Need help arguing against a gay marriage ban - Page 3

Brwn_eyes0511 · #31 02-02-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, no they do not. Again, the Catholic Church convinced people that being gay means you are ped., which is just untrue. So, yes, the Church is not Jimmy Swaggert saying he would punch any gay guy who came onto him, but that is a distinction without a difference to these eyes

Yes, I suppose you are right...

I guess I just have a soft spot for some Catholics, as it is all that I know.

strandinthewind · #32 02-02-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

Yes, I suppose you are right...

I guess I just have a soft spot for some Catholics, as it is all that I know.

Oh - don't get me wrong, the Church has done so many wonderful things and inspired billions. I think overall it is a good is not great organization, despite the blemishes I am harping on here. A good example is Mother Theresa - some, including me, call her a saint - others blame her for millions of unwanted pregnancies and endless suffering because she refused to advocate birth control in India. I think the good she did more than outweighes that.

dissention · #33 02-02-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

A good example is Mother Theresa - some, including me, call her a saint - others blame her for millions of unwanted pregnancies and endless suffering because she refused to advocate birth control in India. I think the good she did more than outweighes that.

Don't make me laugh.

strandinthewind · #34 02-02-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Don't make me laugh.

laugh at the idea that people despise her for that or laugh at that fact that I think the good she did outweighed that?

On edit - yes, I think she should have advocated birth control.

Also, within the Catholic definition of that word (a holy person who is exceptional in their faith) - she was just that, regardless of lay opinion.

dissention · #35 02-02-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

laugh at the idea that people despise her for that or laugh at that fact that I think the good she did outweighed that?

Laugh at the fact that you consider that wench to be a "saint."

Sugar · #36 02-02-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

^^

The only Constitutional issues I see are

1. promoting one religion over the other violates the anti-establishment clause -

2. arguably, due process/equal protection is being violated because not all people can get the same rights - though homosexuals are not a suspect class (which is harder to discrimminate against) and homosexuals can marry women, though they chose not to, etc.

Finally, the Full Faith and Credit clause pretty much overrides the DOMA - and another state will be forced to accept a sister state's definition of marriage.

Good stuff, Jason. Thanks.

I'm going to be actively arguing with folks who are going to want us to support the ban, and I'm only going to get one shot at this so the more ammo I have the better. Thanks...all of you...for helping me to cover all the bases.

strandinthewind · #37 02-02-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Laugh at the fact that you consider that wench to be a "saint."

She did do so much good for so many. In fact, exponentially far more than you or I will ever do

So, yes, though she is a human being and had faults, she was as good as she could have been in her faith and billions were better for it. But, I know I know - night day - black white - hot cold - etc. - and I love ya for it

strandinthewind · #38 02-02-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar

Good stuff, Jason. Thanks.

I'm going to be actively arguing with folks who are going to want us to support the ban, and I'm only going to get one shot at this so the more ammo I have the better. Thanks...all of you...for helping me to cover all the bases.

You are more than welcome. Again, in the end, the sole question is is it right for the govt. to push the majorities concept of religious marriage on the minority. The answer must be no because this country was founded on religious tolerance after years of persecution abroad, which lead to the lang. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ... .” - here is fairly cool site http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/...ent/index.aspx

GOOD LUCK!!!!

dissention · #39 02-02-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

She did do so much good for so many. In fact, exponentially far more than you or I will ever do

So, yes, though she is a human being and had faults, she was as good as she could have been in her faith and billions were better for it. But, I know I know - night day - black white - hot cold - etc. - and I love ya for it

Methinks you don't know all that much about that little witch other than what's been regurgitated in the mainstream press about her supposed "good deeds." She's proof positive that religion is what's been wrong with this world since day one. Paint it whatever color you want, but I'm not about to fawn over a single thing that she did.

strandinthewind · #40 02-02-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Methinks you don't know all that much about that little witch other than what's been regurgitated in the mainstream press about her supposed "good deeds." She's proof positive that religion is what's been wrong with this world since day one. Paint it whatever color you want, but I'm not about to fawn over a single thing that she did.

I knew a Sister who worked in her organization and knew her.

But, I guess you are correct, she never tended to the sick, clothed and fed the poor, and inspired no one

Now, if you want to say religion is a bad thing and through that she hurt people, sure she did.

I am not a fan of wiki - but his is pretty good and seemingly a fair and balanced portrayal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mo...eresa/Archive3

dissention · #41 02-02-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I knew a Sister who worked in her organization and knew her.

That's nice. Your point?

Quote:

But, I guess you are correct, she never tended to the sick, clothed and fed the poor, and inspired no one

We're talking about the stout little witch that praised Gandhi after he suspended civil liberties in India in the mid-seventies. The same witch that took millions upon millons of dollars from people via donations and never once built a single hospital in India, instead her and the Vatican funneled it to missionary work in Africa, while telling the people who donated the money that it was going to build health care facilities in India. I can go on and on if you'd like me to.

Quote:

Now, if you want to say religion is a bad thing and through that she hurt people, sure she did.

She sure did.

dissention · #42 02-02-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I am not a fan of wiki - but his is pretty good and seemingly a fair and balanced portrayal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mo...eresa/Archive3

Ha! Bless his heart, Mother Teresa is about the only thing I'll ever really agree with Christopher Hitchens on.

How anyone can call that witch a saint is beyond my comprehension.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #43 02-02-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Laugh at the fact that you consider that wench to be a "saint."

And I wonder why am I considered the soulless one after such comments as the one above.

dissention · #44 02-02-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

And I wonder why am I considered the soulless one after such comments as the one above.

Why? Because you seemingly have no respect for the plights of other people who don't live lives that are as advantageous as your own, as demonstrated by the numerous stements you've made in the past, while probably holding that witch in as high regard as Jason. Show me the hospitals she was supposed to build with all the money that she took. Explain to me why she was praising the state of India after it was stripped of civil liberties. Explain to me why people received such disgusting medical care even though it's estimated that hundreds of millions were donated. Explain to me what she meant when she said that the world is being helped by poor people suffering and accepting it.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #45 02-02-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Why? Because you seemingly have no respect for the plights of other people who don't live lives that are as advantageous as your own,

Oh Josh please get off that high horse you are on.

What have YOU done to better the world? What have you done that helps you sleep well at night? In your nice, comfortable bed...in your nice warm apartment...and other times sitting in front of your computer day in and day out. Sell the bitch, donate the money to what you consider a worthy charity and go live in a box on the streets somewhere...