For Penguin discog, polls clean up discussion

[wetcamelfood]

Further to our discussion about the oddball issue of how to code songs that originated from another artist that a FM member covered later that "just happen to be in the discog" (since that's what was decided by the last vote), I've started this thread for discussion since this can't really be done in poll mode but I will start polls for the suggestions that are brought up here related to this topic.

Since I had the polls up for 10 days, Let's just say here that any ops to be given should be posted in this thread on or before 5/15/06.

So when you look at an album like "The Early Blues Roots Of Fleetwood Mac, Under The Influence Vol. 2":

http://discog.fleetwoodmac.net/discog.php?pid=249

...it needs to have at least one sorting group attached to it (or no one will ever know it's there). So, these are the current sorting group choices:

Official Albums (specifically put out by the package's main artist/toured behind (e.g. Rumours, Tusk, etc.) or a reissue they were significantly involved in the making of, such as the Rhino remasters, Rumours DVD Audio, etc.)
Guest Appearances (e.g. SN/LB on John Stewart's "Bombs away dream babies" etc.)
Other (for albums not really released by the artist but not an outright bootleg either, such as the Boston Tea Party stuff etc. BTW, we've been looking for ideas on a better category name for this but can't come up with one. We don't want to use "Un/Non Official" because that implies that these are bootlegs & though some may feel they are, others don't. So we need something neutral, please post any ideas for this here & we'll poll the resulting choices)
Live Recordings (per the live poll, only packages with live tracks FM members appear on will have this tag attached)
Production Roles (for FM member "appearances" on packages unlike the recording nature, such as LB's cover art on Turley Richard's "Therfu" album, writing only credits, etc.)
Soundtracks (per soundtrack poll, also includes singles that included songs FM members on that appeared on soundtracks)
Various Artists (per V/A poll, added to packages that have 4 or more main artists)
Vintage Bootlegs (pre 1995, this is for outright boots like Sin City, Merely a portmanteau, etc.)
Multidisc Releases (per multidisc poll, attached to packages where a known multidisc version release of some kind existed on a package)
Tributes (e.g. For the Love Of Harry...", "Twang!..." etc.)
Benefits (e.g. "We are the world", "The stars come out for Christmas..." etc.)
Promotional Item (e.g. "Best buy tour '97" (which I'll speak to Marty about regarding those sorting issues we spoke of last time), "Stormy Weather", etc.)
Original Vinyl/CD Single (e.g. "Go your own way/Silver springs")
Reissue Vinyl/CD Single (e.g. "Don't stop/Silver springs")

Right now, we have it just under V/A but until we get used to how things sort, these could very well easily change (& naturally anything that pops up after we decide that I think we should hash around I'll post about here like I have been), but for now are we in agreement that none of the others really apply to this album? V/A albums could come under "Other" as well if wanted but if we do that then they'll be mixed in with one artist "Other" albums too (e.g. "The Female Touch 2" would be next to the likes of "Live In Boston Remastered Vol. 1" if you went to the FM page & chose the "Other" drop down), so like the soundtracks etc. it's probably best to keep them separate, unless again of course the masses here feel differently in which case we'll discuss/poll). Tributes would be the next closest one but as discussed before in cases like this it could be almost be viewed as the opposite of the true Tribute meaning.

This is where BklynBlue's idea came in:

Originally Posted by BklynBlue

why not a separate section entitled: Originals/Additional Interpretations

This would work for all cases of "other artist first, then FM related version". However, & maybe it's me but the wording of this choice needs to be changed so it jives with the other choices in the above list, you know what I mean?

I've been trying to think of some but need some ideas. Please post your ideas here so we can poll them.

Originally Posted by BklynBlue

The original recordings could be highlighted somehow, or simply listed by date of release

Unfortunately the date of release thing won't work since the database isn't set up that way, though if you have recording dates I can enter those in to the other performance details fields (or release dates in the performance comments fields).

Also, Marty doesn't really want to do more font styles if we can help it (so we just have regular, bold & bold/italics for now on song titles) & per the decision in the poll about it, the non FM member related versions will just be bold for now.

If we find we really need another option I'll speak to Marty as we had kicked around the idea of having different colors for artist names (like how the FM member names are bold, the artist name would be in italics if they did a Penguin Q&A/have a bio (etc.), blue if it was an artist that was in another band with a FM member (e.g. Stan Webb, John Mayall, etc.) but he's afriad it'll be too much.

There are options for red, greem & purple on artists as well but none of these are available on songs (I don't even know if he can build that in or not since we did have some problems with the bold on song titles before).

I do see his point though, with all the interweavings throughout the FM discog, we really should try to avoid many more if we can.

Originally Posted by BklynBlue

Rather than list every version of a given song, (especially in the case of a blues classic or standard) just give a basic cross section of others who may have recorded it, leaning towards those whom users of this site may find interesting - this is an admittedly scatter-shot approach, but for anyone seeking to dig further into any given number, they can use the information here to get them started on their own inquiries or use the forums to seek additional information and/or suggestions.

Per the vote we just had, I'd have to concur with David that we can't get into picking & choosing whose versions of these songs are worthy of inclusion & since it was voted to NOT specifically add in other artists versions of these songs for this reason alone, we're probably best to stick with our decision. Besides, the database is set up to only add new or edit existing packages, it's not like the old "Songs covered" page which was just a list. So it's either we add a package in or we don't & per the above said...

This category we're debating now is just for linking up the other versions of these songs that will "just happen to be in the discog" (due to being included on an album that's included in the discog for a more relevant reason (etc.)".

Originally Posted by BklynBlue

The example that you chose, (The Roots Of Fleetwood Mac) is indeed, truly a nightmare for a database such as this

I agree! So:

1. Which sorting groups should we attach to "The Early Blues Roots Of Fleetwood Mac, Under The Influence Vol. 2"?

2. Any ideas on another wording for the "Other" sorting group?

3. Should we add an "Originals/Additional Interpretations" category for such versions of songs that "happen to be included"?

3A. If so, any ideas on another wording for the "Originals/Additional Interpretations" sorting group?

Thanks for the ops in advance.

John

[wetcamelfood]

Figured I'd give this a bump since I had the other discog thread thoughts too.

In case you don't want to wade through the above here's the questons in this thread again in a nutshell:

Originally Posted by wetcamelfood

1. Which sorting groups should we attach to "The Early Blues Roots Of Fleetwood Mac, Under The Influence Vol. 2"?

2. Any ideas on another wording for the "Other" sorting group?

3. Should we add an "Originals/Additional Interpretations" category for such versions of songs that "happen to be included"?

3A. If so, any ideas on another wording for the "Originals/Additional Interpretations" sorting group?

John

[wetcamelfood]

Um, bump?

John