Sources: Arrest made in JonBenet Ramsey case

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

but, all of the stuff I've read so far says he HASNT been accused of any sex crime in Thailand ??? if you know different, would you post the info?

about how those in the world can find unsolved murders as 'entertaining'.

One minute the media said he had been arrested for child sex crimes in Thailand (Like you I havent heard anything about any arrest, He was never in custody until he stepped on US soil...But there was talk on national news he may have been close to being arrested, that's if that was actually a fact or more spectulation-That's what we discussed initially about why he may have admitted to this crime), that he was there for a possible sex change operation (According to the chief surgeon at this facility for sex change operations, he doesnt know anything of Karr or recall him even being a patient).

This is one weird case with one strange individual in the middle being a 'glory seeker' who has made it even weirder.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

not ME, I always felt Patsy was innocent herself. I did wonder about John and that maybe he had her covering for him

And covering for John would make her innocent.....how?

[Livia]

http://www.perezhilton.com/topics/le...e_20060821.php

[macfanken]

I just want to know... has Nancy Grace's head exploded yet?

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

And covering for John would make her innocent.....how?

What I meant was, I dont think (and never did) that Patsy was guilty of murdering her own daughter. I wondered if John had done something and forced Patsy to cover for him. This of course wouldnt make her innocent if she cooperated with him (assuming he was guilty) but if anything she would be an accessory AFTER the fact and she would have a defense to that. Of course, this is all speculation and in Patsy's case a moot point.

[GODDESS6]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

about how those in the world can find unsolved murders as 'entertaining'.

One minute the media said he had been arrested for child sex crimes in Thailand (Like you I havent heard anything about any arrest, He was never in custody until he stepped on US soil...But there was talk on national news he may have been close to being arrested, that's if that was actually a fact or more spectulation-That's what we discussed initially about why he may have admitted to this crime), that he was there for a possible sex change operation (According to the chief surgeon at this facility for sex change operations, he doesnt know anything of Karr or recall him even being a patient).

This is one weird case with one strange individual in the middle being a 'glory seeker' who has made it even weirder.

brian i heard all of this too about this freak, they thought he might of confessed to the jonbenet killing becuz he might of done something over in thailand & thought he was about to be arrested there~ they say he was weighing which would be better thailand prison vs US prisons~ they also talked about him in signing up for sex re-assignement, where so far all he had completed was laser hair removal of some sort~ i think this was all on msnbc~
i'm not so sure of his guilt now, his hearing is today for extradition & maybe it'll shed more lite~ i was hoping that tho the authorities haven't said, that they do have more than just a few emails & statements from this loon, i mean to bring all the media attention back & to have this guy be lying would be so tragic ~ i remember last week the media was talking to patsy ramsey's sister & she said authorities said they had a dna match~ then when the boulder police hold their press conference they say no such thing has happened as of yet~ it is all so sketchy, do i hope it's the guy?, yeah, so the family can have some closure, even tho the heartache will always remain for the loss of jonbenet ~ it is all just so sad ~

[MacMan]

Originally Posted by macfanken

I just want to know... has Nancy Grace's head exploded yet?

That woman kills me! She's fun to watch actually.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

because of recent reports saying he is very much considering leaving the US due to the media invading his home in Michigan.

Seems kinda strange to me.



Kinda interesting that the news just reported that authorities found something coincidental written in Karr's high school year book, The saying "Shall Be The Conqueror", which is similar to the "S.B.T.C." that was signed on the ransom note

You know, I don't know much about the content of that note, but it sounds like it was pretty disjointed and crazy. This seems to match the suspect quite well so maybe there is hope that there will finally be a conviction in this case.

[gldstwmn]

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.ph...2-114012-8079r

Ramsey suspect's mother tried to kill him
ATLANTA, Aug. 22 (UPI) -- The mother of a man who claims to have killed JonBenet Ramsey tried to kill him when he was very young, a friend of the family said in Georgia.

George McCrary, who says he has known Wexford Karr, father of suspect John Karr, for 40 years, said the suspect's mother, Patricia Elaine Adcock, "made a big round donut (of kindling) and put him in the middle of it" when he was a baby, ABC News reported Tuesday.

"She just boxed the little baby in and tried to light it," McCrary said, but John's older brother Michael "came running in just before she got the flame to the flammable material."

Adcock was committed to a mental institution and the marriage broke up. She died in 2000.

McCray told ABC the event had lasting effects on John Karr.

"From the time his mother tried to kill him -- he's been out-and-out paranoid that someone's going to try and kill him or take advantage of him," McCrary told ABC News. "He needs a psychiatrist worse than anyone I've ever met in my life."

[gldstwmn]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...934911,00.html

Handwriting expert points finger at Karr
'At least a dozen traits' link ransom note and yearbook, he says

By Lou Kilzer, Rocky Mountain News
August 22, 2006
A well-known national handwriting expert said Monday he is 99.9 percent certain John Mark Karr wrote the ransom note found near the scene of JonBenet Ramsey's murder.
"Most guys are riding the fence," said Curt Baggett, the Texas-based co-founder of the School of Forensic Document Examination. "But there are at least a dozen traits that match up perfectly, when comparing a (high school) yearbook signed by Karr and the ransom note."

Some of those traits are fairly common, while others are rare, he said. That there are so many similarities pushes the odds up into the seven digits.

To put it another way, Baggett said, the "chances are a million-to- one" that someone other than Karr wrote the ransom note.

The issue of handwriting could be critical. If DNA evidence in the 10-year-old case proves inconclusive, what might most connect a killer to the scene is the ransom note found on a stairway in the Ramseys' Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996.

Other experts are less certain than Baggett about the note's origin, and they expect competing testimony should the case ever go to trial.

Handwriting expert Peggy Walla, also from Texas, said the issue is burning up the Internet as experts write back and forth.

"There are groups of us that are working on this internationally," she said. "We have little arguments, like 'no, I don't see this and I see that.' "

Walla said she studied under Baggett and that he is regarded as one of the nation's top handwriting authorities. Baggett said he has provided expert testimony in court cases in all 50 states.

Boulder police almost immediately suspected John and Patsy Ramsey in the death of their 6-year-old daughter, placing them under an "umbrella of suspicion."

Experts later ruled out John Ramsey as the writer of the note, but some questions remained concerning Patsy Ramsey.

Last week, police in Thailand said Karr confessed to the slaying. He was expelled from the country, arriving in California late Sunday night, and he is now in a Los Angeles jail awaiting extradition to Colorado.

Lining up behind Baggett in his assessment is his son, Bart, who is president of Handwriting University, an organization that trains and certifies handwriting experts.

"There are a lot of similarities," Bart Baggett said from his offices in Los Angeles. "Quite a few, actually. Significant similarities."

"When I saw the yearbook, it was just shocking. It was wow! (The similarities) are more than just chance. I would definitely lean toward Karr being the author of this note."

Still, he said he would like to see originals and a lot more samples from Karr before sticking his head out too far.

"We do most of our business by fax," he said. "Usually you can tell. But this case has so much weighing on it. It would be great to get more samples."

He said he is withholding a final verdict until he gets the writing under a microscope.

Document examiner Don Lehew also is staking part of his reputation on saying Karr is the likely writer of the Ramsey ransom note, based on samples from the yearbook.

"And that's not something you go off half-cocked about because it will come back and bite you," Lehew said.

One person who could find himself on the other side from the Baggetts and Lehew is Honolulu document examiner Reed Hayes, author of a textbook on forensic handwriting analysis.

"I do see a few similarities between the writing in the yearbook and the so-called ransom note, but not enough that I would identify him as the writer.

"In fact, I would lean more toward him not being the writer."

Hayes said he is very conservative in making handwriting matches.

Ronald Morris, a Virginia-based expert who spent 23 years as a document examiner with the Secret Service, said everyone is getting ahead of themselves. He said making conclusions without seeing the actual document is "absolute BS."

He said faxes or newspaper reproductions are two-dimensional, and that actual documents are in 3-D - meaning the amount of pressure a person applies to the pen and the actual dimensions of the lettering are critical in forming an opinion.

Lehew said he, too, would like to see the originals, but "I don't think the FBI is going to give them to me."

What seems clear, Texas expert Walla and others said, is that there are more similarities between Karr's yearbook and the ransom note than any that supposedly linked JonBenet's mother to the case.

Is there a match with Karr?

Said Walla: "I would say this guy is pretty damn close."

But even those who are leaning hard toward the conclusion that Karr's yearbook writing is quite similar to the ransom note, say his later writing on a job application bore almost no similarities.

"His handwriting has changed considerably since the yearbook," said Walla.

Curt Baggett agreed.

"We did not find similarities on the application," he said.

The 12 points of similarity that Curt Baggett notes included the writing of the small letters "a" and "f" - which he said included "a very unusual trait."

The letter "t" was crossed in the same place and the majority were crossed on the right.

Curt Baggett said he isn't concerned that he has taken the lead on the identification of Karr as the ransom note's author.

"It takes guts to make a decision," he said. "Most people want to wait and see."

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

But even those who are leaning hard toward the conclusion that Karr's yearbook writing is quite similar to the ransom note, say his later writing on a job application bore almost no similarities.

"His handwriting has changed considerably since the yearbook," said Walla.

Curt Baggett agreed.

"We did not find similarities on the application," he said.

The 12 points of similarity that Curt Baggett notes included the writing of the small letters "a" and "f" - which he said included "a very unusual trait."

The letter "t" was crossed in the same place and the majority were crossed on the right.

a report that some handwriting expert said Karr's handwriting wasnt a match, then another said it was.

Another news-talking-head wondered it Karr may have changed his handwriting to emulate that of the person who wrote the ransom note.



The one thing that always puzzled me about the ransom note:

The ransom amount of $118,000

Seems more than coincidental that the $118,000 figure is the exact amount that Jon Ramsey would make as a bonus through his business.

Who exactly knew that amount besides Jon Ramsey?

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

a report that some handwriting expert said Karr's handwriting wasnt a match, then another said it was.

Another news-talking-head wondered it Karr may have changed his handwriting to emulate that of the person who wrote the ransom note.

I'm sorry, but they are all basically pulling stuff out of their rears at this point. Meaning the news folks.

[Rickypt]

Originally Posted by MacMan

That woman kills me! She's fun to watch actually.

She is in small doses. I love how she asks her guest a question, he/she gets about three words out, Grace interrupts to say why they are wrong, and they she screams "and I don't see anything funny about this either".

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.ph...2-114012-8079r

Ramsey suspect's mother tried to kill him
ATLANTA, Aug. 22 (UPI) -- The mother of a man who claims to have killed JonBenet Ramsey tried to kill him when he was very young, a friend of the family said in Georgia.

George McCrary, who says he has known Wexford Karr, father of suspect John Karr, for 40 years, said the suspect's mother, Patricia Elaine Adcock, "made a big round donut (of kindling) and put him in the middle of it" when he was a baby, ABC News reported Tuesday.

"She just boxed the little baby in and tried to light it," McCrary said, but John's older brother Michael "came running in just before she got the flame to the flammable material."

Adcock was committed to a mental institution and the marriage broke up. She died in 2000.

McCray told ABC the event had lasting effects on John Karr.

"From the time his mother tried to kill him -- he's been out-and-out paranoid that someone's going to try and kill him or take advantage of him," McCrary told ABC News. "He needs a psychiatrist worse than anyone I've ever met in my life."

whoa....nuggets of a defense people.....

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

a report that some handwriting expert said Karr's handwriting wasnt a match, then another said it was.

Another news-talking-head wondered it Karr may have changed his handwriting to emulate that of the person who wrote the ransom note.



The one thing that always puzzled me about the ransom note:

The ransom amount of $118,000

Seems more than coincidental that the $118,000 figure is the exact amount that Jon Ramsey would make as a bonus through his business.

Who exactly knew that amount besides Jon Ramsey?

sounds like Im not the only person who suspects there is more to John Ramsey than meets the eye....