I'm So Afraid....as a rap song?

[seeker007nmss]

Rap..... ugh. Another untalented group who has to sample rather than writing their own music.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by seeker007nmss

Rap..... ugh. Another untalented group who has to sample rather than writing their own music.

It truly boggles my mind that a Stevie Nicks fan would dare criticize another artist for not writing their own music. The woman knows no more than four chords, and half the time she has someone else write her music for her. The rest of the time, she has someone else arrange and produce it for her. And of course, let us not forget that two of her biggest hits are based on riffs stolen from Prince and The Police.

Not that anyone ought to expect many intelligent or informed opinions about rap music on a Fleetwood Mac message board, but still.

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

It truly boggles my mind that a Stevie Nicks fan would dare criticize another artist for not writing their own music. The woman knows no more than four chords, and half the time she has someone else write her music for her. The other rest of the time, she has someone else arrange it for her. And of course, let us not forget that two of her biggest hits are based on riffs stolen from Prince and The Police.

Not that anyone ought to expect many intelligent or informed opinions about rap music on a Fleetwood Mac message board, but still.

Yup Sara, Gypsie, Rhiannon all stolen riffs. Yup.

Okay....Everytime I see a rap group, Where is the Band? Bad poetry and a bass machine? OOh...and scratch records? there you go. Let's complain about the "hood" while sitting on expensive cars, wearing tacky "bling" and degrating women in the video. Throw in cursing and attitude, Oh yeah, I am all over it. Real classy.

I don't care what people listen too. Each there own. But I can't stand having to listen to it every time I pull up to a light in traffic cause they have the bass high enough to remove my fillings.

And I highly doubt any rap group will last 30+ years.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by seeker007nmss

Yup Sara, Gypsie, Rhiannon all stolen riffs. Yup.

The "riffs" on those songs weren't stolen, they were given to her free of charge by Lindsey.

Okay....Everytime I see a rap group, Where is the Band?

I don't know, man. I have a similar problem every time I go to the Philharmonic. "Where's the f***ing guitars?!" I yell. But instead of admitting the legitimacy of my point, they just throw me out on the street.

This other time I went to this Andy Warhol exhibition, and I was like, "Dude! You didn't even draw that! That's just some picture of Marilyn Monroe! Double you tee eff?" They threw me out of there too.

If you're really dying to see a hip hop "band," though, I'd suggest The Roots.

Bad poetry and a bass machine?

Yeah, at least Stevie doesn't use a bass machine.

OOh...and scratch records? there you go. Let's complain about the "hood" while sitting on expensive cars, wearing tacky "bling" and degrating women in the video. Throw in cursing and attitude, Oh yeah, I am all over it. Real classy.

Yes, there sure is a lot of really ****ty rap music out there. And there sure are a lot of god awful rappers who flaunt their wealth and treat women like crap and rap about idiotic ****. Just as there are ****ty songs and ****ty, stereotypical artists in any genre of music. But what does that have to do with this group that you know absolutely nothing about?

And I highly doubt any rap group will last 30+ years.

The Beatles lasted nine. But regardless, there really aren't very many rap "groups" to begin with.

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

But what does that have to do with this group that you know absolutely nothing about?

Because I want to lump them all in one group and not look into it any farther than I have too. It is so much easier to make sweeping statements than actually look at possible facts.

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

This other time I went to this Andy Warhol exhibition, and I was like, "Dude! You didn't even draw that! That's just some picture of Marilyn Monroe! Double you tee eff?" They threw me out of there too.

.

You too! I thought I was the only one!

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by seeker007nmss

Because I want to lump them all in one group and not look into it any farther than I have too. It is so much easier to make sweeping statements than actually look at possible facts.

That's all I was looking for. Thanks!

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

That's all I was looking for. Thanks!

Okay, one jumping kitty for you!

[sodascouts]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

The "riffs" on those songs weren't stolen, they were given to her free of charge by Lindsey.

Rhiannon, I'll grant you. Gypsy, to a degree. Sara? You gotta be kidding me.

[Jason T.]

Originally Posted by SweetGirl24

Why is everyone so negative?

I'm not entirely sure -- one would think that they would be interested in finding out which song it is before deciding that it is the worst thing that has ever happened to Fleetwood Mac -- HELLO -- Courtney Love...

And personally -- categorizing an entire genre based on the mainstream is completely invalid and cruel...I think it would be awesome if Fleetwood Mac's influence spread beyond the Pop/Rock base.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

The "riffs" on those songs weren't stolen, they were given to her free of charge by Lindsey.

I believe it was Stevie who wrote the "Rhiannon" "riff" -- it's certainly present in even the oldest piano demos I've heard for the song. Lindsey simply translated it to guitar.
I also believe the "riff" to "Gypsy" was written before Lindsey worked on it and is present in the demos/outtakes she recorded during the 'Bella Donna' session.
And the more I read, it seems Lindsey had very little to do with the construction of "Sara"... so if credit really belongs to anyone other than Stevie, it was Tom Moncrief.

As far as rap -- hopefully I'm allowed to say that I don't care for it much, without sounding close-minded. There have been a few tracks I've liked to one degree or another, but nothing that's ever truly impressed me or stuck with me. I'm too much of a melody & harmony kind of guy.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I believe it was Stevie who wrote the "Rhiannon" "riff" -- it's certainly present in even the oldest piano demos I've heard for the song. Lindsey simply translated it to guitar.
I also believe the "riff" to "Gypsy" was written before Lindsey worked on it and is present in the demos/outtakes she recorded during the 'Bella Donna' session.
And the more I read, it seems Lindsey had very little to do with the construction of "Sara"... so if credit really belongs to anyone other than Stevie, it was Tom Moncrief.

Yep, I'm sure you're right. She's a genius. She's a regular Blob Dylan!

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

As far as rap -- hopefully I'm allowed to say that I don't care for it much, without sounding close-minded. There have been a few tracks I've liked to one degree or another, but nothing that's ever truly impressed me or stuck with me. I'm too much of a melody & harmony kind of guy.

On THIS, we agree, my friend. Rap blows goats.

[Johnny Stew]

Speaking of one-note songs....

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

Yep, I'm sure you're right. She's a genius. She's a regular Blob Dylan!

I never said she's a genius, Homeslice... but I think when comparing and contrasting the earliest demos of each of these songs to the finished tracks, it becomes clear that what most people consider to be the basic "riff" of each, was indeed written by Stevie on the piano.

[David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I believe it was Stevie who wrote the "Rhiannon" "riff" -- it's certainly present in even the oldest piano demos I've heard for the song. Lindsey simply translated it to guitar.

No she didn't do it right. She used major & minor thirds all the way through the riff, but that's dumb. When you get to the end of the first half of the riff, you have to maintain the A minor, so you need to use a fourth, not a third. Lindsey turned that one third into a fourth. Not that it makes a huge difference--I doubt more than fifty people on the Ledge even recognize it--but it was an incorrect Stevie interval. Plus, Stevie didn't give the "riff" any real metrical value: the chords all fall right on the quarter-note downbeat. Lindsey gave the "riff" an appropriate short-fast metrical pattern, a syncopative value. The world has been singing it ever since.

I also believe the "riff" to "Gypsy" was written before Lindsey worked on it and is present in the demos/outtakes she recorded during the 'Bella Donna' session.

Uhh, which riff are you talking about? Lindsey added the only riff I can hear: the pentatonic arpeggio. The Heartbreakers weren't doing that. The only thing they do is just jam away on the chord progression. I mean, that pentatonic thing adds the singular quality to the whole song. I even took that pentatonic riff & wrote a little song when I was a teenager, which I will post here if no one minds. The whole thing was built from & developed from the Gypsy pentatonic riff.

And the more I read, it seems Lindsey had very little to do with the construction of "Sara"... so if credit really belongs to anyone other than Stevie, it was Tom Moncrief.

I'm sorry but I doubt it. I think Stevie essentially constructed Sara. Now here is an instance where Stevie's piano riff (not just the notes but the metrical value) is carried over verbatim into the final product.

As far as rap -- hopefully I'm allowed to say that I don't care for it much, without sounding close-minded.

What does aesthetic taste have to do with closedmindedness or openmindedness, which are intellectual qualities rather than emotional responses to aesthetics? Just say: I hate rap music.

I sure do!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by David

No she didn't do it right.

I realize that Lindsey tweaked it... I shouldn't have said "he simply translated it to guitar." That's not totally accurate. But, the basics were already there before Lindsey worked on it, no? So I wouldn't say that he "gave" her that riff, as Jyqm worded it. If anything, I'd say he "fixed" it.

Originally Posted by David

Uhh, which riff are you talking about? Lindsey added the only riff I can hear: the pentatonic arpeggio. The Heartbreakers weren't doing that. The only thing they do is just jam away on the chord progression.

I guess it's the chord progression that I'm hearing, and considered to be the "riff" Stevie would have written. But I see your point about what Lindsey added to the song, and I'll concede that that's the more memorable part of the music.

Originally Posted by David

I'm sorry but I doubt it. I think Stevie essentially constructed Sara.

No need to apologize -- I just didn't want to downplay whatever role Moncrief may have played in the construction of "Sara."

Originally Posted by David

Just say: I hate rap music.

David says it's ok, so... I HATE RAP (I can't bear to call it "music")!