Muslims angered over cartoons? These?!?

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

**** no. I'm not asking you to approve of them one bit. Lord knows I don't. I'm just asking you to be reasonable and consider some of the facts we've got on the table (without citing loony Russian loudmoths as allegedly legitimate sources).

I'm all about being vigilant with regards to the utterly amoral will-to-power Bush administration. And if the signs and the rhetoric change and it looks like they're really calling for action in Iran or elsewhere without good reason, I'll be among the first to speak up against it. But for now, let's focus on the scams that they're actually trying to pull, like this ridiculous warrantless wiretapping business, or the ongoing we-should-be-allowed-to-torture-people scheme.

Now you're talking! Let's make a list!

• The get rid of Medicare plan
• The lets not fund Head Start plan
• The lets not fund PBS plan
• The keep the tax cuts for the rich at all costs plan
• We are at "war" but congress never declared it
• Etc...

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Now you're talking! Let's make a list!

• The get rid of Medicare plan
• The lets not fund Head Start plan
• The lets not fund PBS plan
• The keep the tax cuts for the rich at all costs plan
• We are at "war" but congress never declared it
• Etc...

Don't forget Fags are personally responsible for the Agony of Christ - so vote for me

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Do you think they turn a blind eye out of fear of the terrorists? Or do they actually condone the behavior? I'd like to think its the former. Still, they should do something since it is on their soil that the cells are cultivated.

and financed. and many families send their sons to Madrassas to be educated in hatred. As for your question I think its a combination of both.
Im sure there is a huge element of fear of reprisal, but when you see film clips of regular folks rejoicing that innocent Americans died, I get the impression that many of them are not at all unhappy about what the terrorists are doing.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Don't forget Fags are personally responsible for the Agony of Christ - so vote for me

I was going to add to the list but I'm afraid it will be hard for me to top that one.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Jyqm, I hope you are right though and that they do know that they cannot possibly extend us into another war. I feel like they do not have their feet on the ground enough to see this though.

They do. They're stupid and myopic, but they're not that stupid and myopic. Their main goal, after all, is to amass power and hold onto it. At the moment, they've amassed a ****load, but holding onto it is starting to look like it might be a bit of a problem. They're being bombarded with questions from left and right, nobody thinks that Iraq is going well, and they're actually getting nervous about mid-term elections.

Just look at how cowed their rhetoric has become in comparison to just a year ago. Look at the State of the Union address - no real initiatives, no calls to any kind of action, just a bunch of not-really-saying-anything about various domestic issues and a reiteration of the "stay the course in Iraq and everything will eventually get better" mantra. This was a placeholder speech - let's just try and keep things from totally falling apart and maybe people will stop noticing how much we've screwed up.

Quite frankly, I think they're scared ****less that this cartoon controversy might really get out of hand, or that Iran and/or Hamas might prove to be real threats. Because even if there are legitimate threats, they know that Americans simply aren't going to support anymore foreign incursions against brown people right now, and they're going to pay for it big time come November if it comes to that.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

and financed. and many families send their sons to Madrassas to be educated in hatred. As for your question I think its a combination of both.
Im sure there is a huge element of fear of reprisal, but when you see film clips of regular folks rejoicing that innocent Americans died, I get the impression that many of them are not at all unhappy about what the terrorists are doing.

I was under the impression that such celebrations were rare. That was so awful it made me physically ill to see it.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I was going to add to the list but I'm afraid it will be hard for me to top that one.

This is true. Also, if we have them all listed in one place, it may make us vomit.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Now you're talking! Let's make a list!

• The get rid of Medicare plan
• The lets not fund Head Start plan
• The lets not fund PBS plan
• The keep the tax cuts for the rich at all costs plan

Which are all part of the same let's-screw-the-stupid-non-rich-people-out-of-their-money-because-they're-too-stupid-to-know-any-better plan.

I love how they call things like Medicare "entitlement plans." I mean, nobody likes entitlement, right? Sounds like a bunch of those dirty liberals and minorities mooching off my tax dollars! We'd better start clamping down on all these entitlement plans so I can get some of those tax dollars back...

Without ever making the connection that those "entitlement plans" are going to benefit them, while the tax cuts will be far far away up in the mansion on the hill.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

They do. They're stupid and myopic, but they're not that stupid and myopic. Their main goal, after all, is to amass power and hold onto it. At the moment, they've amassed a ****load, but holding onto it is starting to look like it might be a bit of a problem. They're being bombarded with questions from left and right, nobody thinks that Iraq is going well, and they're actually getting nervous about mid-term elections.

Just look at how cowed their rhetoric has become in comparison to just a year ago. Look at the State of the Union address - no real initiatives, no calls to any kind of action, just a bunch of not-really-saying-anything about various domestic issues and a reiteration of the "stay the course in Iraq and everything will eventually get better" mantra. This was a placeholder speech - let's just try and keep things from totally falling apart and maybe people will stop noticing how much we've screwed up.

Quite frankly, I think they're scared ****less that this cartoon controversy might really get out of hand, or that Iran and/or Hamas might prove to be real threats. Because even if there are legitimate threats, they know that Americans simply aren't going to support anymore foreign incursions against brown people right now, and they're going to pay for it big time come November if it comes to that.

I hope you're right.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Which are all part of the same let's-screw-the-stupid-non-rich-people-out-of-their-money-because-they're-too-stupid-to-know-any-better plan.

I love how they call things like Medicare "entitlement plans." I mean, nobody likes entitlement, right? Sounds like a bunch of those dirty liberals and minorities mooching off my tax dollars! We'd better start clamping down on all these entitlement plans so I can get some of those tax dollars back...

Without ever making the connection that those "entitlement plans" are going to benefit them, while the tax cuts will be far far away up in the mansion on the hill.

esp. considering the Rx plan is nothing but corporate welfare to the highest degree. I mean the drug companies will make billions more off of this. Yes, some people will benefit from the drugs, but that is a sep. issue from the raping of the tax dollar to get there.

[SuzeQuze]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Which are all part of the same let's-screw-the-stupid-non-rich-people-out-of-their-money-because-they're-too-stupid-to-know-any-better plan.

I love how they call things like Medicare "entitlement plans." I mean, nobody likes entitlement, right? Sounds like a bunch of those dirty liberals and minorities mooching off my tax dollars! We'd better start clamping down on all these entitlement plans so I can get some of those tax dollars back...

Without ever making the connection that those "entitlement plans" are going to benefit them, while the tax cuts will be far far away up in the mansion on the hill.

Yes, this is what gets me, the populace voting against their own interests!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

Yes, this is what gets me, the populace voting against their own interests!

Well, it is a little more complicated than that. I think people drive down the street and see all the people in the projects and think - lazy so and so's don't want to work, etc. Certainly some of the people there do not want to work and are content being there. I submit they are few though. I also submit the vast majority of the people there also do not have the public education to get a job that could get them out of there, and if they did, there are only so many of those jobs to go around as opposed to the plentiful lesser paying jobs like a maid, fast food worker, etc.

In the end, I think there is vast abuse and neglect in govt. funded programs to help the less fortunate and that is a very sad thing. However, it does not mean those programs should be done away with. It means they should be fixed. For example, I still maintain Affirmative Action should go from being based on race to being based on poverty. Two things are accomplished with that change. First, over time, the concept that black people and other minorities are getting an unfair leg up will fade - people do not mind giving the poor a better shot and sadly, the majority will still be black. Secondly, it is a fairer way to distribute money IMO.

Yet, mentioning that gives the R's and the D's fuel to raise money.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, it is a little more complicated than that. I think people drive down the street and see all the people in the projects and think - lazy so and so's don't want to work, etc.

Although a lot of these "What's the matter with Kansas types?" have never been anywhere near a city large enough to have projects.

In the end, I think there is vast abuse and neglect in govt. funded programs to help the less fortunate and that is a very sad thing. However, it does not mean those programs should be done away with. It means they should be fixed. For example, I still maintain Affirmative Action should go from being based on race to being based on poverty. Two things are accomplished with that change. First, over time, the concept that black people and other minorities are getting an unfair leg up will fade - people do not mind giving the poor a better shot and sadly, the majority will still be black. Secondly, it is a fairer way to distribute money IMO.

Yet another in a string of seemingly obvious, good ideas that for one reason or another seem like they're never going to happen.

[bretonbanquet]

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

I was under the impression that such celebrations were rare. That was so awful it made me physically ill to see it.

It's important to realise that your average man-in-the-street in Iraq, Syria, Iran etc is even less well-informed than over there in the US. What they are told through their "media" may or may not bear some remote resemblance to what actually goes on in the world. Seeing people rejoicing in the street over 9/11 was hard to take, but we can only vaguely assume that they were told the true details. I also recall seeing people over there weeping when they saw the actual images on the TV. News is spread in different ways over there and is slanted so radically sometimes you wouldn't believe.

[SomeKindaMother]

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

It's important to realise that your average man-in-the-street in Iraq, Syria, Iran etc is even less well-informed than over there in the US. What they are told through their "media" may or may not bear some remote resemblance to what actually goes on in the world. Seeing people rejoicing in the street over 9/11 was hard to take, but we can only vaguely assume that they were told the true details. I also recall seeing people over there weeping when they saw the actual images on the TV. News is spread in different ways over there and is slanted so radically sometimes you wouldn't believe.

That's very true. I know how hard it is here to see actual news. I'm not making a conservative slam there either....it's more of a pop culture thing I guess. Whatever grabs the ratings. I like to watch FSTV and Link TV. They show actual (dubbed) European and Middle Eastern broadcasts. Democracy Now is interesting too. At least we have options, anyway, if we want. It sounds like those citizens can't realize any news than what is fed to them.

Kelly