Oh Daddy lyric discussion

[EveryHour]

I was re-watching the Rumours "Classic Albums" DVD last weekend, and it really got me thinking about the lyrics to Oh Daddy. I know that many of you dislike this song, but I have to agree with Mick and Stevie...this is a Christine favorite for me. It is absolutely haunting...vocally, lyrically and intrumentally. Christine's vocal is pristine, and the harmonies stunning (patricularly Stevie's as can be heard so well on the Rumours audio DVD.....GOD I love when she sings low harmony with Christine! Chills.) I know one option would have been for me to check out the Lyric Interpretations section of The Ledge, but I have to admit, that format of analyzing lyrics bores me to tears.

**As a complete and utter sidebar, I also have to mention that when they showed the clip from the Rosebud documentary of the Rumours back cover photo shoot, I suddenly noticed for the first time that Stevie's dress was a beautiful dark grey satin. It threw me for a loop because I've looked at those photos so many times and the lighting makes it appear as kind of an off-white polyester. I was always intrigued that she chose what appeared to be such a plain dress for the official photo shoot for what they clearly knew was going to be a major album. But, alas, I was wrong. It is gorgeous when you see the reality of it.**

Anyway, in the Rumours DVD, Christine and Mick both talk about how the song was written for Mick (nothing we didn't know). They mostly relate it to Mick being a father and Christine writing it from that perspective. This could make sense for some of the lyrics ("Oh daddy, you soothe me with your smile / You're letting me know you're the best thing in my life" or maybe even "I'm so weak but you're so strong"...a child viewing their father as a protector), but other than that the lyrics seem completely inappropriate for involving children. Yet some of the lyrics seem a bit extreme for Christine to be saying to Mick outside of a romantic relationship. Certainly perhaps some of them portray her allegience to Mick both as a friend and as the man who strives to keep The Mac together despite emotional turmoil ("And I can't walk away from you, baby if I tried"). Perhaps the song is many perspectives or Mick wrapped into one, but even at that I still don't know what to make of the lyrics that seem more geared toward a lover or ex-lover ("How can you love me, I don't understand why", "If there's been a fool around, it's got to be me", "Why are you right when I'm so wrong?"). Or, am I reading too much into it, and Christine just chose some of the lyrics becasue they sounded good? Though most of her songs seem to stem from something emotional or personal, I could see her being more willing to throw some things in just for the sake of "rounding out the song", than, say, Stevie who would be more insistent that every line is truth.

What do ya'll think?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I think its a combination of being about Mick and also perhaps her relationship at the time with John. Or just how she views relationships in general. This is an area where I really connect with Christine's songs...and why I love them so much. There is usually a common thread in all of her love/heartbreak songs...she comes off as sort of being the dependent individual in the relationship and "needing" the other person, doing anything she can to keep them in her life or pleasing them. I think "Oh Daddy" is a prime example of this vulnerable side of Christine.

So in part I do think it was perhaps inspired by Mick, but I think the heart of it is rooted in her views on relationships in general and/or her relationship with John.

[aleuzzi]

I don't think she had Mick in mind when she wrote it. The lyrics strike me as fairly typical Chris words. And while the "daddy" references can be taken literally, they certainly evoke a romantic dimension. Mick's comments about it are just his usual revisioning of the band's history--I think in this case to actually have some presence in the lyric drama of the songs. Lindsey wrote about Stevie, Stevie about Lindsey, Chris about John and Curry the lighting director. Maybe Mick felt left out?

I had no idea this song was disliked by many people here. How unfortunate: in many ways "Oh Daddy" is as much Chris's signature tune as "Songbird." I can't imagine Rumours without it.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I had no idea this song was disliked by many people here. How unfortunate: in many ways "Oh Daddy" is as much Chris's signature tune as "Songbird." I can't imagine Rumours without it.

I found that odd too. Most hardcore Stevie fans that I talk to, really love "Oh Daddy" and consider it Chris' best.

[macfan 57]

I think the romantic angle of the song refers to Mick and his then wife, Jenny. I believe when she's talked about the song she's referred to Mick & his family(Jenny & his 2 daughters). I think she was "stepping into their shoes", so to speak.

I wasn't aware that there were that many people that disliked the song. I think the Rumours album version is terrific. I LOVE her keyboards on the song...that soft keyboard all throughout the song, the piano crashing down & then the Hammond organ right at the end. This song always sounded great live. I thought it sounded fantastic, especially on the Dance tour.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

Anyway, in the Rumours DVD, Christine and Mick both talk about how the song was written for Mick (nothing we didn't know). They mostly relate it to Mick being a father and Christine writing it from that perspective. This could make sense for some of the lyrics ("Oh daddy, you soothe me with your smile / You're letting me know you're the best thing in my life" or maybe even "I'm so weak but you're so strong"...a child viewing their father as a protector), but other than that the lyrics seem completely inappropriate for involving children. Yet some of the lyrics seem a bit extreme for Christine to be saying to Mick outside of a romantic relationship. Certainly perhaps some of them portray her allegience to Mick both as a friend and as the man who strives to keep The Mac together despite emotional turmoil ("And I can't walk away from you, baby if I tried"). Perhaps the song is many perspectives or Mick wrapped into one, but even at that I still don't know what to make of the lyrics that seem more geared toward a lover or ex-lover ("How can you love me, I don't understand why", "If there's been a fool around, it's got to be me", "Why are you right when I'm so wrong?"). Or, am I reading too much into it, and Christine just chose some of the lyrics becasue they sounded good? Though most of her songs seem to stem from something emotional or personal, I could see her being more willing to throw some things in just for the sake of "rounding out the song", than, say, Stevie who would be more insistent that every line is truth.

What do ya'll think?

Well, I realize that I'm in the minority among Fleetwood Mac fans here, but I don't believe that pop songs fall under the category of nonfiction, so I always find it to be a bit silly and off the mark when people talk about every single lyric that Stevie/Lindsey/Christine ever wrote as being about some specific person or relationship or real-life circumstance (even when the three of them make those assertions themselves). They're songwriters, not biographers, and to me, saying, "Well, Silver Springs is about Lindsey" or "Oh, Oh Daddy is about Mick" doesn't really tell you much of anything or give you any deeper appreciation of the song, and just because Stevie/Lindsey/Christine says something is true doesn't mean it is.

Quite frankly, I don't care how many of them claim that it's about Mick being a father; they're totally full of ****. The song very obviously has nothing to do with a child-father relationship. It's about a scared and insecure woman who is in a relationship with a dominant man who seems to love her and care about her very much. The woman is desperately clinging to this relationship as the "best thing in her life," but at the same time she's undermining it because she feels she isn't worthy of the man's love ("How can you love me / I don't understand why;" "Why are you right when I'm so wrong / I'm so weak but you're so strong;" etc.). Perhaps thinking about Mick's new role as a father was Christine's starting point when she began to compose this song, but somewhere along the way she made the big jump from writing about a father-child relationship to writing about a romantic relationship that manifests itself as a kind of twisted father-daughter dynamic because the woman is so insecure; she acts like a child clinging to her father and counting on him to make everything okay.

Final note: I think it's grossly unfair to pass off this kind of songwriting as "throwing some things in just for the sake of rounding out the song" just because it's something that isn't wholly autobiographical. Lyrically, "Oh Daddy" is an incredibly tight song that does a brilliant job of conveying an entire narrative (along with both of its characters) using relatively few words. There's nothing at all "thrown in" there.

[eclipse]

Wow Jygm...are you a Psychologist?

Anyway..my thoughts on this song are simple. I do believe it is about Mick-
But, I think it is about Fleetwood Mac Mick- not Mick as a Dad, lover, friend..whatever.
During rumours he was the boss of the band...the "Daddy" so to speak, that kept all the "kids" in line and I get the feeling he helped Chris and Stevie through some difficult times, professionally. When they were heartbroken, tired, hurt, drugged out, down on themselves, and just ready to give up on the band.

I know many will argue that Lindsey was the "main guy " in the band and everyone followed what he said....I thiink that Mick admired and allowed and needed Lindsey. He possessed the creative energy that the band so dearly needed, at that time. But I still think it was Mick's band and he was the "main guy".

That said, I LOVE the version on the 2nd release of Rumours (with Stevie singing background vocals with Chris) It is not only more haunting and stronger sounding than Chris alone, I hear it as ...both of them singing an homage to Mick. I think it just to colaborate's my opinion of what Mick meant to them both...

Anyone else... And speaking of songs that don't get enough appreciation and credit for Christine...What about Sugar Daddy?? That song is great!

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by eclipse

Wow Jygm...are you a Psychologist?

No, just a student of literature.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Perhaps thinking about Mick's new role as a father was Christine's starting point when she began to compose this song, but somewhere along the way she made the big jump from writing about a father-child relationship to writing about a romantic relationship that manifests itself as a kind of twisted father-daughter dynamic because the woman is so insecure; she acts like a child clinging to her father and counting on him to make everything okay.

That's basically how I interpreted it also, though maybe not as detailed as you. I have to admit, the lyrics disturbed me at first, because I interpreted them too literally.

I don't understand how so many people can't like this song either, I love it.

Originally Posted by eclipse

During rumours he was the boss of the band...the "Daddy" so to speak, that kept all the "kids" in line and I get the feeling he helped Chris and Stevie through some difficult times, professionally.

And unprofessionally as well.

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by aleuzzi

I don't think she had Mick in mind when she wrote it.

Remember, she actually says she did in the DVD...it didn't just come from Mick.

(Although it seems like some other posters seem to think she could be lying. )

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Well, I realize that I'm in the minority among Fleetwood Mac fans here, but I don't believe that pop songs fall under the category of nonfiction, so I always find it to be a bit silly and off the mark when people talk about every single lyric that Stevie/Lindsey/Christine ever wrote as being about some specific person or relationship or real-life circumstance (even when the three of them make those assertions themselves). They're songwriters, not biographers, and to me, saying, "Well, Silver Springs is about Lindsey" or "Oh, Oh Daddy is about Mick" doesn't really tell you much of anything or give you any deeper appreciation of the song, and just because Stevie/Lindsey/Christine says something is true doesn't mean it is.

I don't think any of them have denied that truths have sometimes been embellished for the sake of a song, and I have no problem with that. It can sometimes give me an even deeper appreciation of a song that I already have a deep appreciation for...to know what someone was going through that made these lyrics coem out of them. Or if I've felt the same way or had the same experience. It's impossible for these things to NOT bring a deeper level of appreciation. Of course, they can lie about the content of a song if they choose to, but I also think that it is more often just partial truths as opposed to total lies.

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Quite frankly, I don't care how many of them claim that it's about Mick being a father; they're totally full of ****. The song very obviously has nothing to do with a child-father relationship. It's about a scared and insecure woman who is in a relationship with a dominant man who seems to love her and care about her very much. The woman is desperately clinging to this relationship as the "best thing in her life," but at the same time she's undermining it because she feels she isn't worthy of the man's love ("How can you love me / I don't understand why;" "Why are you right when I'm so wrong / I'm so weak but you're so strong;" etc.). Perhaps thinking about Mick's new role as a father was Christine's starting point when she began to compose this song, but somewhere along the way she made the big jump from writing about a father-child relationship to writing about a romantic relationship that manifests itself as a kind of twisted father-daughter dynamic because the woman is so insecure; she acts like a child clinging to her father and counting on him to make everything okay.

Interesting that this last line you wrote could still mean that Christine was clinging to Mick outside of a romantic relationship, as far as his adament desire to keep the band together and her beliving in him that it was the right thing to do. I don't really get why you felt the need to say they are "full of ****", especially when you go on to say that the starting point of the song may have indeed been a fatherly perspective. What is interesting about this song is that "Daddy" in and of itself can have so many meanings; father/daughter, vulnerable woman's view of her spouse, just referring to Mick as "daddy" simply because he was indeed a father, or *hey* it was a groovy word for men back in the day.

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Final note: I think it's grossly unfair to pass off this kind of songwriting as "throwing some things in just for the sake of rounding out the song" just because it's something that isn't wholly autobiographical. Lyrically, "Oh Daddy" is an incredibly tight song that does a brilliant job of conveying an entire narrative (along with both of its characters) using relatively few words. There's nothing at all "thrown in" there.

Perhaps "throwing in" were wrong or maybe even disrespectful words to use, but I still stand by the suggestion in general. I completely agree with you here about the greatness of the lyrics. I think a lot of song debates can stem from differences in the way people listen to music. I listen almost entirely from an emotional point of view. Don't know how to do it any other way and don't really want to. While others may may come from a more structural or logical place. As an example, I'm sure someone like Eddie Van Halen is technically a much better guitar player than Lindsey, but he makes me feel nothing. Zilch. Lindsey, on the other hand, can bend the same note for an hour if he wants (not by any means saying that's all he's capable of) and bring tears to my eyes. But that is a different thread.

[EveryHour]

Originally Posted by macfan 57

This song always sounded great live. I thought it sounded fantastic, especially on the Dance tour.

...and the Tusk Tour. Wow.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

Interesting that this last line you wrote could still mean that Christine was clinging to Mick outside of a romantic relationship, as far as his adament desire to keep the band together and her beliving in him that it was the right thing to do. I don't really get why you felt the need to say they are "full of ****", especially when you go on to say that the starting point of the song may have indeed been a fatherly perspective.

I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is...

Yes, Christine thinking about Mick as a father might very well have been the impetus for her to start writing the song, but as I said, that's very clearly not what the song is about. If you took the lyric sheet to "Oh Daddy" and showed it to a random sampling of a bunch of relatively well-educated, literate people, I can't imagine you'd have too many of them saying, "Oh, of course, this is about a father's relationship with his child."

Perhaps "throwing in" were wrong or maybe even disrespectful words to use, but I still stand by the suggestion in general. I completely agree with you here about the greatness of the lyrics. I think a lot of song debates can stem from differences in the way people listen to music. I listen almost entirely from an emotional point of view. Don't know how to do it any other way and don't really want to. While others may may come from a more structural or logical place.

Of course people listening to songs in different ways leads to different interpretations, but what we're talking about here isn't really the difference between listening emotionally and listening structurally or logically. It's the difference between listening to the song as an autonomous entity that has independent meanings, or listening to it as the product of a specific person that has a specific meaning rooted in that person's experience.

Or, more simply put, it's the age-old literary debate of "Does authorial intent matter, or is it important?" For a lot of people it is, especially when it comes to Fleetwood Mac. They're listening for the soap opera and the confessional aspects of the lyrics and tying the songs to specific persons or incidents in real life and trying to connect emotionally not just with the song but with the songwriter.

Obviously knowing more about these "real life" roots can add layers of meaning to a song, but relying on them too heavily can also severely restrict a song's meanings. In the end, while it might be an interesting little factoid that Christine says she had Mick in mind when she wrote "Oh Daddy," that really doesn't mean too much when you're looking at what the song is about. There's just not much there in the lyrics to support the claim that the song is about Mick. And there are a number of much more substantial readings of the song that have nothing at all to do with even Christine, let alone Mick.

Bottom line: For me, the emotions and meanings that I get out of a song like "Oh Daddy" have little to do with Christine. After all, what do I care about her? She's some British lady who's forty years older than I am whom I've never met. What was on her mind thirty years ago as she was putting pen to paper is really neither here nor there for me. But she did write a very beautiful and haunting song about a very conflicted young woman.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Well, I realize that I'm in the minority among Fleetwood Mac fans here, but I don't believe that pop songs fall under the category of nonfiction, so I always find it to be a bit silly and off the mark when people talk about every single lyric that Stevie/Lindsey/Christine ever wrote as being about some specific person or relationship or real-life circumstance (even when the three of them make those assertions themselves). They're songwriters, not biographers, and to me, saying, "Well, Silver Springs is about Lindsey" or "Oh, Oh Daddy is about Mick" doesn't really tell you much of anything or give you any deeper appreciation of the song, and just because Stevie/Lindsey/Christine says something is true doesn't mean it is.

Quite frankly, I don't care how many of them claim that it's about Mick being a father; they're totally full of ****. The song very obviously has nothing to do with a child-father relationship. It's about a scared and insecure woman who is in a relationship with a dominant man who seems to love her and care about her very much. The woman is desperately clinging to this relationship as the "best thing in her life," but at the same time she's undermining it because she feels she isn't worthy of the man's love ("How can you love me / I don't understand why;" "Why are you right when I'm so wrong / I'm so weak but you're so strong;" etc.). Perhaps thinking about Mick's new role as a father was Christine's starting point when she began to compose this song, but somewhere along the way she made the big jump from writing about a father-child relationship to writing about a romantic relationship that manifests itself as a kind of twisted father-daughter dynamic because the woman is so insecure; she acts like a child clinging to her father and counting on him to make everything okay.

Final note: I think it's grossly unfair to pass off this kind of songwriting as "throwing some things in just for the sake of rounding out the song" just because it's something that isn't wholly autobiographical. Lyrically, "Oh Daddy" is an incredibly tight song that does a brilliant job of conveying an entire narrative (along with both of its characters) using relatively few words. There's nothing at all "thrown in" there.

I agree with every word of this.

[aleuzzi]

Originally Posted by EveryHour

Remember, she actually says she did in the DVD...it didn't just come from Mick.

(Although it seems like some other posters seem to think she could be lying. )

Yeah, I think she's being polite to Mick here. He kinda' hijacked the song to suit his needs. Knowing this, I think she went along with his fantasy. Sounds harsh, I know, but...