Need help arguing against a gay marriage ban

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by markolas

Don't say "religion" when what you really mean is "Christianity."

Well, no. I mean pretty much all religion. I get that there are a few rouge ones out there that tolerate homosexuality, but they are in the vast minority.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by SomeKindaMother

This is a woman who lived her life in poverty, as I’m sure you know. Poverty…by choice. The *only* thing she wanted to do was care for God’s most needy people. You don’t have to believe in God to recognize that sort of dedication. You think she was an accountant? A businesswoman? An activist? No, she never claimed to be. She didn’t even want publicity for herself and took absolutely no credit for any good deed she ever did. I don’t know a thing about money given nor do I care. It doesn’t take one thing away from the good she did. You can think she should have stood up for or against whatever you want. That wasn’t what she felt her purpose was. She just wanted to help individual suffering. If you didn’t do the same, live the same, understand the inner dynamics of what was going on, then you really have little idea of what you’re talking about with your small portion of a distorted story you’ve heard/read.

I don’t intend to get into a debate with you. I have no doubt you are fully capable of tearing me, Mother Theresa, and God all to bits. You don’t revere her, fine. But the fact that you could use such vile descriptions of a person who dedicated her life to the service of others is almost beyond my comprehension. You’ve condemned her for not doing enough? Please.

Kelly

I agree. However, you have to understand Dissention - no matter how many people this woman clothed and fed and inspired, he cannot see past any faults and has an overall need to bitch about them - and I love him for it

[stargazer99]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, Alito in his first vote voted to stay an execution, which is hardly a conservative position. In fact, he broke rank with Scalia, Thomas, and Roberts, which hopefully is a good sign.

I about fell off my chair when I first heard this! For one brief, fleeting moment, I actually thought to myself "Maybe there is a god afterall..."

Based on his past record, though, I'm not holding my breath that this trend will continue.

[amber]

Originally Posted by SomeKindaMother

I. But the fact that you could use such vile descriptions of a person who dedicated her life to the service of others is almost beyond my comprehension. You’ve condemned her for not doing enough? Please.

Kelly

I'm no expert, but I believe he condemned her for taking millions of dollars in donations ostensibly to help people in India, but really it was funnelled into missionary work in Africa through the Vatican. In other words, if that is true, she lied, lied, stole. Is it still really being of service to someone if you are simultaneously stealing from them and duping the donors who wanted to help?
So, what is her "service to others" ? Are you speaking of her service to the Vatican? Because it looks like that's who she was really "helping".
He wasn't saying she didn't do enough, he was saying she did wrong - ie lie, cheat, and steal, which she did in the guise of religious faith.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by amber

I'm no expert, but I believe he condemned her for taking millions of dollars in donations ostensibly to help people in India, but really it was funnelled into missionary work in Africa through the Vatican. In other words, if that is true, she lied, lied, stole. Is it still really being of service to someone if you are simultaneously stealing from them and duping the donors who wanted to help?
So, what is her "service to others" ? Are you speaking of her service to the Vatican? Because it looks like that's who she was really "helping".
He wasn't saying she didn't do enough, he was saying she did wrong - ie lie, cheat, and steal, which she did in the guise of religious faith.

Oh dear lord amber...don't bring this back up! Josh seems to be gone...for a whole 24 hours...can we enjoy...PLEASE?!?!

[amber]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Oh dear lord amber...don't bring this back up! Josh seems to be gone...for a whole 24 hours...can we enjoy...PLEASE?!?!

Enjoy what? Your posts?!

I like when Josh is here. And I can bring up anything I want, tool.

[SomeKindaMother]

Originally Posted by amber

I'm no expert, but I believe he condemned her for taking millions of dollars in donations ostensibly to help people in India, but really it was funnelled into missionary work in Africa through the Vatican. In other words, if that is true, she lied, lied, stole. Is it still really being of service to someone if you are simultaneously stealing from them and duping the donors who wanted to help?
So, what is her "service to others" ? Are you speaking of her service to the Vatican? Because it looks like that's who she was really "helping".
He wasn't saying she didn't do enough, he was saying she did wrong - ie lie, cheat, and steal, which she did in the guise of religious faith.

I understand what was upsetting to him, but my point is the she didn’t ‘take’ anything. She lived in poverty for crying out loud. If people gave money in her name and it was “misused” by the powers that be, then that is a separate issue from her ‘person’. She didn’t campaign for anything. She simply led a beautiful life in service to plagued people that others wouldn’t even touch. I mean she cleaned them....she didn’t just read to them. Sick, stinking people with oozing sores. She did the most disgusting of chores that I’ll bet most of us couldn’t stomach. She let dying people know love and compassion. Her extraordinarily loving and selfless acts are what got her noticed by people. Many of those wanted to donate money. If you believe her name was capitalized on, that’s a separate issue…one which I have no information on or inclination to gather. I personally know someone who went to Mother Theresa’s missions on several occasions to help with the poor and sick. These places *where she lived* are disease ridden and not for the faint of heart. I didn’t try to get you to believe in God, or that Mother Theresa is a saint. You may believe the Vatican, or even all religion is corrupt, but I certainly don’t know where you think you have evidence to vilify her as an individual.

By the way, I think you misunderstood my comment about her being condemned for not doing enough. All the good she obviously did, according to the account I was responding to, not only doesn’t matter, but deems her worthy of condemnation because she didn’t personally account for money people donated to some charity in her name, contact the proper authorities to make sure it all went to the designers, architects, etc. And in her spare time she should have taken on politics. All the woman ever wanted to do was care for those considered worthless and untouchable by the masses. Yeah, a real witch all right. I am really trying to make a valid point…not to be disagreeable for its own sake.


“We can do no great things, only small things with great love.” –Mother Theresa


Kelly ....who believes in birth control and is pro choice, pro marriage for all, and still can see past my beliefs to hers....and the phenomenal good in this beautiful woman. She actually lived her beliefs. How many of us can say that?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by SomeKindaMother

“We can do no great things, only small things with great love.” –Mother Theresa

Do you happen to listen to Sara Groves?

[SomeKindaMother]

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Do you happen to listen to Sara Groves?

No I don't. I think I've heard of her though. Does she have lyrics with Mother Theresa's quote?

Kelly

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Originally Posted by SomeKindaMother

No I don't. I think I've heard of her though. Does she have lyrics with Mother Theresa's quote?

Kelly

She was inspired to write the song "Add to the Beauty" by that very same Mother Teresa quote...which also became the name of her new album and the overall theme of the album. The quote is placed inside the CD booklet! I was just wondering if you listened to her at all...because it was odd that you chose that quote.

www.saragroves.com

you can listen to some of "Add to The Beauty" at her site.

[markolas]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, no. I mean pretty much all religion. I get that there are a few rouge ones out there that tolerate homosexuality, but they are in the vast minority.

I'm starting to understand how DrummerDeanna felt.

[markolas]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, Alito in his first vote voted to stay an execution, which is hardly a conservative position. In fact, he broke rank with Scalia, Thomas, and Roberts, which hopefully is a good sign.

When was this? Must've been in his first day on the job.

[Sugar]

Originally Posted by RavenOfRhiannon

Here is a letter I wrote in 2004 that was published in my local paper:

The other day at the Alliance Hospital, 225 concerned citizens prayed together. That day 1,370 people were murdered in the United States, 86,400 women suffered from acts of domestic violence, 47 people died as a result of alcohol related incidents, and 225 people ‘concerned citizens’ prayed together.
These concerned citizens did not pray for the murder victim’s families. These concerned citizens did not pray for the abused women. These concerned citizens did not pray for the families of the drunken driving victims.
They gathered to pray for the United States Senate to pass the Federal Marriage Amendment.

I remember when you wrote this. I especially like this beginning.

[amber]

Originally Posted by SomeKindaMother

I understand what was upsetting to him, but my point is the she didn’t ‘take’ anything. She lived in poverty for crying out loud. If people gave money in her name and it was “misused” by the powers that be, then that is a separate issue from her ‘person’. She didn’t campaign for anything. She simply led a beautiful life in service to plagued people that others wouldn’t even touch. I mean she cleaned them....she didn’t just read to them. Sick, stinking people with oozing sores. She did the most disgusting of chores that I’ll bet most of us couldn’t stomach. She let dying people know love and compassion. Her extraordinarily loving and selfless acts are what got her noticed by people. Many of those wanted to donate money. If you believe her name was capitalized on, that’s a separate issue…one which I have no information on or inclination to gather. I personally know someone who went to Mother Theresa’s missions on several occasions to help with the poor and sick. These places *where she lived* are disease ridden and not for the faint of heart. I didn’t try to get you to believe in God, or that Mother Theresa is a saint. You may believe the Vatican, or even all religion is corrupt, but I certainly don’t know where you think you have evidence to vilify her as an individual.

By the way, I think you misunderstood my comment about her being condemned for not doing enough. All the good she obviously did, according to the account I was responding to, not only doesn’t matter, but deems her worthy of condemnation because she didn’t personally account for money people donated to some charity in her name, contact the proper authorities to make sure it all went to the designers, architects, etc. And in her spare time she should have taken on politics. All the woman ever wanted to do was care for those considered worthless and untouchable by the masses. Yeah, a real witch all right. I am really trying to make a valid point…not to be disagreeable for its own sake.


“We can do no great things, only small things with great love.” –Mother Theresa


Kelly ....who believes in birth control and is pro choice, pro marriage for all, and still can see past my beliefs to hers....and the phenomenal good in this beautiful woman. She actually lived her beliefs. How many of us can say that?

She lived in poverty, but she worked for the Vatican. It's not random higher ups, and it's not that she didn't know where the money went and had no control over it - she had strong religious beliefs, and so she condoned the Vatican taking money from people under false pretenses, in her name, and using it for missionary work instead of what the donors had actually donated it for. (India).
Missionary work is to get poeple in other countries (Africa) christianized. The practice in itself is abhorrent, but when you lie about it, that makes it worse. And when you take money for it in your name, from people who donated that money for India, and don't tell them what it's used for, that is double worse. Christianization is not necessary for any third world countries, food and shelter and education is.
She can have lived her entire life in a cardboard box, or under my nosehairs for all I care - the point is still that she lied for her faith, or helped others to lie about donations. And the money went to the Vatican for christ's sake - correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Vatican immensely wealthy already?
Great, she administered to the sick and poor. Curtis and Paula do that every day, too, but they haven't been nominated for sainthood. I get that she helped and comforted people, but the basis of lies leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

If you have no information about people who "capitalized" on her name, and no inclination to gather any, then how can you possibly contend that she is blameless? You only know one side as it stands right now.

[snowman]

Biologically speaking - one of the primary purposes for any species (plant or animal) to exist on this earth, is to pro-create- pass on it's off spring so the species will survive. If the ability to pro-create is hindered or stopped, the species becomes endangered or extinct.

So biologically speaking - if gay marriage were sanctioned as a viable, recognized, mainstream institution, then in theory, the human species could become endangered or extinct due to the simple fact that gay marriages do not allow the human species to pro-create/pass on offspring.