Yeah, he was hard on Stevie, but it was usually tempered with some really outlandish humor. I enjoyed it and I consider myself a Stevie fan .

[amber]

Originally Posted by skcin

That's nearly perfect, but you forgot to call someone fug & then post a pic of Anderson Cooper to show everyone what cool actually is. Or Jason Bateman. Or Franz Ferdinand. Or Blondie.

Totally. I was also thinking that I should talk about millions of celebrities, but I couldn't, since I'm not up on their every bowel movement like he is. I also can't make banners, so there's that.

I liked the way he was the only one here who agreed with me pretty much exactly on political and social matters.

Also, the thing is, people miss him because he knew a lot of stuff. About a lot of things. So almost any music, book, politics, TV, whatever someone liked or wanted to talk about, he could talk about it too. I often wondered how he found time for so much TV, movies, books, and politics. But it was a handy quality for the board, because naturally if there is someone here who talks about the same thing you are interested in, there will be more conversations, and he knew about so much stuff that he could talk to lots of different people, many of whom wouldn't have much in common with each other.

His Stevie smack talk didn't bug me after awhile, I just rolled my eyes b/c he always did it, always said the same thing, and always was insulting some celeb anyways. Plus, Stevie is lame sometimes, it is just that I still love her lots anyways.

I never thought he was as funny as everyone else did, though. Not in a bad way, I mean I thought he was kind of funny. Mostly he insulted public figures using interesting phrases (often the same ones over again). I dunno, I just didn't get all the hype with that, though I thought it was mildly amusing. But he always did it, so then it was predictable.

Like I said, I miss him most for the conversations he stimulated from other people.

[mikeschmike]

This thread is slowly turning into a eulogy.

[BTFLCHLD]

Originally Posted by mikeschmike

This thread is slowly turning into a eulogy.

You my friend understand why my last post was a smoochie

[skcin]

Originally Posted by amber

: So almost any music, book, politics, TV, whatever someone liked or wanted to talk about, he could talk about it too. I often wondered how he found time for so much TV, movies, books, and politics.

I never thought he was as funny as everyone else did, though. Not in a bad way, I mean I thought he was kind of funny. Mostly he insulted public figures using interesting phrases (often the same ones over again). I dunno, I just didn't get all the hype with that, though I thought it was mildly amusing. But he always did it, so then it was predictable.

Like I said, I miss him most for the conversations he stimulated from other people.

His mind won't rest & he don't sleep. I never got it either, I would never have the time to watch so much TV & so many movies & listen to all that music. Actually, I refuse to devote so much of my time to all that. But to each his own.

It's painfully obvious that you and I only moderately appreciated his humor. Must be a gay thing. But didn't he initially claim to be bi? Oy, never mind. There are toile curtains in front of me & I'm becoming disoriented.

Originally Posted by mikeschmike

This thread is slowly turning into a eulogy.

Well it is. He's dead to us now. DEAD, I say!

I tried to stop it with the big ego post, but nobody ever listens to me. I'm just a silly little straight girl.


Hey. Wait a minute. You're a gay boy. You like fashion & design & you're kind of new here. Are you really..... Never mind. You're way too positive about La Nicks to be him.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by skcin

I never got it either, I would never have the time to watch so much TV & so many movies & listen to all that music. Actually, I refuse to devote so much of my time to all that. But to each his own.

No kidding. I was thinking about that lately. Well over into a year and a half with no TV. I haven't seen a movie in a theater since...wow, maybe March. Most newly released music doesn't interest me. I am slowly but surely completely withdrawing from the world of popular culture. Every week when I get my EW, I read less and less of it. If Rolling Stone didn't do such interesting journalism, I would drop my subscription. How I was ever such a pop culture junkie, I will never know. I have almost zero interest in any of it anymore. It's good to know what is out there, as every now and then something will come out that I want to investigate. But, it has all mostly become meaningless in my world.