All We Are Saying

[Boots]

I don't know what anyone here expects from Stevie when she discusses not having children. She is basically implying that her life of fame and rock and roll and partying and touring are all enveloped into a selfishness that she couldn't inflict upon a child...hence her not having any. The only person who had kids during the height of FM's success was Mick, and he cocked that up tremendously...he never saw them, his marriage and sexual proclivities were a mess. Don't you think that Stevie witnessed as well as lived that life and came to the conclusion that she couldn't do this to a kid? Or that she couldn't take a child away from school and friends so that Mommy could go to Australia for a tour, or go to Europe to support an album? It happened to her when she was a child, but her dad was a company executive. She probably didn't want her kid to be so uprooted like she was AND have this insane celebrity life too.

It's also pretty unfair to denounce her statements that she couldn't have kids while with Fleetwood Mac claiming, that assuming that wanted to party too much to have them. As mentioned, Christine didn't have children either, and her partying ways weren't of the same level as Stevie's. Also, Lindsey didn't have kids until very much later in life himself, and that's only because he's a man and his "boys" can still swim past a certain age. Same thing with John. He didn't have kids until the FM craziness died down. Mick was the only one with kids, and again, as mentioned...his lifestyle - selfish or not (and there is an element of selfishness in how we chose our lives) wasn't so great on them.

Give the lady credit. This was a personal decision by her, and I as a fan have no right to tell her why she didn't want to bring kids into this world.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by Boots

I don't know what anyone here expects from Stevie when she discusses not having children. She is basically implying quite obviously that she didn't want to take her kids out of schools (as she was as a child), because of the insanity of her life, and the fact that her career obligations and travel were too intense for her to have children.

It's also pretty unfair to denounce her statements that she couldn't have kids while with Fleetwood Mac claiming, that assuming that wanted to party too much to have them. Christine didn't have children either, and her partying ways weren't of the same level as Stevie's. Also, Lindsey didn't have kids until very much later in life himself, and that's only because he's a man and his "boys" can still swim past a certain age. Same thing with John. He didn't have kids until the FM craziness died down. Mick was the only one with kids, and he beats himself on the head for how little time and attention he paid to them because of FM's touring and commitments. Don't cha think that Stevie would have observed that and realized she couldn't do that to her own kids?

Give the lady credit. This was a personal decision by her, and I as a fan have no right to tell her why she didn't want to bring kids into this world.

sometimes i'm stunned by the things you say because it seems as if you take the words straight from my brain! i'm glad to see an opinion i agree with in this discussion without having to expend the energy to type it out myself

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

See, I do not see it as a selfish thing in that she made a choice for the benefit of the child. In other words, she says she thought the child would suffer from her absence, so she opted not to have one, which to me is different than saying screw it, I want to party. I mean she could have had a child up until say 2000, which was long after the partying days. Interestingly, in older interviews, she talks about retiring and having kids, which we now know never happened.

But, to each their own

Yes, what you are saying make sense and even though I've always taken issue with Stevie's response to why she opted not to have kids after this documentary I have to say I understand it a little more. Maybe she was actually being very unselfish in saying she wouldn't have been able to give her child the life it deserved is she continued being a rock star and that's perfectly understandable (although I still contend there are plenty of rock stars who have been wonderful parents). A lot of the artists that were featured said you really do have to make a choice and give up a whole lot to have kids with this life and she obviously didn't want to do that. Maybe I'm just sick of hearing her say the same thing over and over lol.

[Boots]

Originally Posted by carrie721

sometimes i'm stunned by the things you say because it seems as if you take the words straight from my brain! i'm glad to see an opinion i agree with in this discussion without having to expend the energy to type it out myself

Thanks, Carrie! I worry that I sound too harsh, but I guess that's the only way I can get my point across.

[strandinthewind]

^^^

me too (hearing the same thing that is)

Also, if you factor in that she had at least one abortion (self admitted) - she really made that choice, which to me is sad and lonely.

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by Boots

I don't know what anyone here expects from Stevie when she discusses not having children. She is basically implying that her life of fame and rock and roll and partying and touring are all enveloped into a selfishness that she couldn't inflict upon a child...hence her not having any. The only person who had kids during the height of FM's success was Mick, and he cocked that up tremendously...he never saw them, his marriage and sexual proclivities were a mess. Don't you think that Stevie witnessed as well as lived that life and came to the conclusion that she couldn't do this to a kid? Or that she couldn't take a child away from school and friends so that Mommy could go to Australia for a tour, or go to Europe to support an album? It happened to her when she was a child, but her dad was a company executive. She probably didn't want her kid to be so uprooted like she was AND have this insane celebrity life too.

It's also pretty unfair to denounce her statements that she couldn't have kids while with Fleetwood Mac claiming, that assuming that wanted to party too much to have them. As mentioned, Christine didn't have children either, and her partying ways weren't of the same level as Stevie's. Also, Lindsey didn't have kids until very much later in life himself, and that's only because he's a man and his "boys" can still swim past a certain age. Same thing with John. He didn't have kids until the FM craziness died down. Mick was the only one with kids, and again, as mentioned...his lifestyle - selfish or not (and there is an element of selfishness in how we chose our lives) wasn't so great on them.

Give the lady credit. This was a personal decision by her, and I as a fan have no right to tell her why she didn't want to bring kids into this world.

Thanks for that Boots, this is why I love discussion boards. I'm always open to hearing perspectives that differ from mine and and willing to be open minded, especially when it comes to Stevie. You have made a lot of good points here and I will definitely take these into consideration. I also hope you can at least see where I'm coming from even if you don't totally agree.

She is basically implying that her life of fame and rock and roll and partying and touring are all enveloped into a selfishness that she couldn't inflict upon a child

I guess I just wish she would come out and say something more along those lines instead of "I couldn't have had this career and children".

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

See, I do not see it as a selfish thing in that she made a choice for the benefit of the child.

I don't think she was being selfish, either. What makes me groan is the stance she adopts in discussing her decision: she paints herself as this tragic, martyred figure, like a character in a romance novel -- "I sacrificed all for my art"

She gets off on thinking of herself as a Tosca, whose big aria goes:

Vissi d'arte, vissi d'amore
non feci mai male ad anima viva
Con man furtiva
quante miserie conobbi, aiutai
Sempre con fe sincera
la mia preghiera
ai santi tabernacoli sali
Sempre con fe sincera
diedi fiori agli altar

I lived for art, I lived for love
Never did I harm a living creature!
Whatever misfortunes I encountered
I sought with secret hand to succour
Ever in pure faith
my prayers rose
in the holy chapels
Ever in pure faith
I brought flowers to the altars
in this hour of pain

That's why critics call Stevie a self-important, narcissistic figure.

[strandinthewind]

"O Scarpia, avanti a Dio . . . "

O Scarpia, today in front of God we will both be judged for our sins.

Monsarrat Caballe's Tosca was indeed sublime.

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by David

I don't think she was being selfish, either. What makes me groan is the stance she adopts in discussing her decision: she paints herself as this tragic, martyred figure, like a character in a romance novel -- "I sacrificed all for my art"

YES, exactly! That's what I'm saying, that is what bothers me most. The stance she adopts and the "great sacrifce" she made for her art, in turn making her look very self-important.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

IWhat I found the most interesting is that Debbie Harry (who also chose to not have children) gave a much more honest and rational reason in my opinion. She said she was a child and did not have the emotional maturity to raise a kid at the time and that now she still regrets sometimes that she didn't have children but could always adapt.

I thought Debbie's response was right on.

[JazmenFlowers]

I just watched this on Showtime and Stevie looked fabulous. I wish the camera angles would have been more of a direct shot, but she looked incredible, as did Debbie Harry.

[BlackWidow]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Must... resist... obvious... jab...

I KNOW..ME TOO...

[BlackWidow]

Originally Posted by David

I don't think she was being selfish, either. What makes me groan is the stance she adopts in discussing her decision: she paints herself as this tragic, martyred figure, like a character in a romance novel -- "I sacrificed all for my art"

She gets off on thinking of herself as a Tosca, whose big aria goes:

Vissi d'arte, vissi d'amore
non feci mai male ad anima viva
Con man furtiva
quante miserie conobbi, aiutai
Sempre con fe sincera
la mia preghiera
ai santi tabernacoli sali
Sempre con fe sincera
diedi fiori agli altar

I lived for art, I lived for love
Never did I harm a living creature!
Whatever misfortunes I encountered
I sought with secret hand to succour
Ever in pure faith
my prayers rose
in the holy chapels
Ever in pure faith
I brought flowers to the altars
in this hour of pain


That's why critics call Stevie a self-important, narcissistic figure.

SO TRUE!!!!!

[paperflowers]

Originally Posted by SapphireSister

I know that's what she means when she talks about this repeatedly but it almost comes off as an excuse as to why she didn't have children as opposed to an honest to God reason like Debbie said (did you hear Debbie's response?). It's like she needs to make excuses to herself and the press instead of just saying "I was selfish and didn't want to give up ANY of my career or partying ways." Something about it just irks me, like she's not taking responsibility for her decision and still has issues with her choice.

Oh and I didn't like the whole "FM would have broken up if I had kids". BS, plenty of female rock stars in bands have had kids and the bands didn't break up. Mick had kids back then and the band still stayed together. Another excuse that could have some amount of truth but again, an exagerration IMO.

She gives the same speech because every interviewer asks the same damn question.
Would FM have broken up if she got pregnant? Well Chris never had a kid , maybe there is something to it. Sharon never had a kid, Lori did and stopped going on the road. Look at who Stevie hangs around with, in her circle baby= no music career. That is her reality. To me Stevie Nicks is an all or nothing kinda chick, thats just her way.
Stevie choose not to raise a family that is not selfish ,she like every woman should be able to make that decision and she really shouldn't have to justify it.
Yes, Mick had children and sorry but its not the same for a guy it just isn't. Even he admits he didn't spend the time he should have with them (I'm talking about the kids from his first marriage here) and he regrets it. I believe his children spent most of thier childhood on another continent than him. Perhaps Stevie noted that also maybe to her it was another example of why it is'nt a good idea for her to have kids. Heck Lindsey was back out on the road within weeks of the birth of his youngest. For a woman it is not the same there would be outrage, scandal, and above all guilt.

I'm tired of the "I did it for my band" speech also, but I don't blame her as much as the unimaginative interviewers who don't press the issue or ask the question is a new way. Look at the Sandra Burnhart (sp?) interview. Sandra knew her subject and she got a "more" honest answer from Stevie, at least it was off the cuff and not the same rote speech.

I think the truth is more like Stevie kinda sorta planned on having a child but it was not high on her priority list, somewhere behind the Rhiannon movie and her book, and then "all of a sudden" it was too late. I really do not think she pines over it either. I think she is totally fine with being just what she is, the crazycoolfairygodmotherrockandrolldivabitch that we love.

[SapphireSister]

Originally Posted by paperflowers

She gives the same speech because every interviewer asks the same damn question.
Would FM have broken up if she got pregnant? Well Chris never had a kid , maybe there is something to it. Sharon never had a kid, Lori did and stopped going on the road. Look at who Stevie hangs around with, in her circle baby= no music career. That is her reality. To me Stevie Nicks is an all or nothing kinda chick, thats just her way.
Stevie choose not to raise a family that is not selfish ,she like every woman should be able to make that decision and she really shouldn't have to justify it.
Yes, Mick had children and sorry but its not the same for a guy it just isn't. Even he admits he didn't spend the time he should have with them (I'm talking about the kids from his first marriage here) and he regrets it. I believe his children spent most of thier childhood on another continent than him. Perhaps Stevie noted that also maybe to her it was another example of why it is'nt a good idea for her to have kids. Heck Lindsey was back out on the road within weeks of the birth of his youngest. For a woman it is not the same there would be outrage, scandal, and above all guilt.

I'm tired of the "I did it for my band" speech also, but I don't blame her as much as the unimaginative interviewers who don't press the issue or ask the question is a new way. Look at the Sandra Burnhart (sp?) interview. Sandra knew her subject and she got a "more" honest answer from Stevie, at least it was off the cuff and not the same rote speech.

I think the truth is more like Stevie kinda sorta planned on having a child but it was not high on her priority list, somewhere behind the Rhiannon movie and her book, and then "all of a sudden" it was too late. I really do not think she pines over it either. I think she is totally fine with being just what she is, the crazycoolfairygodmotherrockandrolldivabitch that we love.

Great post and I definitely here what you are saying loud and clear. After this discussion I have reconsidered my take on her whole reason for not having kids bit and am more open to just accepting what she says as the truth. To be honest I'm probably just tired of hearing the same response over and over and you are right, it's the interviewers' fault for repeating the same question. Besides, why is it such a big deal for a woman not to have children? Children are not for everyone and the sad part is a lot of people have kids that should just not be parents. Leave the woman alone already and anybody else for that matter who chooses not to have children.
I think it was Patty Smith in the movie who said you definitely have to be willing to give a part of yourself up if you want to have children and continue to lead the musicians' lifestyle and I also think it's different for different people. Stevie, for example, pretty much had 2 music careers (one solo and one FM) and not many female musicians were in this same boat. From 1975-1989 which were the prime years for her to have children she was either touring or recording practically every year so I see no time to raise a child.
Thanks everybody for showing me another side to this although I'm still a bit torn.