REQ: The Other Side of the Mirror - Page 2

David · #16 04-21-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

David - can you be more specific on a poorly produced section? Like on LWTG, for instance, what's the problem?
It's obviously overproduced, but I think sometimes Stevie's late voice needs that.

I don't recognize "overproduction" as a technical problem in any area of pop music (it's an artistic choice the producer makes, it's his vision, his conception of the song), but bad engineering is pretty recognizable. Think of the way the volume drops out about halfway through "Escape from Berlin." Also, somebody mentioned the whistles on "I Still Miss Someone." But the problem with the whistles isn't that they're there, it's that they're recorded & mixed poorly. They are tintinabulatory tinny to the fastidious ear because they are too high end & engineered poorly. Remember, engineering is the craft of correcting the problems you had with microphones & recording (& even with bad vocal takes). But if your engineer is asleep at the wheel, or just not very gifted, or possibly suffering from a cold or a sinus headache that day--anything that would affect his ear--you get a track with bad sound & bad levels in both instrumentation & vocals.

amber · #17 04-21-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't recognize "overproduction" as a technical problem in any area of pop music (it's an artistic choice the producer makes, it's his vision, his conception of the song), but bad engineering is pretty recognizable. Think of the way the volume drops out about halfway through "Escape from Berlin." Also, somebody mentioned the whistles on "I Still Miss Someone." But the problem with the whistles isn't that they're there, it's that they're recorded & mixed poorly. They are tintinabulatory tinny to the fastidious ear because they are too high end & engineered poorly. Remember, engineering is the craft of correcting the problems you had with microphones & recording (& even with bad vocal takes). But if your engineer is asleep at the wheel, or just not very gifted, or possibly suffering from a cold or a sinus headache that day--anything that would affect his ear--you get a track with bad sound & bad levels in both instrumentation & vocals.

Er...I can't think of those parts, that's why I asked you to name something on LWTG.

Johnny Stew · #18 04-21-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Think of the way the volume drops out about halfway through "Escape from Berlin."

I've never been able to pinpoint exactly which part of the song you're referring to, when you mention the "volume dropout." Everything in the mix sounds intentional to my ears... the only spot that I can find that I think you might be referring to, is at the 3:52 mark, right as the song kicks into its climax. But even that sounds intentional to me, rather than a goof or a lapse.

Also, though you mentioned you'd like to see Stevie re-record some of these songs with someone other than Rupert Hine, it seems that you have more of a problem with whomever it was that engineered the album than with the actual production.

foxyluva · #19 04-22-2006, 12:27 AM

People tend to forget that OSOTM is Stevie's magical album - the production represents this, and I personally think it sounds fine

Jyqm · #20 04-22-2006, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxyluva

People tend to forget that OSOTM is Stevie's magical album - the production represents this, and I personally think it sounds fine

There's nothing magical about synthesizers. They're about the most unmagical instrument I can think of.

Ditto Kenny G.

AliceLover · #21 04-22-2006, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

There's nothing magical about synthesizers. They're about the most unmagical instrument I can think of.

Ditto Kenny G.

I think quite the contrary (sp?), I think it is very magical.

Angelick Witch · #22 04-22-2006, 08:05 AM

Whenever I listen to I Still Miss Someone I always think that there's a ... something of a gap, I guess, between her words and vocals, and the music, with the whistling and all. It sounds like she sang this song in all seriousness, and someone put the whistling in behind it as a joke. It's not a happy song.

Apart from that I love that song. And the rest of the album.

seekerj · #23 04-22-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliceLover

I think quite the contrary (sp?), I think it is very magical.

I've always thought of this album as "The Rupert Hine Show with special guest Stevie Nicks".

- Jim

Jyqm · #24 04-22-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelick Witch

Whenever I listen to I Still Miss Someone I always think that there's a ... something of a gap, I guess, between her words and vocals, and the music, with the whistling and all. It sounds like she sang this song in all seriousness, and someone put the whistling in behind it as a joke. It's not a happy song.

Apart from that I love that song. And the rest of the album.

I know it's easy to blame the musical arrangement and production on the failure of this song, but I really think an even bigger problem than the silly whistles is the fact... that Stevie... sings it... so... slow... and flat. She almost makes it a dirge. The fact that her version is more than twice as long as the original without even including the second verse is telling. Stevie's recording just drags and drags. It's listless.

Which isn't to say that this song can't be sung slowly and in more of a ballad-type arrangement than the original. It can. But there needs to be some oomph there, in both the music and the vocal. It's got to be sung with at least some level of emotion and power. Stevie takes the pitiful jilted lover routine to a new low with her vocal on this, though. She sounds like she's just downed a whole bottle of Klonopin.

David · #25 04-22-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxyluva

People tend to forget that OSOTM is Stevie's magical album - the production represents this, and I personally think it sounds fine

That's cool. I just don't think Kenny G.ish "smooth jazz" is magickal. When Stevie is bellowing like a banshee on the title song "Wild Heart" in 1983, THAT is magickal to me.

David · #26 04-22-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Also, though you mentioned you'd like to see Stevie re-record some of these songs with someone other than Rupert Hine, it seems that you have more of a problem with whomever it was that engineered the album than with the actual production.

The executive producer probably oversees the engineering. I have about an equal problem with both, to tell you the truth. Techne + ideation = both bum me out.

Johnny Stew · #27 04-22-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

There's nothing magical about synthesizers. They're about the most unmagical instrument I can think of.

Ditto Kenny G.

God help me, but I love synths... at least when they're balanced with traditional instruments. 'Mirror' is a little too synth-heavy, in my opinion. Whereas her two prior albums had enough guitars and real drums to give them legs, 'Mirror' only has drum machines and Kenny G.

I think Rupert Hine was the right producer for some of the songs, but I don't think he was at all right for many others.

Johnny Stew · #28 04-22-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jyqm

I know it's easy to blame the musical arrangement and production on the failure of this song, but I really think an even bigger problem than the silly whistles is the fact... that Stevie... sings it... so... slow... and flat. She almost makes it a dirge. The fact that her version is more than twice as long as the original without even including the second verse is telling. Stevie's recording just drags and drags. It's listless.

I think Stevie's vocal is the only saving grace for "I Still Miss Someone" (though I'm sure that doesn't come as too big of a surprise). My opinion is that the backing music is just all wrong.

I introduced one of my cousins to Stevie's music around 1989/1990, and, oddly enough, one of her favorite songs on 'Mirror' was "I Still Miss Someone." Even to the point that she was disappointed it was included on 'Timespace.'

As far as listless, Klonopin vocals go... my vote for the absolute worst offender, is the 'Street Angel' outtake of "If You Were My Love."
Ugh. Talk about sapping a song of all of its passion!